HDMI ARC

[3db]

Is HDMI ARC a standard implementation....you get out of it from an audio perspective what is sent to the device input?

 

[lovinthehd]

HDMI ARC is limited to lossy codecs, it won't pass the lossless codecs. Pretty much the same as using an optical cable as far as audio goes...plus some tv's don't pass but 2.0 for audio output, but can be specific source dependent (like OTA content may be 5.1 but from hdmi inputs to tv only 2.0), altho this seems to have improved somewhat over the last several years. Also ARC may do funny things depending on brand of avr/tv as to things like always changing the input on the avr to "tv" instead of what you want (like cbl/sat etc). YMMV in other words

 

[3db]

HDMI ARC is limited to lossy codecs, it won't pass the lossless codecs. Pretty much the same as using an optical cable as far as audio goes...plus some tv's don't pass but 2.0 for audio output, but can be specific source dependent (like OTA content may be 5.1 but from hdmi inputs to tv only 2.0), altho this seems to have improved somewhat over the last several years. Also ARC may do funny things depending on brand of avr/tv as to things like always changing the input on the avr to "tv" instead of what you want (like cbl/sat etc). YMMV in other words

Thanks. Im using HDMI ARC from my Sony 4K player and it does pass the lossless codec to my AVR. I wonder if my Samsung UN65KU6491 would pass it.

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks. Im using HDMI ARC from my Sony 4K player and it does pass the lossless codec to my AVR. I wonder if my Samsung UN65KU6491 would pass it.

What lossless codec are you getting via ARC? How is a 4k player involved with ARC from the tv? You're not using an avr for the audio directly via hdmi?

 

[3db]

What lossless codec are you getting via ARC? How is a 4k player involved with ARC from the tv? You're not using an avr for the audio directly via hdmi?

DTS MASTER . The Sony 4K player had two HDMI outputs, one of them being ARC. The first HDMI gets connected directly to the display, the second to the AVR. This is for my second system. Both my AVRs are older and limited to 1080P and cannot be used to route 4K video. My primary system has the 4K upscaling BluRay player and a 4K PVR with both of these devices having only one HDMI output. That's why I'm hoping my display equipped with ARC will behave similarly to my 4K player in passing back lossless signals.

 

[lovinthehd]

DTS MASTER . The Sony 4K player had two HDMI outputs, one of them being ARC. The first HDMI gets connected directly to the display, the second to the AVR. This is for my second system. Both my AVRs are older and limited to 1080P and cannot be used to route 4K video. My primary system has the 4K upscaling BluRay player and a 4K PVR with both of these devices having only one HDMI output. That's why I'm hoping my display equipped with ARC will behave similarly to my 4K player in passing back lossless signals.

Your avr is simply getting the audio via hdmi from your player it seems, not ARC. ARC is specifically the audio coming back from the display to the avr over a single hdmi cable. It is limited to lossy codecs simply due bandwidth. This article seems to have the pros and cons down.

 

[3db]

Your avr is simply getting the audio via hdmi from your player it seems, not ARC. ARC is specifically the audio coming back from the display to the avr over a single hdmi cable. It is limited to lossy codecs simply due bandwidth. This article seems to have the pros and cons down.

I think your right that the 2nd HDMI on the player is nor ARC but just an additional HDMI connection that passes the same audio codecs as the 1st HDMI . I went thru the setup menu on the Sammy display and there is no way where I can configure the display to output sound through the HDMI ARC port. Thanks for letting be bounce this off of you.

 

[lovinthehd]

I think your right that the 2nd HDMI on the player is nor ARC but just an additional HDMI connection that passes the same audio codecs as the 1st HDMI . I went thru the setup menu on the Sammy display and there is no way where I can configure the display to output sound through the HDMI ARC port. Thanks for letting be bounce this off of you.

Your tv should be ARC capable, on my Samsung it's in the Anynet+ (HDMI-CEC) you'd need to enable ARC with (as well as a similar hdmi-cec setting in your avr, if your avr is ARC capable, needs HDMI 1.4 I think)
.

 

[3db]

Since my AVRs are NOT ARC capable, I cannot use the ARC facility on my Sammy. The question then comes down to personal choice. Do I set up my system so that I get the benefits of 4K from the PVR and 4K upscaling Blu Ray player at the expense of using lossy codecs via the optical cable out from the display or do I let the Sammy upscale to 4K from the PVR and BluRay player and retain the lossless audio codecs. That is the question (move over Shakespeare. your question has been made mundane )

I'm leaning to option2 because I don't believe there is much in the way of 4K broadcasts in my neck of the woods here in Ottawa. I also like what I'm seeing from the display in my current configuration.

Just to add more to the choice confusion, I don't detect a noticeable difference between lossy and the lossless audio codecs.

paralysis by analysis

 

[lovinthehd]

I guess that depends on if you lean more as audio vs video phile. I agree, often with the lossless codec it's not a huge difference but depends

 

[PENG]

I guess that depends on if you lean more as audio vs video phile. I agree, often with the lossless codec it's not a huge difference but depends

My issue with ARC is that it can't do discrete multi channel. Say if the source it DD, you will get Dolby PLIIx, but not Dolby digital discrete or DTS discrete. So for my PS4 pro, I use ARC because for games I don't care. For 4K video, movies etc., I tried ARC on my smart TV but for reasons I mentioned, I prefer to use the optical out and I can get Digital digital or Dolby digital plus mult channel discrete.

If 3 dB's Samsung have digital out or Optical out, that's the way to go. For Blu Ray player, I assume most have two HDMI ports so there should be no issues.

 

[lovinthehd]

My issue with ARC is that it can't do discrete multi channel. Say if the source it DD, you will get Dolby PLIIx, but not Dolby digital discrete or DTS discrete. So for my PS4 pro, I use ARC because for games I don't care. For 4K video, movies etc., I tried ARC on my smart TV but for reasons I mentioned, I prefer to use the optical out and I can get Digital digital or Dolby digital plus mult channel discrete.

If 3 dB's Samsung have digital out or Optical out, that's the way to go. For Blu Ray player, I assume most have two HDMI ports so there should be no issues.

Dolby PLIIx would indicate you're applying a sound mode than something you're getting...could be 2.0 even. ARC can do DD or DTS 5.1 tho.

How are you doing ARC with a PS4 and your tv?

 

[PENG]

Dolby PLIIx would indicate you're applying a sound mode than something you're getting...could be 2.0 even. ARC can do DD or DTS 5.1 tho.

How are you doing ARC with a PS4 and your tv?

Are you sure, I have quite a few devices and ARC on all of them are limited to DD/DTS in 2.1, as soon as you go with 5.1 or 7.1, prologic takes over. That's why I have to use the optical output from the TV.

With the PS4, I connect it's one and only HDMI out to my Sony 65X900E that is connected to the AV8801 via optical for audio, DD or DTS 5.1/7.1 discrete is not available due to the ARC connection. As soon as I turn on the PS4, it automatically turn on the AV8801, I know it sounds confusing, seems like the ARC is working indirectly in this case. I could, and had tried in the past connecting the TV ARC directly to the AVP, but no DD/DTS 5.1/7.1. When I got the new TV I was hoping ARC has improved to pass MCH discrete, but the manual clearly stated that ARC only pass DD/DTS 2.1.

Which device is doing 5.1 discrete for you via ARC?

 

[TechHDS]

ARC, through HDMI, will act up or cause your AVR, Pre-Pro processor to do things you may or may Not want or like it to do. The only reason I have used ARC through HDMI, was cause I use the tuner on the TV no cable or SAT. I use the Optical out on the TV to my AVR only. Antenna man I am. Hey!, think I just created a new superhero? Antennae man!
Sure Marvel could use another superhero.

 

[lovinthehd]

Are you sure, I have quite a few devices and ARC on all of them are limited to DD/DTS in 2.1, as soon as you go with 5.1 or 7.1, prologic takes over. That's why I have to use the optical output from the TV.

With the PS4, I connect it's one and only HDMI out to my Sony 65X900E that is connected to the AV8801 via optical for audio, DD or DTS 5.1/7.1 discrete is not available due to the ARC connection. As soon as I turn on the PS4, it automatically turn on the AV8801, I know it sounds confusing, seems like the ARC is working indirectly in this case. I could, and had tried in the past connecting the TV ARC directly to the AVP, but no DD/DTS 5.1/7.1. When I got the new TV I was hoping ARC has improved to pass MCH discrete, but the manual clearly stated that ARC only pass DD/DTS 2.1.

Which device is doing 5.1 discrete for you via ARC?

Many TVs will only provide 2.0 via ARC (don't believe there is any such thing as 2.1 DD), and sounds like you have yours set to use the Dolby PLIIx sound mode to expand 2.0 content. ARC is capable of lossy DD/DTS; in my setup my tv is capable of 5.1 OTA but only 2.0 from on board apps (and when I tried an hdmi feed to the tv that was also only output as 2.0 via ARC), but I don't use my tv as source these days at all anyways plus ARC likes to change my input to "tv" when enabled. ARC doesn't have the bandwidth for lossless codecs like Dolby TrueHD or DTS MA-HD, tho. ARC would be only tv back to avr in any case rather than a player/game console (maybe exception would be something with a full pre-amp section like the Oppo?).

 

[PENG]

Many TVs will only provide 2.0 via ARC (don't believe there is any such thing as 2.1 DD), and sounds like you have yours set to use the Dolby PLIIx sound mode to expand 2.0 content. ARC is capable of lossy DD/DTS; in my setup my tv is capable of 5.1 OTA but only 2.0 from on board apps (and when I tried an hdmi feed to the tv that was also only output as 2.0 via ARC), but I don't use my tv as source these days at all anyways plus ARC likes to change my input to "tv" when enabled. ARC doesn't have the bandwidth for lossless codecs like Dolby TrueHD or DTS MA-HD, tho. ARC would be only tv back to avr in any case rather than a player/game console (maybe exception would be something with a full pre-amp section like the Oppo?).

Thank you, I guess I should have avoided saying DD2.0 or DD2.1 because DD implies multichannel > 2. I did so because as I said before, in the manual, Sony stated two channel only, below is a snapshot from page 18 of the X900E's manual:

Note that under ARC, it says "Two channel" but still refer to DD, DD+, DTS. So if there is no such thing as two channel DD (I am not sure about that but assume you are right for now) then either I misunderstood that part of the manual or Sony stated it wrong. Or they did it like that in this case because the source is in fact DD, DD+, DTS, the number of channels simply got reduced via ARC. Anyway, it is just terminologies..

Yes, of course I selected Dolby PLIIx by choice, otherwise I would end up with the 2.0/2.1 stereo downgraded from 5.1 via the ARC HDMI port. Just in case though, I will try using the ARC port HDMI IN3 direct to the AVP, to confirm if it is in fact limited to 2.0. I know it was the case with my Kuro Elite, but the Sony is a 2017/18 model so I should give it a try in case I misunderstood the manual.

 

[lovinthehd]

@PENG Yes there is 2.0 DD, just not 2.1. If you were expanding 5.1 DD to 7.1 then PLIIx makes sense. Your tv just may do 5.1, tho.

 

[3db]

Seems to me that ARC has never been thought out properly. I think most of us would expect that ARC should carry back jn audio, exactly what is being fed to it at the input. This is pure and utter BS. Im holding out hope that companies such as Sony who provided a second HDMI out which is purely audio will become more prevalent and adopted by other companies. I'm not holding my breath on this but it would be nice if they did.

 

[TechHDS]

Seems to me that ARC has never been thought out properly. I think most of us would expect that ARC should carry back jn audio, exactly what is being fed to it at the input. This is pure and utter BS. Im holding out hope that companies such as Sony who provided a second HDMI out which is purely audio will become more prevalent and adopted by other companies. I'm not holding my breath on this but it would be nice if they did.

My Son and I where just talking about ARC with some of the problems that can cause. Like that annoying sound bar that comes across the screen at the bottom when using the TV remote, in my HDTV manual it does say that CEC, ARC, May not be compatible with some other manufacturers gear. Did like that I could raise or lower the volume with just a TV remote, I disabled CEC and ARC only use the Optical out from TV to AVR. They really didn't think that CEC, ARC through.

 

[3db]

I've decided to redo the connections from the PVR to TV and take advantage of 4K video (when/if I get the broadcasts) and use the lossy Dolby Digital/DTS from the TV optical out. I will retain the BluRay player connection as is to maintain using the lossless codecs for Blurays and use the 4K upconverting on the display.