Volume...room filling? not just turning up the dial, after new AVR

[lovinthehd]

Also notice that just turning 'on' the subwoofer adj. it sets it at +4db. Indicates 0.

Not sure what you mean by this. When you went to look at sub level, it was set to +4 by Audyssey? What does "indicates 0" refer to?

ps Have you tried using Bypass L/R as well as Audyssey and Audyssey Flat modes to compare?

 

[-Jim-]

I'm going to suggest you need to nail down the setup with Audyssey, and ensure you follow the directions precisely from the receiver manual. (Particularly in regards to Sub set-up. You can adjust off of the Sub settings later .) At reasonable output (think volume levels), that Denon should give you full frequency, and the speakers should output a reasonable reproduction of what the artist, and recording engineer / producer, were after when they recorded the CD. Sirius will never get there. For some folks it's great for in the car, or background music; but not a serious audiophile. (No pun intended )

Have you tried you favorite Band or Artist on a concert BluRay via DTS Master HD or Dolby TrueHD? Try that at you favorite volume level after the Audyssey reset, and if you aren't impressed, I'd be shocked. Good source material makes a world of difference.

Just as we suggested you move the couch, speakers, etc., unless you adjust them further the room itself impacts the sound reproduction immensely. That includes furniture, rugs, draperies, carpets, etc. Moving the prime listening position a few feet also can impact sound significantly. Even pulling the Fronts a foot or so away from the wall could make a huge difference.

Of course esthetics can come into play, and the ever present WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) most of us have to deal with can limit placement and movement of furniture. So just as the Room itself can cause compromises in sound, that too does the same.

Keep us posted how you make out.

 

[ErrorUnknown]

Not sure what you mean by this. When you went to look at sub level, it was set to +4 by Audyssey? What does "indicates 0" refer to?

ps Have you tried using Bypass L/R as well as Audyssey and Audyssey Flat modes to compare?

It seems that just the act of turning the Audio/Subwoofer Level/ Adjustment=ON, turns the sub up by 4db.
That is with the sub level adj set at 0.
Also seems similar with the Tone Adjustment just not as extreme.
Did play with bypass and L/R and Flat...like Reference the best.

I'm going to suggest you need to nail down the setup with Audyssey, and ensure you follow the directions precisely from the receiver manual. (Particularly in regards to Sub set-up. You can adjust off of the Sub settings later .) At reasonable output (think volume levels), that Denon should give you full frequency, and the speakers should output a reasonable reproduction of what the artist, and recording engineer / producer, were after when they recorded the CD. Sirius will never get there. For some folks it's great for in the car, or background music; but not a serious audiophile. (No pun intended )

Have you tried you favorite Band or Artist on a concert BluRay via DTS Master HD or Dolby TrueHD? Try that at you favorite volume level after the Audyssey reset, and if you aren't impressed, I'd be shocked. Good source material makes a world of difference.

Just as we suggested you move the couch, speakers, etc., unless you adjust them further the room itself impacts the sound reproduction immensely. That includes furniture, rugs, draperies, carpets, etc. Moving the prime listening position a few feet also can impact sound significantly. Even pulling the Fronts a foot or so away from the wall could make a huge difference.

Of course esthetics can come into play, and the ever present WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) most of us have to deal with can limit placement and movement of furniture. So just as the Room itself can cause compromises in sound, that too does the same.

Keep us posted how you make out.

Hooked up the old CD player and its definitely better than Sirius.

I guess my 'frequency' shift was not imagined, Audyssey had set the cross overs to 40hz.
Did not notice this as much at lower volume but when I turned it up it was not good. Got really harsh.
Set back to 80hz and its much better.
Audyssey set to sub 2ft closer than it was, seems odd as reading on this forum...I thought it set it to further away with Audyssey.

Here is how it ended up...
Tone Control=ON
Bass=0
Treble=0

Setup
Amp Assign
Assign Mode=Front B

Crossovers/all=80hz

Bass
Subwoofer Mode=LFE
LPF for LFE=120hz

Front Speaker=A+B

Audio
Restorer
Mode=Medium

Subwoofer Level
Adjustment=ON
Level=0

Nice spell checking on this site...not sure I know how to anymore...

 

[lovinthehd]

So the +4 subwoofer was the level set by Audyssey? Then you turned it down to 0 (lowering it by 4dB)?

The restorer may help with low bitrate mp3s but I'd turn it off for normal content (records, high bit rate mp3s, cds, etc)

 

[ErrorUnknown]

So the +4 subwoofer was the level set by Audyssey? Then you turned it down to 0 (lowering it by 4dB)?

The restorer may help with low bitrate mp3s but I'd turn it off for normal content (records, high bit rate mp3s, cds, etc)

Not related to Audyssey ...as far as I can tell.
Just the act of turning the 'Subwoofer Level' 'Adjustment' to 'ON' increases the level +4db...as I can hear it with my ears.
The LEVEL is set to ZERO.

If I turn the 'Subwoofer Level' 'Adjustment' to 'OFF' it decreases the sound -4db...according to my ears.
Still set at ZERO.

Not sure how to explain it any clearer.

Was really just an observation I was making... the 'TONE' 'ON/OFF' is similar but less pronounced.

 

[lovinthehd]

If you ran the Audyssey calibration, as I think you said you did, it will set sub level (and where on the scale pretty much depends where you set gain on your sub). So when you access the subwoofer level information it would be where Audyssey set it unless you change it. Now you're saying you can precisely tell a 4dB boost in sub level with your ears? How/where exactly in the setup menu are you accessing "subwoofer level adjustment"?

 

[ErrorUnknown]

If you ran the Audyssey calibration, as I think you said you did, it will set sub level (and where on the scale pretty much depends where you set gain on your sub). So when you access the subwoofer level information it would be where Audyssey set it unless you change it. Now you're saying you can precisely tell a 4dB boost in sub level with your ears? How/where exactly in the setup menu are you accessing "subwoofer level adjustment"?

By listening to the difference when switching from a -4db setting, when turning it 'on' and then 'off'.
Sorry, I imagine it would help some if I could type in full sentences...Instead of thought processes. Doh!

Had the Subwoofer set all straight up/middle setting. Pic is not how it was set...just a reference pic of the Sub settings.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Ok, I’ve been trying to follow. Is there an actual +/-4db switch somewhere? On the sub, or in a menu? I don’t know what subwoofer level adjustment “on” means. Not a setting I’ve seen before.

 

[lovinthehd]

First thing, when using the avr for bass management, without seeing your sub manual just turn your low pass filter (labeled sub cut-off frequency) to max value rather than the middle as it is set in the picture (the sub may automatically do this internally when it has a dedicated LFE input but I don't see that indication on the low level input, but to be safe max it out). Otherwise you're combining the low pass filter from the avr with that within the sub.

So you're in the audio menu > subwoofer level > adjustment off as pictured above, with the sub set to -4 dB (assuming this is where Audyssey set sub level), then when you switch it to "on" the scale changes to "0"? Or do you hear something just by changing the adjustment to on?

Is Audyssey engaged at this point or is it off or set to manual graphic eq?

My Denon in this particular audio adjustment menu also has a subwoofer level (separate from the general place to set speaker and sub levels in the speakers sub-menu) but no on/off adjustment, it just shows current sub level and allows you to change it on the fly so to speak. Your manual just indicates you have to turn on the ability to change it (which is probably good, would prevent accidental changes which can be fairly easy on mine).

 

[KEW]

Ok, I’ve been trying to follow. Is there an actual +/-4db switch somewhere? On the sub, or in a menu? I don’t know what subwoofer level adjustment “on” means. Not a setting I’ve seen before.

It was in his last picture. It looks like the Audyssey level matching routine adjusted his sub to -4dB (relative to where the had the gain/volume set when he ran Audyssey).

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

It was in his last picture. It looks like the Audyssey level matching routine adjusted his sub to -4dB (relative to where the had the gain/volume set when he ran Audyssey).

Thanks Kurt. After reading Chris’s reply, it makes sense. The “on the fly” capability is something I have too, but without the ability to select on/off. Mine also returns back to where it is set in the settings after the unit is powered down. That’s a good thing lol.

 

[ErrorUnknown]

The same 4db change is occurring with the Audyssey MULTEQ XT in 'Reference' or 'OFF'.
Don't think its the Audyssey. I could reset back to factory and check...

Just the act of turning the Subwoofer Level>Adjustment> 'ON' increases the level +4db...as I can HEAR it with my EARS.
The LEVEL/scale is set to ZERO.
If I turn the 'Subwoofer Level' 'Adjustment' to 'OFF' it decreases the sound -4db...according to my EARS.
Scale still set at ZERO.

In order to hear this I set it at -4db. Then turned it 'on' and 'off' and there was no change to the sound HEARD. Like I tried to show in that last pic.

Really just seems to be how this receiver works...as far as I can tell.
Not any kind of problem that I have with it, just explaining it I guess.
Was just an observation I made pushing buttons.

If I set either the top or middle dial to max on the subwoofer it would blow the windows out. Not doing that.
That pic is about as far as I ever ran it and it was plenty loud.

Also I think the difference in the old Denon and the new AVR is the hz level output, that old one just WAS, not any kind of adjustment. Bass/Treble/Volume, all I needed.
Just a guess but I think it was closer to 120hz. If that would make the speakers seem smaller shifting it to 80hz.

Another thing I hate about Sirius is those 3 women that just feel the need to talk and talk and talk.
Gunz/Kayla/Madison shut up already.
Blasting some good song then BAM! BLAH.BLAH...BLAH.BLAH...BLAH.
And
Lately its been having random half second break in audio...off, then back to normal.
Having troubles even listening to it. That little cut out really sucks. 3 times just typing this.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

The same 4db change is occurring with the Audyssey MULTEQ XT in 'Reference' or 'OFF'.
Don't think its the Audyssey. I could reset back to factory and check...

Just the act of turning the Subwoofer Level>Adjustment> 'ON' increases the level +4db...as I can HEAR it with my EARS.
The LEVEL/scale is set to ZERO.
If I turn the 'Subwoofer Level' 'Adjustment' to 'OFF' it decreases the sound -4db...according to my EARS.
Scale still set at ZERO.

In order to hear this I set it at -4db. Then turned it 'on' and 'off' and there was no change to the sound HEARD. Like I tried to show in that last pic.

Really just seems to be how this receiver works...as far as I can tell.
Not any kind of problem that I have with it, just explaining it I guess.
Was just an observation I made pushing buttons.

If I set either the top or middle dial to max on the subwoofer it would blow the windows out. Not doing that.
That pic is about as far as I ever ran it and it was plenty loud.

Also I think the difference in the old Denon and the new AVR is the hz level output, that old one just WAS, not any kind of adjustment. Bass/Treble/Volume, all I needed.
Just a guess but I think it was closer to 120hz. If that would make the speakers seem smaller shifting it to 80hz.

Another thing I hate about Sirius is those 3 women that just feel the need to talk and talk and talk.
Gunz/Kayla/Madison shut up already.
Blasting some good song then BAM! BLAH.BLAH...BLAH.BLAH...BLAH.
And
Lately its been having random half second break in audio...off, then back to normal.
Having troubles even listening to it. That little cut out really sucks. 3 times just typing this.

I just went and played around with my sub level adjust. This is for "on the fly" sub adjustments and I hear no difference when mine is "off" vs "on" and set to "0".

I also keep my Dynamic Volume on "medium" at all times for the TV and commercials are the same exact volume as what ever show I am watching. I have Dynamic Volume "off" for movies.

 

[KenM10759]

Sirius/XM streams at a whopping 128kbps. It's CRAP. I was a subscriber for my two cars (my work car and my wife's) for 8 years. It was OK in the cars, as long was we weren't driving through areas with a lots of trees. We have a LOT of trees in most of New England though, so it sucked.

I see a lot of settings I'd change. Tone Control = OFF. Dynamic Equalization = OFF. Subwoofer crossover at 150hz (max.), and so many more.

It'll work, just have to keep at it.

 

[lovinthehd]

Well, if by engaging that "adjustment" and it levels it to 0 without you doing anything, it makes some sense but I have no idea why it would do that.

Sirius/XM streams at a whopping 128kbps. It's CRAP. I was a subscriber for my two cars (my work car and my wife's) for 8 years. It was OK in the cars, as long was we weren't driving through areas with a lots of trees. We have a LOT of trees in most of New England though, so it sucked.

I see a lot of settings I'd change. Tone Control = OFF. Dynamic Equalization = OFF. Subwoofer crossover at 150hz (max.), and so many more.

It'll work, just have to keep at it.

Where do you see crossover to the sub at 150? He's said he's set to 80. He has an LPF of LFE set to 120, which is the normal setting (and is not a subwoofer crossover).

 

[yepimonfire]

Sirius/XM streams at a whopping 128kbps. It's CRAP. I was a subscriber for my two cars (my work car and my wife's) for 8 years. It was OK in the cars, as long was we weren't driving through areas with a lots of trees. We have a LOT of trees in most of New England though, so it sucked.

I see a lot of settings I'd change. Tone Control = OFF. Dynamic Equalization = OFF. Subwoofer crossover at 150hz (max.), and so many more.

It'll work, just have to keep at it.

Not even. It's between 32kbps and 64kbps AAC-HE. No excuse for bitrates that low in the 21st century.

Even Spotify free streams at 160kbps vorbis.

Sent from my LM-X210(G) using Tapatalk

 

[yepimonfire]

@ErrorUnknown

Never blindly trust audyssey to do the setup properly, many will say that the sub distance should be left as it is set, but my own measurements say otherwise. Audyssey set my sub to 7.2' when the actual distance was 5.3', which resulted in a null at 60hz. Adjusting it back to 5.3 fixed the problem. The other thing I would suggest checking is that the distance settings on the front left and right aren't different. Assuming both speakers are equidistant from the center mlp, they should be equal.

Always double check with audyssey on and off. If it sounds better off, rerun it or just manually calibrate it. Personally, I think finding a good sub location and running without audyssey is best. I've never had good results with auto calibration programs. The only thing it's good for imo is setting the levels, since setting a sub via an spl meter results in the sub being turned way too loud. Not only that, but the flat bass given by audyssey sounds unnatural, some room gain is necessary for a perceived flat response.

Sent from my LM-X210(G) using Tapatalk

 

[lovinthehd]

@ErrorUnknown

Never blindly trust audyssey to do the setup properly, many will say that the sub distance should be left as it is set, but my own measurements say otherwise. Audyssey set my sub to 7.2' when the actual distance was 5.3', which resulted in a null at 60hz. Adjusting it back to 5.3 fixed the problem. The other thing I would suggest checking is that the distance settings on the front left and right aren't different. Assuming both speakers are equidistant from the center mlp, they should be equal.

Always double check with audyssey on and off. If it sounds better off, rerun it or just manually calibrate it. Personally, I think finding a good sub location and running without audyssey is best. I've never had good results with auto calibration programs. The only thing it's good for imo is setting the levels, since setting a sub via an spl meter results in the sub being turned way too loud. Not only that, but the flat bass given by audyssey sounds unnatural, some room gain is necessary for a perceived flat response.

Sent from my LM-X210(G) using Tapatalk

You mean your sub delay adjustment was ideal at the physical distance rather than a measured by Audyssey distance? What happened to your sub's inherent delay?

 

[KenM10759]

Well, if by engaging that "adjustment" and it levels it to 0 without you doing anything, it makes some sense but I have no idea why it would do that.


Where do you see crossover to the sub at 150? He's said he's set to 80. He has an LPF of LFE set to 120, which is the normal setting (and is not a subwoofer crossover).

I meant the setting on the back of the sub. All of them I've seen the have the low pass filter maxed out at the sub so the DSP crossover in the AVR or pre-pro has control.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I meant the setting on the back of the sub. All of them I've seen the have the low pass filter maxed out at the sub so the DSP crossover in the AVR or pre-pro has control.

Which is correct.