Converting stereo ouput into mono: Onkyo TX 8060

[Dan Atkinson]

Hello, all!

I'm new to this forum, and my experience with A/V is at the minimal to moderate level.

Presently, I have a system in my office, where the previous installer set up six (?) speakers throughout, in series with one wire (+,-), then ran it to the right side channel of the receiver (Onkyo TX 8060). The result, of course, is that only the right channel is being heard.

So...I don't want to run another wire through the ceiling to any of the speakers (major pain, and above my pay grade), as 'stereo' is not a concern in this application.
What I would like to know is how I can convert the output from both channels (R, L) to a mono sound to each speaker, without damaging the receiver.

Thanks in advance!

Dan

 

[TLS Guy]

Hello, all!

I'm new to this forum, and my experience with A/V is at the minimal to moderate level.

Presently, I have a system in my office, where the previous installer set up six (?) speakers throughout, in series with one wire (+,-), then ran it to the right side channel of the receiver (Onkyo TX 8060). The result, of course, is that only the right channel is being heard.

So...I don't want to run another wire through the ceiling to any of the speakers (major pain, and above my pay grade), as 'stereo' is not a concern in this application.
What I would like to know is how I can convert the output from both channels (R, L) to a mono sound to each speaker, without damaging the receiver.

Thanks in advance!

Dan

You can't couple amp channels. So you are stuck using one power amp channel of the receiver.

However you can couple the input channels on the front end of the receiver so you have both channels coming out of the single amp.

Under no circumstances couple the speaker outputs.

If that stupid installer connected the speakers in series like you say, he was an idiot. If the impedance of the speakers was 4 ohms each, you have a 24 ohm impedance, if 6 ohm speakers then you have 36 ohms and if 8 ohm speakers 48 ohms.

So in any event, the whole system needs redoing as under any of those scenarios the receiver will only deliver one third to one sixth of its rated power before voltage clipping.

Since this is an office system what I would do is convert it to a 70 volt system and drive it with a mono PA amp 70 volt. You would not need to rewire, but you would have to place a transformer at each speaker. You set the watt taps on the transformers to total the power of the amp. The other bonus is that you can set each speaker to take the power you want at each speaker location.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Just use this and call it a day.

https://www.amazon.com/Female-Splitter-Breakout-Combiner-Adapter/dp/B00ISCYBCK/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1516637230&sr=8-3&keywords=rca+audio+combiner

There are more professional solutions, but you won't have any issues with doing it this way.

 

[BMXTRIX]

If the system is working, then there may be something else at play to help keep the speakers from going crazy. I'm not sure at all why things would be so messed up.

It is worth checking the receiver to see if it has a 'mono' setting as well, as that is often one of the options in the surround setup. You can just force all audio to be mono in the system.

It does sound really screwy as this type of setup is almost always handled by a 70v amplifier and 70v speakers.

Perhaps there are in-wall volume controls with internal impedance matching?

 

[Dan Atkinson]

If the system is working, then there may be something else at play to help keep the speakers from going crazy. I'm not sure at all why things would be so messed up.

It is worth checking the receiver to see if it has a 'mono' setting as well, as that is often one of the options in the surround setup. You can just force all audio to be mono in the system.

It does sound really screwy as this type of setup is almost always handled by a 70v amplifier and 70v speakers.

Perhaps there are in-wall volume controls with internal impedance matching?

BMXTRIX,

To address your comment: 'Perhaps there are in-wall volume controls with internal impedance matching?', yes, there is a 'volume control' in the mix, mounted in the wall. The rest, I don't know.
I did talk to a rep from Onkyo earlier today, and he stated that I can use the remote (which I can't find) to convert the system to mono. He didn't convince me that I would be able to get a signal from both channels, so I'm still not sure where to go. I'm just not that familiar with the receiver. I'm looking for a simple solution...

 

[Dan Atkinson]

Just use this and call it a day.

https://www.amazon.com/Female-Splitter-Breakout-Combiner-Adapter/dp/B00ISCYBCK/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1516637230&sr=8-3&keywords=rca+audio+combiner

There are more professional solutions, but you won't have any issues with doing it this way.

BMXTRIX,

That sounds simple. I'm not seeing how this relates to the speaker wires. Am I missing something? Any risks involved?

 

[TLS Guy]

BMXTRIX,

That sounds simple. I'm not seeing how this relates to the speaker wires. Am I missing something? Any risks involved?

There are no risks to using that stereo to mono adapter.

You absolutely can not do what you originally asked. That is an absolute no go and will blow up your receiver beyond repair instantly.

Now we know there is at least one wall control, we really don't know what you have and nor do you.

At your level of knowledge you absolutely need the advice of a professional installer to see at least what you have and probably sort it out.

Receivers are not really the ideal units for driving a system like that, not by a long shot.

I really think you do need professional advice and encourage you to seek it.

A lot of members like myself and BMXTRIX have been doing this for a long time and things are never as simple as they may seem to the inexperienced. A forum like this can not really impart all the details and ramifications to the novice. That is an impossible bar for a forum.

 

[highfigh]

BMXTRIX,

That sounds simple. I'm not seeing how this relates to the speaker wires. Am I missing something? Any risks involved?

That part is for sending signal from one jack to two places. DO NOT use that to combine output from two amplifier channels! DO NOT try to combine amplifier channels, ever!

http://www.rane.com/note109.html

 

[highfigh]

Hello, all!

I'm new to this forum, and my experience with A/V is at the minimal to moderate level.

Presently, I have a system in my office, where the previous installer set up six (?) speakers throughout, in series with one wire (+,-), then ran it to the right side channel of the receiver (Onkyo TX 8060). The result, of course, is that only the right channel is being heard.

So...I don't want to run another wire through the ceiling to any of the speakers (major pain, and above my pay grade), as 'stereo' is not a concern in this application.
What I would like to know is how I can convert the output from both channels (R, L) to a mono sound to each speaker, without damaging the receiver.

Thanks in advance!

Dan

If you want to send a mono signal to the speakers, you need a power amp and send the signal from Zone 2. The cheapest and easiest way to do this it by using a summing adapter, which can be bought from companies like Edcor. It's not expensive and it's the right way to do it. Jensen Transformers sells similar parts. Don't just use a Y cord- read the link I posted from Rane and do it the right way.

 

[TLS Guy]

If you want to send a mono signal to the speakers, you need a power amp and send the signal from Zone 2. The cheapest and easiest way to do this it by using a summing adapter, which can be bought from companies like Edcor. It's not expensive and it's the right way to do it. Jensen Transformers sells similar parts. Don't just use a Y cord- read the link I posted from Rane and do it the right way.

I think we are getting ahead of ourselves to talk about amps. We have do not have reliable information about his speaker system. We do not know the impedance of the drivers, their power handling, how they are wired, how many wall controls or what they are and how they are wired.
We have minimal knowledge of what he has. If he can't reliably tell us then he needs a pro in there. I suspect that will be his safest and least expensive route.

I'm getting the strong wiff of smoke if we give precise advice on what information we have so far.

 

[BMXTRIX]

BMXTRIX,

That sounds simple. I'm not seeing how this relates to the speaker wires. Am I missing something? Any risks involved?

What are you using as your source? If you are using the internal FM tuner, then this won't work, and you will want to ensure that the receiver is set to output 'MONO' audio.

If you are using an external source, like a CD or MP3 player, or something else, then this will convert the 2-RCA outputs of that source to a single RCA input you can run to the same channel your speakers are using.

This clearly was a very amateur hour installation by someone who doesn't know commercial audio. It's also extremely unlikely that they ran the proper speaker cabling rated for use in ceilings, or used speakers that are of the proper type for what may be a plenum space. All of this is only a big deal if there is a fire.

If you do hear audio, and it seems to work fine, then go to the Onkyo website and download the manual. I'm having a hard time finding a TX 8060 from them. The 8050 I find without issue, but not an 8060.

Looking it seems the 8050 is a stereo receiver and the manual for it is here:
http://www.intl.onkyo.com/downloads/manuals/pdf/tx-8050_manual_e.pdf

Page 20 goes over the different sound formats. With the remote, you can toggle through different sound options such as stereo and mono and direct. You really want to use 'MONO', and it may be worth buying a remote, or contact the previous tenants to find out where they hid the remote control.

It seems like some sort of impedance matching volume control must have been used which corrects for the number of connected speakers. Not that this is good or proper, but it sounds like it works. All you really need to do now is get the receiver into mono mode and Onkyo, in their wisdom, apparently only allows this feature through their handheld remote.

Which (for the 8050) is right here:
https://www.remotes.com/onkyo-p/ONKYO-24140816.htm?gclid=Cj0KCQiAtJbTBRDkARIsAIA0a5PPDKMnGvGRxfbCeXgU1GKazxwfjl7uM7sS3T08LjSVh7JEn-smdisaAkggEALw_wcB

If it is actually a 8160, then you will want to get the remote for that, but it seems to function similarly.

 

[highfigh]

I think we are getting ahead of ourselves to talk about amps. We have do not have reliable information about his speaker system. We do not know the impedance of the drivers, their power handling, how they are wired, how many wall controls or what they are and how they are wired.
We have minimal knowledge of what he has. If he can't reliably tell us then he needs a pro in there. I suspect that will be his safest and least expensive route.

I'm getting the strong wiff of smoke if we give precise advice on what information we have so far.

Well, I googled the receiver model number and only found 8050, not 8060 and the manual for the 8050 only shows preamp out for Zone 2, no speaker terminals. I also didn't see a way to set Z2 to Mono. If an amp with Mono/Stereo is chosen, it obviously eliminates the need to buy the summing transformer, but the rest of the info I gave should help.

That said, I agree that it may be time to get someone in so they can determine exactly what's there and what is needed.

 

[highfigh]

If you are using an external source, like a CD or MP3 player, or something else, then this will convert the 2-RCA outputs of that source to a single RCA input you can run to the same channel your speakers are using.

That adapter MAY work- try it with a Sony source and it's likely to cause much of the signal to disappear, because they often invert one channel and that removes the common information.