Just ordered two of these

[MrBoat]

Peerless by Tymphany 830667 8" Paper Cone SLS Subwoofer

I know there are better and likely more popular drivers but I am planning on building a pair for a small room and have a good feeling about this driver for music. A friend of mine had a pair of these in his truck in sealed boxes and now has them in his home office in the same enclosures and they actually sound really nice with his desktop speakers. In his truck, I think he had them wired in parallel, IIRC, and then separated them when he moved them indoors. He modeled a sealed box for me somewhere around 11"W x 13"H x 17"D to fit in the smallest of any of the possible spaces I can fit them in and I can use his Inuke 1000dsp to try them out with until I figure out what amp I will power them with. This system will all be run from my old Linux machine that was installed in an older Dell multimedia themed pc.

I have the wood, and the will, at any rate.

 

[shadyJ]

Those should be pretty good. Very wide-band for a subwoofer driver also, you could easily use those as bass drivers in a 3 way. You may want to EQ their low end with the iNuke to give it a small boost. They are not output monsters but should do very well at normal listening levels.

 

[MrBoat]

Those should be pretty good. Very wide-band for a subwoofer driver also, you could easily use those as bass drivers in a 3 way. You may want to EQ their low end with the iNuke to give it a small boost. They are not output monsters but should do very well at normal listening levels.

That's what I noticed about them is that they were seemingly pretty responsive up into the mid bass region. It made the small desktop monitors he had sound a lot bigger than what they are. I wasn't even in front of his speakers. That was the room sound as a whole.

 

[rojo]

Hmm. Did you ever install WinISD @MrBoat? Figuring you'd build your 11 x 15 x 17 box out of 0.75" MDF with bracing and basket displacement offset by polyfil, that's a ~1.15 cubic ft box. That sub would have a Q of 0.881 in such a box, which is pretty high. Target Q for a critically damp sub is 0.5. Also, the sub is -3dB at 47 Hz in such a box. That tuning might be pretty close to correct in a car once you add cabin gain, but I don't think this is a good driver for a sealed sub in a house.

Vented in that size box is better, but still ~5dB down at 40 Hz. You could do a 3" vent at 7 9/16" and not have to deal with any bends while supplying the sort of power that won't bottom out your sub (about 30 watts, for 100 dB @ 40 Hz, 105 dB @ 65 Hz, bottoming out at around 30 Hz, and port chuff just shy of 16 meters / second).

Believe it or not, a 4th order bandpass with this driver is pretty interesting. It won't play loud, only around 92.5 dB from 50 - 100 Hz at 40W. But trading overall SPL you gain deeper extension. There's a 4dB rise going from 50 down to around 32 Hz, and this config will have an F3 of around 23 Hz (or maybe a bit lower with Polyfil in the rear chamber). This is figured with a rear chamber sealed at 0.6 cubic feet, the front chamber at 0.4 cubic feet, and the front chamber vent tuned to 42 Hz (2.5" vent, 16 7/8" long).

Both the vented and the bandpass configurations center the impedance dip and place the minimum cone excursion right at the driver's Fs (assuming Madisound's spec sheet can be trusted).

Blue = sealed @55W; Green = vented @30W; Red = bandpass @40W
SPL:

Cone excursion:

Impedance:

WinISD figures vent lengths with one end flared. If you plan to flare both ends, you'll need to lengthen the vents accordingly.

 

[MrBoat]

Hmm. Did you ever install WinISD @MrBoat? Figuring you'd build your 11 x 15 x 17 box out of 0.75" MDF with bracing and basket displacement offset by polyfil, that's a ~1.15 cubic ft box. That driver has a Q of 0.887 in such a box, which is pretty high. Stuffing it full of polyfill still wouldn't get you down to the more controlled Q range of 0.5 - 0.7, not to mention it's -3dB at 47 Hz in such a box. I don't think this is a good driver for a sealed enclosure.

Vented in that size box is kind of weird with a +2ish dB hump between 60 - 70 Hz, and 5dB down at 40 Hz. But you could do a 3" vent at 7 9/16" and not have to deal with any bends while supplying the sort of power that won't bottom out your sub (about 30 watts, for 100 dB @ 40 Hz, 105 dB @ 65 Hz, bottoming out at around 30 Hz, and port chuff just shy of 16 meters / second).

Believe it or not, a 4th order bandpass with this driver is pretty interesting. It won't play loud, only around 92.5 dB from 50 - 100 Hz at 40W. But trading overall SPL you gain deeper extension. There's a 4dB rise going from 50 down to around 32 Hz, and this config will have an F3 of around 23 Hz (or maybe a bit lower with Polyfil in the rear chamber). This is figured with a rear chamber sealed at 0.6 cubic feet, the front chamber at 0.4 cubic feet, and the front chamber vent tuned to 42 Hz (2.5" vent, 16 7/8" long).

Both the vented and the bandpass configurations center the impedance dip and place the minimum cone excursion right at the driver's Fs (assuming Madisound's spec sheet can be trusted).

Blue = sealed; Green = vented; Red = bandpass
SPL:

Cone excursion:

Impedance:

WinISD figures vent lengths with one end flared. If you plan to flare both ends, you'll need to lengthen the vents accordingly.

I installed WinISD and never messed with it much after the Ultimax build. If I had followed the suggestion of WinISD with that driver, it would have rattled the fillings from my teeth. Even with installing it in a sealed box .8 ft less than what PE showed, I still had to hold it way back from it's potential for music. When I ran the test tones, it was still reporting well below 30hz and making things jump around in the room and I stopped it in it's tracks soon after.

The only information I got for a starting point was listening to the sealed boxes my buddy has, which are even slightly smaller than these, with a similar sized room of similar construction. Something with how I use my EQ and crossover controls and the ridiculous amount of gain this house seems to have. Otherwise, I have to remove furniture from that room to fit anything larger.

Admittedly, this is uncharted territory so I much appreciate you pointing this out. I will keep what you have posted in mind in the event this doesn't work, which it may very well not. I will just try one box first and see how it goes.

The RSS315HF-4, OTOH, does seem to work extremely well in a box similar in size to the sealed version stated (I used the box dimension from Zaph) on PE. Still, I have the gain control on the amp set to -6.5db on that Inuke 3000dsp amp and it's plenty of bass with the music I listen to.

 

[highfigh]

Hmm. Did you ever install WinISD @MrBoat? Figuring you'd build your 11 x 15 x 17 box out of 0.75" MDF with bracing and basket displacement offset by polyfil, that's a ~1.15 cubic ft box. That sub would have a Q of 0.881 in such a box, which is pretty high. Target Q for a critically damp sub is 0.5. Also, the sub is -3dB at 47 Hz in such a box. That tuning might be pretty close to correct in a car once you add cabin gain, but I don't think this is a good driver for a sealed sub in a house.

Vented in that size box is better, but still ~5dB down at 40 Hz. You could do a 3" vent at 7 9/16" and not have to deal with any bends while supplying the sort of power that won't bottom out your sub (about 30 watts, for 100 dB @ 40 Hz, 105 dB @ 65 Hz, bottoming out at around 30 Hz, and port chuff just shy of 16 meters / second).

Believe it or not, a 4th order bandpass with this driver is pretty interesting. It won't play loud, only around 92.5 dB from 50 - 100 Hz at 40W. But trading overall SPL you gain deeper extension. There's a 4dB rise going from 50 down to around 32 Hz, and this config will have an F3 of around 23 Hz (or maybe a bit lower with Polyfil in the rear chamber). This is figured with a rear chamber sealed at 0.6 cubic feet, the front chamber at 0.4 cubic feet, and the front chamber vent tuned to 42 Hz (2.5" vent, 16 7/8" long).

Both the vented and the bandpass configurations center the impedance dip and place the minimum cone excursion right at the driver's Fs (assuming Madisound's spec sheet can be trusted).

Blue = sealed @55W; Green = vented @30W; Red = bandpass @40W
SPL:

Cone excursion:

Impedance:

WinISD figures vent lengths with one end flared. If you plan to flare both ends, you'll need to lengthen the vents accordingly.

It's not so bad but may be a bit boomy in a smaller room. Also, critically damped is Qts of .707- .5 is over-damped.

Better to go with a bit more output and let the room gain provide the rest.

 

[MrBoat]

Further reading on this driver from Tymphany, in their application notes, only shows a sealed arrangement, stating in the notes somewhere that they have other drivers for vented, or other applications.

I also found out by chance that this is the driver used in what is called the redneck bucket sub. Which is a 5 gallon bucket inverted with a few inches of concrete in the lid portion and the driver siliconed to the cutout bottom for an up-firing configuration. Granted, a plastic bucket is likely to have some significant resonant qualities that likely add to the function of that arrangement but I found it interesting, nonetheless.

What has helped me with the other subs in my main room is the more variable crossover capabilities with my other Inuke, compared to the set increments of my AVR, along with the use of EQ at the source. Probably not such a big deal for those who typically crossover from 100hz and below letting the AVR decide the function of their mains, but it did help with my use of Pure Direct mode running my main speakers full range, and setting the lowpass at something odd like 53hz. Based on some old standard crossover formulas with regard to the main speakers low range capabilities. Such as, depending on the capabilities (or size) of the main speakers woofers, setting the low pass at 1.25-1.5x the main speakers lowest frequency as a starting point, and then fine tuning to the in-room response by ear.

Of course then there is dynamic and parametric EQ which is often bypassed for sealed arrangements, but it can help, along with phase switching etc. This is probably much more complicated when using surround, or for HT duty, but for incremental blends on non, bass forward music or more natural bass inclusion of some acoustical cuts, a little goes a longer way. At least, that's what I am finding out in use over time.

There's not a whole lot of information available with subwoofer settings outside of HT use. It seems to be a topic where the specifics are avoided on the music side.

 

[shadyJ]

Further reading on this driver from Tymphany, in their application notes, only shows a sealed arrangement, stating in the notes somewhere that they have other drivers for vented, or other applications.

I also found out by chance that this is the driver used in what is called the redneck bucket sub. Which is a 5 gallon bucket inverted with a few inches of concrete in the lid portion and the driver siliconed to the cutout bottom for an up-firing configuration. Granted, a plastic bucket is likely to have some significant resonant qualities that likely add to the function of that arrangement but I found it interesting, nonetheless.

What has helped me with the other subs in my main room is the more variable crossover capabilities with my other Inuke, compared to the set increments of my AVR, along with the use of EQ at the source. Probably not such a big deal for those who typically crossover from 100hz and below letting the AVR decide the function of their mains, but it did help with my use of Pure Direct mode running my main speakers full range, and setting the lowpass at something odd like 53hz. Based on some old standard crossover formulas with regard to the main speakers low range capabilities. Such as, depending on the capabilities (or size) of the main speakers woofers, setting the low pass at 1.25-1.5x the main speakers lowest frequency as a starting point, and then fine tuning to the in-room response by ear.

Of course then there is dynamic and parametric EQ which is often bypassed for sealed arrangements, but it can help, along with phase switching etc. This is probably much more complicated when using surround, or for HT duty, but for incremental blends on non, bass forward music or more natural bass inclusion of some acoustical cuts, a little goes a longer way. At least, that's what I am finding out in use over time.

There's not a whole lot of information available with subwoofer settings outside of HT use. It seems to be a topic where the specifics are avoided on the music side.

Regarding the redneck bucket sub, you can have a similar form factor but without the resonance issues by using sonotube. A little more expensive, a little more work involved in creating the enclosure, but it would be very light and also very stiff.

 

[MrBoat]

Regarding the redneck bucket sub, you can have a similar form factor but without the resonance issues by using sonotube. A little more expensive, a little more work involved in creating the enclosure, but it would be very light and also very stiff.

I actually looked at the sonotube at one point. Certainly easier than building cabinets and I have used them for included forms for other composite constructions. I wasn't actually thinking about building the bucket subs. I was under the impression those were more geared towards the boom crowd. Just that the designer seemed to insist that the plastic buckets were part of their. . . .charm, sonic, or otherwise.

 

[MrBoat]

Ok, so I got the experimental #1 of 2 built. It's braced with longitudinal stiffeners made of 3/4" X 1.25" plywood There is a cross brace tying the two stiffeners on the larger sides at midpoint. Basically, all 4 sides sound the same with no ringing. Double baffle etc. I put quite a bit of stuffing in it but it's not packed.

It actually sounds good. Definitely EQ-able but it's hitting the lowest music bass notes without effort and I don't notice any distortion. There is lots of room for tuning. I'm basically running it like I was the Dayton with just a tad more gain.

 

[highfigh]

Further reading on this driver from Tymphany, in their application notes, only shows a sealed arrangement, stating in the notes somewhere that they have other drivers for vented, or other applications.

Tymphany shows only sealed, but Parts Express shows a vented box of 2.09 ft³ with F3 of 28Hz. You can call them to get the full Bass Box Pro data.

 

[MrBoat]

Tymphany shows only sealed, but Parts Express shows a vented box of 2.09 ft³ with F3 of 28Hz. You can call them to get the full Bass Box Pro data.

I saw this driver used for automotive builds to larger vented and it's not what I needed. Also, this is not for LFE or sustained low frequencies below 40hz. I ended up getting it to sound like it should, and actually match perfectly with the little full range speakers without much fuss. I still have to hold it back in this room.

All in all, this little sub, matched with the full range Peerless TC9's in the odd little cabinets, ends up being a tough little stereo system to beat in a small room. Two of these subs ought to be actually remarkable in this setup.

I played it for 7 hrs last night. Spent about the first hr or two adjusting the settings in the inuke and ended up finding a sweet spot that played everything for the rest of the evening. I'm getting actual music bass 'notes' out of this sub other than just relative frequencies or accumulations thereof.

 

[highfigh]

I saw this driver used for automotive builds to larger vented and it's not what I needed. Also, this is not for LFE or sustained low frequencies below 40hz. I ended up getting it to sound like it should, and actually match perfectly with the little full range speakers without much fuss. I still have to hold it back in this room.

All in all, this little sub, matched with the full range Peerless TC9's in the odd little cabinets, ends up being a tough little stereo system to beat in a small room. Two of these subs ought to be actually remarkable in this setup.

I played it for 7 hrs last night. Spent about the first hr or two adjusting the settings in the inuke and ended up finding a sweet spot that played everything for the rest of the evening. I'm getting actual music bass 'notes' out of this sub other than just relative frequencies or accumulations thereof.

I use the 830874 in my 2-1/2 way build (6.5") and they aren't as sensitive as my tweeters, so I padded those down- the response is smooth and human speech is about as natural as I have heard in anything that wasn't very expensive. I have heard some extremely pricey speakers that did a terrible ob with speech and that's just not acceptable. I did car audio for a long time and (I think) because of the almost constant exposure to bass, I prefer that it be a bit under-stated, although I still want it to be smooth and have impact. While I have never been a fan of Rap and Hip Hop, I do know how it's supposed to sound and was very successful in achieving that for the many car audio customers who came through the shops where I worked. I imagined that their reaction when they saw me was likely to be (to themselves) "What's this old white guy gonna do for me?????" but they were always impressed when they heard the systems. My speakers do extremely well when Rap & Hi Hop come through them- OTOH, I was always impressed when small speakers punched over their weight, anyway.

 

[MrBoat]

I use the 830874 in my 2-1/2 way build (6.5") and they aren't as sensitive as my tweeters, so I padded those down- the response is smooth and human speech is about as natural as I have heard in anything that wasn't very expensive. I have heard some extremely pricey speakers that did a terrible ob with speech and that's just not acceptable. I did car audio for a long time and (I think) because of the almost constant exposure to bass, I prefer that it be a bit under-stated, although I still want it to be smooth and have impact. While I have never been a fan of Rap and Hip Hop, I do know how it's supposed to sound and was very successful in achieving that for the many car audio customers who came through the shops where I worked. I imagined that their reaction when they saw me was likely to be (to themselves) "What's this old white guy gonna do for me?????" but they were always impressed when they heard the systems. My speakers do extremely well when Rap & Hi Hop come through them- OTOH, I was always impressed when small speakers punched over their weight, anyway.

Old white guys is who started me listening to good music/equipment.

 

[highfigh]

Old white guys is who started me listening to good music/equipment.

But the guys who might have thought that were hard-core rap fans and I probably would have thought the same if I had been in their position.

 

[MrBoat]

I'll be onto the other cabinet over this holiday. Will gladly use up the rest of this awful plywood on these.

A good thing about the peerless drivers is they have a tapered flange to nothing so you don't have to countersink them.

 

[MrBoat]

Okay, what a difference dual subs makes. I am pretty new to subwoofers so I have to try my way through these things, which adds to the fun of it, really.

Since I already had the Inuke anyway, this little 2.2 full range system comes in at around $170 in parts, and about $20 worth of plywood. The little full rangers were built from scraps from other projects. Honestly, being that this project has been such a surprise, I could paint them with latex house paint and just add to the irony with such a bang for the buck system. The one that nobody wants to steal, ends up being one of the best sounding.

 

[MrBoat]

I have to report that these small subs with these full range speakers pretty much kick butt with music. I have these crossed over now at 150hz, and the little full rangers just sing clearer yet. The system ends up coming across as a great, if not stellar, 3-way system. Now I have the subs behind, with the speakers a little further out in the room. I had just stashed them back there when not in use and I was surprised how good it sounded with them arranged this way comparatively.

This is an easy kit to get hooked on. Especially for what little space it takes up.

 

[rojo]

I have to report that these small subs with these full range speakers pretty much kick butt with music. I have these crossed over now at 150hz, and the little full rangers just sing clearer yet. The system ends up coming across as a great, if not stellar, 3-way system. Now I have the subs behind, with the speakers a little further out in the room. I had just stashed them back there when not in use and I was surprised how good it sounded with them arranged this way comparatively.

This is an easy kit to get hooked on. Especially for what little space it takes up.

Have you thought about combining the subs with the bookshelfs to make Dalek-shaped towers?

 

[highfigh]

I have to report that these small subs with these full range speakers pretty much kick butt with music. I have these crossed over now at 150hz, and the little full rangers just sing clearer yet. The system ends up coming across as a great, if not stellar, 3-way system. Now I have the subs behind, with the speakers a little further out in the room. I had just stashed them back there when not in use and I was surprised how good it sounded with them arranged this way comparatively.

This is an easy kit to get hooked on. Especially for what little space it takes up.

Ever check the response without those big speakers in the room? Yeah, they affect it.