Emotive XPA2 Gen 3

[WineOfTheVeins]

It looks like emotiva has changed their amps to a SMPS which I am hesitant about. Has anyone tested this amp or have a switched power supply style unit on a hi-fi system? What are the results? I am interested in the 300w into 8ohms, clean industrial look etc. Would you guys recommend this amp? It's only $1000 for the 2 channel, but I don't know about this format they're trying. Are these still made in USA? (Not like Marantz, where it claims it's Japan, but on the back I've seen different models have Vietnam, China, Japan, mostly being China) not into that at all.

I've done some searching on this forum and seen some comments say "just look up emotiva you'll see." Is that to say they're poor quality and problematic, or have great reviews? What have been people's opinions on Emotiva's earlier gen amps? Not going to lie, being an electrician by trade and knowing the properties of how electricity flows etc, I am skeptical about SMPS for not only long term reliability, but the fact that: When you open OR close a switch, there are spikes of voltage/current called in-rush above what is normally called on by the load. IE: you turn on a light switch to a 60watt bulb, normal load draw at a perfect 120v would be .5amps. But for that first few ms in life, it is higher than .5 amps then it settles off. Obviously this will be a problem because now you're adding variables to how the original signal was meant to be heard. It causes awful harmonics on the sinusoidal waves. Office buildings for example have ridiculously noisy power systems with all the computers etc, even so much that they have to run larger wires just to account for all that "reactive" power that isn't even doing any work. Hopefully in this day and age they could make a SMPS that filters out these nuisances, but as of yet, I've heard nothing but bad things.
Thanks.

 

[Andrein]

I had xpa5 gen3. Also had some fears abot class d/h or whatever they call it. Did not like it overal. Hoped to get more power and quality on par with my then yamaha avr. Fixed the issue with distortion but the sound seemed flat to me, sound stage blured, not sure exactly what the reason was, did not digg too much into the issue. Just returned it back next day.

Dont know, i would take something else. There are enough alternatives in the same price range, e.g. Monolith.

 

[WineOfTheVeins]

Thanks for the hands-on experience.

 

[Verdinut]

It looks like emotiva has changed their amps to a SMPS which I am hesitant about. Has anyone tested this amp or have a switched power supply style unit on a hi-fi system? What are the results? I am interested in the 300w into 8ohms, clean industrial look etc. Would you guys recommend this amp? It's only $1000 for the 2 channel, but I don't know about this format they're trying. Are these still made in USA? (Not like Marantz, where it claims it's Japan, but on the back I've seen different models have Vietnam, China, Japan, mostly being China) not into that at all.

I've done some searching on this forum and seen some comments say "just look up emotiva you'll see." Is that to say they're poor quality and problematic, or have great reviews? What have been people's opinions on Emotiva's earlier gen amps? Not going to lie, being an electrician by trade and knowing the properties of how electricity flows etc, I am skeptical about SMPS for not only long term reliability, but the fact that: When you open OR close a switch, there are spikes of voltage/current called in-rush above what is normally called on by the load. IE: you turn on a light switch to a 60watt bulb, normal load draw at a perfect 120v would be .5amps. But for that first few ms in life, it is higher than .5 amps then it settles off. Obviously this will be a problem because now you're adding variables to how the original signal was meant to be heard. It causes awful harmonics on the sinusoidal waves. Office buildings for example have ridiculously noisy power systems with all the computers etc, even so much that they have to run larger wires just to account for all that "reactive" power that isn't even doing any work. Hopefully in this day and age they could make a SMPS that filters out these nuisances, but as of yet, I've heard nothing but bad things.
Thanks.

Emotiva does not have a very good reliability record. I understand your concern about purchasing one of their products with a switching power supply.

I know you're not the only one doubting about the reliability of a SMPS. I guess you know that this kind of power supply has been existing for many years in the medical apparatus and computer equipment industry. Of course, the reliability depends on the expertise and testing rigidity of the designing engineers.

However, some pro audio equipment manufacturers have been putting out amplifiers equipped with switching power supplies. Among them is QSC Audio, a huge manufacturer which has been making professional amps, audio processors and loudspeakers since the 1960's and is considered as the best pro audio manufacturer in the United States with an excellent record of reliability.

Let me recommend to you an amplifier which you will never regret having acquired. It is an amplifier of their Digital Cinema Amplifier Series. It is the DCA 1622, a 2 channel Class AB amp which outputs 300w/ch at 8 ohms with a FTC rating 20-20 kHz with only 0.03% THD with both channels driven. It also has a voltage gain of 32 dB. Note that this amplifier, as well as the other models in the DCA Series, use a SMPS, and that line of amplifiers has been manufactured since 1998 without having been modified whatsoever since the beginning. The model numbers have been the same since their original release.That proves their reliability. Moreover, they are being used in many movie theaters across the US and Canada, along with QSC audio processors and loudspeakers. They use a variable speed quiet cooling fan and they are made in the United States.

There is an online store in California which sells it for $967. I believe that at at that price, it's discounted by 20%. You can also visit QSC's website to find a distributor in your area and compare prices.

https://socalcinetech.com/product/qsc-dca-1622-amplifier/

https://www.qsc.com/products/

I know about the reliability of QSC's products. One of my friends plays in a band. The only brand of amps that he couldn't kill is the QSC brand. Those amplifiers are built like tanks.

In my Home Theater system, I am at present using two DCA 1222 power amps for bi-amping my front left and right speakers. I plan to purchase a third one to bi-amplify the center speaker system which is identical to the left and right ones. Those amps are indeed neutral and transparent and perform as well as any expensive audiophile power amp on the market. I recommend the QSC brand without any reserve.

 

[jinjuku]

Crowns XLS DriveCores do a good job and are reasonably priced.

 

[Verdinut]

Crowns XLS DriveCores do a good job and are reasonably priced.

The QSC DCA line has better specs (less than 10% of Crown's THD) and its amps are built like tanks. They weigh 21 lb compared to 8 lb for the Crowns. I don't think the Crowns XLS can compare.
Also note that the OP prefers to get a product made in the US or Japan.

 

[lovinthehd]

The QSC DCA line has better specs (less than 10% of Crown's THD) and its amps are built like tanks. They weigh 21 lb compared to 8 lb for the Crowns. I don't think the Crowns XLS can compare.
Also note that the OP prefers to get a product made in the US or Japan.

Noticed @PENG was testing an 850a and wonder how that compared to DCA line (or was part of it).

Why is the weight difference significant? Indicative of a heavier type power supply? Heat sink? Fan? Which XLS Drivecore amp have you used? I'm not sure QSC compares

 

[Verdinut]

Noticed @PENG was testing an 850a and wonder how that compared to DCA line (or was part of it).

Why is the weight difference significant? Indicative of a heavier type power supply? Heat sink? Fan? Which XLS Drivecore amp have you used? I'm not sure QSC compares

I used the XLS1502 for comparison. It's definitely not an apple to apple comparison.The QSC is definitely more solidly built with the added weight and the specs don't compare as mentioned. It operates in Class AB as opposed to Class D. The prices don't compare either.

I am sure PENG can give us his opinion on the construction of the RMX850a. This amp however weighs 35 lb because of the linear power supply and heavy toroidal transformer

 

[PENG]

I used the XLS1502 for comparison. It's definitely not an apple to apple comparison.The QSC is definitely more solidly built with the added weight and the specs don't compare as mentioned. It operates in Class AB as opposed to Class D. The prices don't compare either.

I am sure PENG can give us his opinion on the construction of the RMX850a. This amp however weighs 35 lb because of the linear power supply and heavy toroidal transformer

I have to politely agree and disagree with you to some extents but not 100% on your comparison..

Yes, on QSC build quality, weight and specs - I find it very well built, 35 lbs is in fact substantial for the rated power based heavily on forced air cooling. On paper it does have better distortions specs than the XLS1002.

Not really, on the class AB vs class D - Class alone does not determine which product is better in all criteria, including sound quality.

Neutral on your last point - Firstly, QSC did not say they used linear power supply (that normally implied regulated), so I suspect they use the conventional transformer, rectifier, capacitor types.

Secondly, toroidal transformers used in audio amplifiers are not always better than equivalent EI types. Both types can be good or not so good as it depends..and they are not necessarily heavier. In fact sometimes toroidals can be used to minimize weight as they could be found with better performance to weight ratio. I actually feel "heavy" is a negative if it does not offer advantages.

I have no experience with the XLS amps but my first impression of the QSC RMX amp is positive, except the fan noise. I would love to try a XLS that has been recommended on this forum numerous times, if I can get one, or borrow one for free.

 

[WineOfTheVeins]

Emotiva does not have a very good reliability record. I understand your concern about purchasing one of their products with a switching power supply.

I know you're not the only one doubting about the reliability of a SMPS. I guess you know that this kind of power supply has been existing for many years in the medical apparatus and computer equipment industry. Of course, the reliability depends on the expertise and testing rigidity of the designing engineers.

However, some pro audio equipment manufacturers have been putting out amplifiers equipped with switching power supplies. Among them is QSC Audio, a huge manufacturer which has been making professional amps, audio processors and loudspeakers since the 1960's and is considered as the best pro audio manufacturer in the United States with an excellent record of reliability.

Let me recommend to you an amplifier which you will never regret having acquired. It is an amplifier of their Digital Cinema Amplifier Series. It is the DCA 1622, a 2 channel Class AB amp which outputs 300w/ch at 8 ohms with a FTC rating 20-20 kHz with only 0.03% THD with both channels driven. It also has a voltage gain of 32 dB. Note that this amplifier, as well as the other models in the DCA Series, use a SMPS, and that line of amplifiers has been manufactured since 1998 without having been modified whatsoever since the beginning. The model numbers have been the same since their original release.That proves their reliability. Moreover, they are being used in many movie theaters in the US and Canada, along with QSC audio processors and loudspeakers. They use a variable speed quiet cooling fan and they are made in the United States.

There is an online store in California which sells it for $967. I believe that at at that price, it's discounted by 20%. You can also visit QSC's website to find a distributor in your area and compare prices.

https://socalcinetech.com/product/qsc-dca-1622-amplifier/

https://www.qsc.com/products/

I know about the reliability of QSC's products. One of my friends plays in a band. The only brand of amps that he couldn't kill is the QSC brand. Those amplifiers are built like tanks.

In my Home Theater system, I am at present using two DCA 1222 power amps for bi-amping my front left and right speakers. I plan to purchase a third one to bi-amplify the center speaker system which is identical to the left and right ones. Those amps are indeed neutral and transparent and perform as well as any expensive audiophile power amp on the market. I recommend the QSC brand without any reserve.

Thank you for the very helpful insight. I have never heard of QSC but I will certainly look into it. I am a junkie for quality, I cannot stand poorly made, half-arsed lazily engineered garbage. I want to put out good money once and not have to worry about replacing it in 5 years (insert most modern products today). I do like the 300w output, I want to be in that range to not only power my current speakers, but to have that room down the road if/when I upgrade.

I have heard good things about Crown, a little concerning how lightweight they are though. I'm not transporting my amp, so I don't care if it weighs 100lbs, in fact I prefer that. And yeah, Japan, USA, Canada are all great, in that order but I'm fine with any.

 

[Verdinut]

I have to politely agree and disagree with you to some extents but not 100% on your comparison..

Yes, on QSC build quality, weight and specs - I find it very well built, 35 lbs is in fact substantial for the rated power based heavily on forced air cooling. On paper it does have better distortions specs than the XLS1002.

Not really, on the class AB vs class D - Class alone does not determine which product is better in all criteria, including sound quality.

Neutral on your last point - Firstly, QSC did not say they used linear power supply (that normally implied regulated), so I suspect they use the conventional transformer, rectifier, capacitor types.

Secondly, toroidal transformers used in audio amplifiers are not always better than equivalent EI types. Both types can be good or not so good as it depends..and they are not necessarily heavier. In fact sometimes toroidals can be used to minimize weight as they could be found with better performance to weight ratio. I actually feel "heavy" is a negative if it does not offer advantages.

I have no experience with the XLS amps but my first impression of the QSC RMX amp is positive, except the fan noise. I would love to try a XLS that has been recommended on this forum numerous times, if I can get one, or borrow one for free.

First, we have to clarify that your comparison is with regard to the RMX850a, while mine is referring to the DCA 1222s which I have.

Your reply is indeed very informative. I was under the impression that all non-switching types of power supplies were called linear, hence my misunderstanding. I don't think the RMX series uses a regulated supply either. I meant conventional.

Wasn't the toroidal originally put on the market because of its design which was also less susceptible to hum? Of course, it all depends on the construction in either case.

 

[Verdinut]

Thank you for the very helpful insight. I have never heard of QSC but I will certainly look into it. I am a junkie for quality, I cannot stand poorly made, half-arsed lazily engineered garbage. I want to put out good money once and not have to worry about replacing it in 5 years (insert most modern products today). I do like the 300w output, I want to be in that range to not only power my current speakers, but to have that room down the road if/when I upgrade.

I have heard good things about Crown, a little concerning how lightweight they are though. I'm not transporting my amp, so I don't care if it weighs 100lbs, in fact I prefer that. And yeah, Japan, USA, Canada are all great, in that order but I'm fine with any.

You're welcome! Keep us informed on your final choice. It would be good to eventually have your listening impressions on the performance of the newly acquired amp on this same thread..

 

[jinjuku]

The Crown and QSC are @ different price points however. QSC makes really good gear. Lab Gruppen would be another to consider.

Also Yamaha P series would be worth looking at.

The Crown XLS and Yamaha P Series (the 2500 I heard) don't have fan noise. They have fans, just not fan noise. Don't know about the QSC.

 

[jinjuku]

Not sure why there is a weight argument being made. Is it some how related to build quality or reliability?

 

[slipperybidness]

Wasn't the toroidal originally put on the market because of its design which was also less susceptible to hum? Of course, it all depends on the construction in either case.

If my memory is correct, I believe that toroidal are actually more likely to produce mechanical hum, but less likely to emit RFI noise.

 

[Verdinut]

The Crown and QSC are @ different price points however. QSC makes really good gear. Lab Gruppen would be another to consider.

Also Yamaha P series would be worth looking at.

The Crown XLS and Yamaha P Series (the 2500 I heard) don't have fan noise. They have fans, just not fan noise. Don't know about the QSC.

The QSC DCA Series amps are equipped with quiet variable speed fans. I own two of the DCA 1222s as mentioned in some previous posts. However, their RMX Series have rather noisy fans, but these amps are mainly designed for live gigs so the noise is obviously not as easily noticeable. For home use, the cooling fan can be replaced by a quiet one if the LP is close to the amp.

 

[PENG]

Wasn't the toroidal originally put on the market because of its design which was also less susceptible to hum? Of course, it all depends on the construction in either case.

Toroidal transformers have been in used for ages and can be found in some vintage amplifiers. There are pros and cons of either design, but if you read info published by people who made the product, they could be biased in favor of whatever they make and want to promote.

Here is an article by Doug Blackburn and soundstage.com comparing the two designs. I don't know anything about the author, but what he wrote make sense to me, and Soundstage is not a transformer manufacturer. There are really no absolute right or wrong in saying one is better than the other, but it is generally true that, like for like, toroidal transformers can be made lighter, not heavier. As for hum and noise, it depends, I found the EI core transformers in all my Denon AVRs almost free of hum, quieter than the toroidal in my Bryston and Parasound amps. The toroidal in my Marantz and Adcom amps are also very quiet as is the one in my Anthem MCA amp, yet the EI frame one in my vintage Marantz amp is audible thought it is a gigantic one. Bottom line, it depends..

 

[PENG]

The QSC DCA Series amps are equipped with quiet variable speed fans. I own two of the DCA 1222s as mentioned in some previous posts. However, their RMX Series have rather noisy fans, but these amps are mainly designed for live gigs so the noise is obviously not as easily noticeable. For home use, the cooling fan can be replaced by a quiet one if the LP is close to the amp.

From everything I've read, I believe you, too bad I have too many amps already to justify trying out an expensive (relatively speaking) pro amp when I could pick up the RMX amp for <C$300. If my initial impression of my first low cost proamp does not change in the next couple of weeks, I may consider selling some of my other much more expensive amps and replace them with one or two DCA1222.

 

[WineOfTheVeins]

I'll definitely keep you informed. Thanks again. I have an Anthem integrated amp being ordered in, should be here Friday. I'm going to make sure I'm happy with it before I keep it though, so keeping my options open. Also, if I can find something that works as well that is cheaper (this unit is $4500us MSRP) then might do that. I will let you all know how the Anthem STR runs, I have extremely high expectations for it.

Other thing if I do go the separates route, is I'd need a decent preamp or receiver. I'm not too fond of AVRs, I have a Denon now for my 5.1 setup and it's great for that job, but I want something that doesn't have all that extra crap I don't need. I only want 2 channel or 2.1 max, I don't need video. Networking etc is a plus, but QUALITY is the biggest concern. I want the purest experience possible, money isn't too big of a concern for the right products.

 

[Verdinut]

Not sure why there is a weight argument being made. Is it some how related to build quality or reliability?

Personally, within limits, I am more confident on the build solidity of a heavier amplifier. Of course, there are advantages to lightness if the product is to be frequently moved around. Another advantage is cheaper shipping charges. I am not implying anything here, but a serious manufacturer should not sacrifice on the quality of components by building lighter gear.
The heavier stuff most often gives to so many people including myself that feeling of having a more seriously built product, often without any valid reasoning behind it.