Background music is too loud compared to dialogs

[shkumar4963]

In my 2.1 setup, I find that while watching a movie, the music is much louder than the dialogs.

What is wrong?

How to fix it?

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[lovinthehd]

Your choice in movies? Maybe due to your lack of a center channel? Who knows from that description?

 

[Johnny2Bad]

Dialog is exactly what the original 5.1 multichannel setups (and all other multichannel formats, right up to 11.2) were designed to clarify with the centre channel. However depending on how audio gets to your 2.1 system, you could adjust the parameters. For example don't use "movie mode" audio in your display's setup if that's where the audio comes from, because that setting assumes a centre channel is present. Select a 2-channel mode (the terms might be different, but you can figure that out).

 

[shkumar4963]

Dialog is exactly what the original 5.1 multichannel setups (and all other multichannel formats, right up to 11.2) were designed to clarify with the centre channel. However depending on how audio gets to your 2.1 system, you could adjust the parameters. For example don't use "movie mode" audio in your display's setup if that's where the audio comes from, because that setting assumes a centre channel is present. Select a 2-channel mode (the terms might be different, but you can figure that out).

Thanks. I am in two channel mode. But will check if somehow the AVR had detected Dolby in the HDMI stream and turned something on. The reason for the question was to see if this problem can be solved without a center speaker.

The problem is that there is no space for a center speaker in my set up. So I play 2.1 or 4.1. And yes, the AVR knows that there is no center speaker.

Is there any way to fix it without a center speaker?

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[lovinthehd]

What is impossible about using a center?

 

[shkumar4963]

Thanks. Sorry for the incomplete info. I have a 4.1 set up. Movies are from Amazon fire stick. AVR is Yamaha 5.1 without room correction. Left and right speakers are ls50 and sub is svs sb12 mad.

One another fact: background music while someone is talking is ok. It is when music comes on between scenes or when there is no dialog that is very very loud.

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[lovinthehd]

Do you turn the surrounds off? Or you listen in a multi-ch stereo mode?

 

[shkumar4963]

Do you turn the surrounds off? Or you listen in a multi-ch stereo mode?

Just 2 channel audio. Surround speakers are not on.

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[shkumar4963]

What is impossible about using a center?

I have a roll up projector screen that comes all the way down till the furniture in my family/ music/ movie room.

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[Johnny2Bad]

I have a roll up projector screen that comes all the way down till the furniture in my family/ music/ movie room.

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Then set up two identical, small speakers that will be just outside the left and right screen dimensions when watching film, and set those as the centre channel. You could even set them atop your existing L and R front speakers if you must.

2x 8ohm speakers will create a 4 ohm load, which your AVR *should* be able to drive. 2x 4 ohm speakers can be wired to create an 8 ohm load, which your AVR will almost certainly be able to drive.

Then set your audio settings to multichannel.

They will combine to create a phantom centre channel that will sound like there was one speaker in the centre of the screen.

The centre "dialog" channel isn't terribly demanding as far as low and high frequencies go, so almost any speaker will do. Nor do they need to be very big.

If you are unsure as to how to wire the two up when there is only one channel's speaker terminals on your AVR, post back and someone will help you out.

If you had used the search function, you would have read this answer already.

 

[lovinthehd]

I have a roll up projector screen that comes all the way down till the furniture in my family/ music/ movie room.

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I assume it's not an acoustically transparent screen then....can't move the furniture a bit for the spot underneath the screen?

 

[shkumar4963]

Then set up two identical, small speakers that will be just outside the left and right screen dimensions when watching film, and set those as the centre channel. You could even set them atop your existing L and R front speakers if you must.

2x 8ohm speakers will create a 4 ohm load, which your AVR *should* be able to drive. 2x 4 ohm speakers can be wired to create an 8 ohm load, which your AVR will almost certainly be able to drive.

Then set your audio settings to multichannel.

They will combine to create a phantom centre channel that will sound like there was one speaker in the centre of the screen.

The centre "dialog" channel isn't terribly demanding as far as low and high frequencies go, so almost any speaker will do. Nor do they need to be very big.

If you are unsure as to how to wire the two up when there is only one channel's speaker terminals on your AVR, post back and someone will help you out.

If you had used the search function, you would have read this answer already.

Thanks. As per the 5.1 specifications, center channel does contain the full range of frequencies, not just the dialog. I will look for that spec and confirm it for myself.

But your suggestion is a good one. For starters. I can just use my ls50s as two center speaker and see if it fixes the problem. If it does I can buy two more speakers and find a place for them.

As per the AVR manual, by choosing no center speaker, I am doing essentially the same - sending center channel frequencies to left and right speakers. But may be this will work better. Sure does not hurt to try before buying two more speakers.

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[shkumar4963]

I assume it's not an acoustically transparent screen then....can't move the furniture a bit for the spot underneath the screen?

Yes unfortunately. Other than this music volume problem, the two ls50s do produce a very stable and clear center image and the dialogs are super clear.

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[lovinthehd]

Yes unfortunately. Other than this music volume problem, the two ls50s do produce a very stable and clear center image and the dialogs are super clear.

If they're so good then it must be the movies' mix then?

 

[Johnny2Bad]

Thanks. As per the 5.1 specifications, center channel does contain the full range of frequencies, not just the dialog. I will look for that spec and confirm it for myself.

But your suggestion is a good one. For starters. I can just use my ls50s as two center speaker and see if it fixes the problem. If it does I can buy two more speakers and find a place for them.

As per the AVR manual, by choosing no center speaker, I am doing essentially the same - sending center channel frequencies to left and right speakers. But may be this will work better. Sure does not hurt to try before buying two more speakers.

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Centre Channel is specified to potentially contain the full range of frequencies (why not? It's not a difficult criteria for an amp or a speaker). However you are missing the intended use of the Centre Channel, and what actual audio the engineers who generate the multichannel mix will put there. It's designed to contain the dialog to make that aspect of the film clearer and to reflect that actors generally speak while onscreen. The other four (or six, etc) channels take care of offscreen effects.

Having the dialog on the centre channel (mostly, there is some phase information in the front L + R as well, but it's not intended to be primary and is just a function of the practical necessities of how to mix the soundtrack) means also that the dialog volume can now be independently controlled instead of being locked into the levels present in the other channels.

 

[shkumar4963]

If they're so good then it must be the movies' mix then?

Ok. I will check other movies.

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[theJman]

But your suggestion is a good one. For starters. I can just use my ls50s as two center speaker and see if it fixes the problem. If it does I can buy two more speakers and find a place for them.

Using dual center channel speakers spaced to either side of the screen is likely to create more problems then it solves. The audio track coming from the center is intended to radiate from separate single source. Unless you're talking about a 'phantom' center configuration - and not just 2 speakers attempting to replicate a single speaker - then I doubt you'll find two centers being anything other then a bad idea.

 

[Johnny2Bad]

Using dual center channel speakers spaced to either side of the screen is likely to create more problems then it solves. The audio track coming from the center is intended to radiate from separate single source. Unless you're talking about a 'phantom' center configuration - and not just 2 speakers attempting to replicate a single speaker - then I doubt you'll find two centers being anything other then a bad idea.

Two loudspeakers in a stereo configuration but playing back a mono track will generate an image where all content appears to be from the centre of the L-R spacing. And as for it being "a bad idea", well, it's not an ideal solution (a proper centre channel speaker is the ideal solution) but when it can't be implemented ideally, you have to look at what options you actually have. A mono mix from a stereo pair is a good option and definitely works, as it has for many others with a similar problem to the OP.

Note that this solution still maintains his L-R front channel mix (essentially, he has a L-R for channels 1 and 3 and a L-R mono summing signal for channel 2 of a 5.1/7.1 etc mix. In other words he is using four speakers to compensate for not being able to use three for the front mix.

If for some reason you do a mono mix of a properly spaced L-R pair and the image does NOT come from the centre of the soundstage, throw them in the garbage and get speakers that are not junk, which is easy to do, since even cheap speakers can pull it off.

 

[herbu]

In my 2.1 setup, I find that while watching a movie, the music is much louder than the dialogs.

What is wrong?

How to fix it?

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Nothing is "wrong" with your setup. I hear the same thing, have for years, and have tried a number of things to "fix" it.

It is a function of how the sound track is mixed, not your system. However, there is something you can try. Try using "direct" mode. It seems to subdue some of the extraneous sounds and clarify the voices... at least to us. We end up using it a lot for TV.

 

[shkumar4963]

Nothing is "wrong" with your setup. I hear the same thing, have for years, and have tried a number of things to "fix" it.

It is a function of how the sound track is mixed, not your system. However, there is something you can try. Try using "direct" mode. It seems to subdue some of the extraneous sounds and clarify the voices... at least to us. We end up using it a lot for TV.

Thanks. After much trial and error, that is the conclusion I came to as well. It is not the clarity of the dialog that bothers me. It is when the music comes on when dialogs are not present. That music is just too loud. I guess that in some movies, that is how the sound track has been composed.

Thanks for your thoughts.

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