Should I get a power amp??

[CB22]

I'm listing to CD's about the same -35db or -30. Movies I'm generally listening at around -15 to -10db on the xbox. This probably explains it: "CDs are recorded at a higher average level vs movies."

Also I'm not able to raise the volume coming out of the Xbox .

Was watching no country for old men and the scene at the end where the car gets blind sided... Holly crap, the house and ears shook for about half a second. So I'm now 99.9% sure this confirms your point as you said earlier KEW, "However, you still have the full power of the AVR available for any peaks."

 

[mtrycrafts]

I must admit I have not bothered to adjust my own source levels, but that is because I typically listen to CD's at around -35dB and listen to movies at around -27dB. IOW when I switch between formats it is not overbearing loud or so quiet that I feel the need to mess with these settings. I am OCD in some ways, but not on this count. I am more annoyed by the difference in volume between a CD from the 80's vs a new one!

What type of difference do you see between CD's and movies regarding where you set the volume knob?

I watch movies from about -15 to -18, especially if spouse is away. With about -20.
Cds not a lot recently but I would say -20 to -26? Unless it is the 1812 and want to hear my subs where it pegs to power meter
Then about -15 or so
I guess not much different from your delta

 

[yepimonfire]

Also you fellas have any suggestions on how to properly calibrate a receiver?

A c weighted spl meter and rew. I do manual calibrations since room correction software usually screws everything up in my experience. Audyssey usually gets the level right, but not always. If often gets the sub distance totally wrong. Many will say to leave it if it gives you a distance far greater than the actual distance, but measurements using rew’s timing reference has shown it does indeed screw it up, which can not only be heard as a huge “bass hole”, but can be seen in measurements as a jacked up frequency response, especially at the xover point, and an equally jacked up phase response.

If you have a laptop, the mic that comes with Audyssey equipped receiver is actually good enough (others have measured it at +-2dB) to use plugged into the mic input to take measurements. Go ahead and set it up using Audyssey, but always double check it. Just sit the spl meter at ear height in the center most seat and run through the test tones, all speakers should be calibrated to 75dB C weighted slow. Secondly, sit in the mlp and listen to the tones as well, sometimes just because a speaker measures 75dB, it may sound quieter or louder due to HF reflections, which the spl meter is blind to.

Once you finish doing that, if the receiver has a “full mono” or similar setting that plays a mono sound through all channels, sit exactly in the center channel of the mlp and play something familiar. If the distance and levels are set correctly, the sound should sound like it’s coming almost from where you head is located. If it’s shifted to either the front/back or left/right, recheck your settings or level and distance.

Most built in Manual equalizers suck, but you can still double check Audyssey to make sure it hasn’t made an error using rew. Simply plug the calibrations into a laptop, sit it in the mlp, and run a 0-20000hz sweep, applya 1/12 smoothing to the graph, and check for any anomalies.


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[yepimonfire]

I must admit I have not bothered to adjust my own source levels, but that is because I typically listen to CD's at around -35dB and listen to movies at around -27dB. IOW when I switch between formats it is not overbearing loud or so quiet that I feel the need to mess with these settings. I am OCD in some ways, but not on this count. I am more annoyed by the difference in volume between a CD from the 80's vs a new one!

What type of difference do you see between CD's and movies regarding where you set the volume knob?

I must be nuts then. I usually listen to music at -25-20dB, and movies at -10dB. If my wife didn’t complain about the volume, and it wouldn’t destroy my subwoofer, I’d watch movies exactly at 0dB. With dynamic music such as classical, I often listen at -15dB to -10dB.

Average music listening volume for me is 75-85dB C and movies average 75dB on the dialog, with peaks of 105-110dB during very loud or LFE heavy parts. My hearing is completely normal, and I’m still in my mid twenties, so it’s not that I can’t hear, it’s just that I enjoy having a realistic playback level.
A weighted, I never exceed 80dB for music, so it’s entirely safe.

Luckily, Klipsch’s efficiency allows me to reach realistic volumes with modest power and no distortion. I’d probably be that person who blows small bookshelf speakers.


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[PENG]

I'm listing to CD's about the same -35db or -30. Movies I'm generally listening at around -15 to -10db on the xbox. This probably explains it: "CDs are recorded at a higher average level vs movies."

Also I'm not able to raise the volume coming out of the Xbox .

Was watching no country for old men and the scene at the end where the car gets blind sided... Holly crap, the house and ears shook for about half a second. So I'm now 99.9% sure this confirms your point as you said earlier KEW, "However, you still have the full power of the AVR available for any peaks."

As Yepi mentioned earlier, it depends on the room size too. In fact the room size and the distance between you and the speakers should tell us what really is going on. With the speakers you have the MRX710 should not need any help from an external amp in a medium to medium large room (THX standard).

I expect the MRX720 to have power output similar to that of the MRX710; and according to the S&V bench test, the MRX710 was just slightly less powerful than the Denon AVR-X4200W.

The MRX720's room correction system is supposed to be excellent, so you really should read the instructions thoroughly and then run ARC again, follow the instructions to the letter this time and you should be fine. I highly doubt you can do better by doing it manually.

 

[KEW]

I must be nuts then. I usually listen to music at -25-20dB, and movies at -10dB. If my wife didn’t complain about the volume, and it wouldn’t destroy my subwoofer, I’d watch movies exactly at 0dB. With dynamic music such as classical, I often listen at -15dB to -10dB.

I can stand -10dB for those "special scenes" in movies, but no way could I do -10 for an entire movie. I suspect the difference is I have not calibrated the levels to verify reference is reference...just been cruising along, fat, dumb, and happy on this count!

 

[PENG]

I can stand -10dB for those "special scenes" in movies, but no way could I do -10 for an entire movie. I suspect the difference is I have not calibrated the levels to verify reference is reference...just been cruising along, fat, dumb, and happy on this count!

Or he may have increased the sub level by quite a few dB after calibration. Most people can withstand higher dB contributed by the sub(s) but not the mid and high drivers. Or it could be a combinations of things.

 

[yepimonfire]

Or he may have increased the sub level by quite a few dB after calibration. Most people can withstand higher dB contributed by the sub(s) but not the mid and high drivers. Or it could be a combinations of things.

Nope. The whole system is calibrated to 75dB at -30dBfs pink noise. I don’t run the sub hot, don’t need to at that volume level and my sub bottoms out above 105dB @11’ so I couldn’t run it hot anyways.

I do have room treatments, which reduces the buildup of high frequency reflections, I’ve noticed higher volumes are much more tolerable with a properly treated room. It’s definitely quite loud during the peaks, but no louder than your average commercial cinemas.


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[yepimonfire]

As Yepi mentioned earlier, it depends on the room size too. In fact the room size and the distance between you and the speakers should tell us what really is going on. With the speakers you have the MRX710 should not need any help from an external amp in a medium to medium large room (THX standard).

I expect the MRX720 to have power output similar to that of the MRX710; and according to the S&V bench test, the MRX710 was just slightly less powerful than the Denon AVR-X4200W.

The MRX720's room correction system is supposed to be excellent, so you really should read the instructions thoroughly and then run ARC again, follow the instructions to the letter this time and you should be fine. I highly doubt you can do better by doing it manually.

Always a good idea to double check it though.


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[PENG]

I do have room treatments, which reduces the buildup of high frequency reflections, I’ve noticed higher volumes are much more tolerable with a properly treated room. It’s definitely quite loud during the peaks, but no louder than your average commercial cinemas.


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That explains it, thanks.

 

[CB22]

To jump in again, "I do have room treatments, which reduces the buildup of high frequency reflections, I’ve noticed higher volumes are much more tolerable with a properly treated room. It’s definitely quite loud during the peaks, but no louder than your average commercial cinemas. "

Now that I've got all the audio gear set up about right, I think room treatments is what I'm gonna move on to next. I got a rug last weekend could tell a slightly noticeable difference in the sound - I guess the hard wood floor really was like a ping-pong table for bouncing around those high frequencies. I have MY room in the house that my GF has no say in and I can pretty much do what ever I want. On a side not my girlfriend has still not noticed the Anthem receiver. Thank god she would flip a bi*ch if she found out how much that thing cost. Anyone have any recommendations of affordable brands for acoustical treatments? First I want to get - bass traps, Second - wall and maybe ceiling panels. (got the tools and pretty good with my hands so I'm thinking of DIY project, time permitted)

I came across these which have good reviews but look at that price:
https://www.amazon.com/Auralex-Acoustics-SonoFlat-Absorption-16-Panels/dp/B00114L3DW/ref=sr_1_23?ie=UTF8&qid=1510681572&sr=8-23&keywords=burgundy+acoustic+panel

 

[yepimonfire]

To jump in again, "I do have room treatments, which reduces the buildup of high frequency reflections, I’ve noticed higher volumes are much more tolerable with a properly treated room. It’s definitely quite loud during the peaks, but no louder than your average commercial cinemas. "

Now that I've got all the audio gear set up about right, I think room treatments is what I'm gonna move on to next. I got a rug last weekend could tell a slightly noticeable difference in the sound - I guess the hard wood floor really was like a ping-pong table for bouncing around those high frequencies. I have MY room in the house that my GF has no say in and I can pretty much do what ever I want. On a side not my girlfriend has still not noticed the Anthem receiver. Thank god she would flip a bi*ch if she found out how much that thing cost. Anyone have any recommendations of affordable brands for acoustical treatments? First I want to get - bass traps, Second - wall and maybe ceiling panels. (got the tools and pretty good with my hands so I'm thinking of DIY project, time permitted)

I came across these which have good reviews but look at that price:
https://www.amazon.com/Auralex-Acoustics-SonoFlat-Absorption-16-Panels/dp/B00114L3DW/ref=sr_1_23?ie=UTF8&qid=1510681572&sr=8-23&keywords=burgundy+acoustic+panel

I’d use the 2” wedgies, they have the best NRC out of the panels and work well above 500hz. Alternatively, you could check out gik or ats and get fiberglass based absorption. Foam wedgies will likely work better in a small room since the angle of incidence to flat panels can cause reflections off the surface of flat panels.

Ceiling panels are more important than wall panels. Whether or not you want to absorb the lateral reflections really depends on the speakers dispersion and the room size/speaker distance to wall. I went with absorption for the lateral reflections because I have a fairly narrow room, and wider controlled directivity speakers placed less than 2’ from the side walls, causing full bandwidth HF reflections that were just too damn loud relative to the direct sound. The panels simply attentuated everything from 500hz on up, giving better focus to the soundstage.

I would start by placing 24”x36”-48” of absorption at the mid point between the front speakers and mlp on the ceiling, and a rug at the same spot on the floor. Assure you tweeters are at ear level or you will be placing the panels in the wrong spot. Grab a tape measure and measure the distance to the seating area. If it’s 10’, for example, the ceiling panel should be placed at 5’ from the speakers in the middle of the ceiling. Do the same with the surrounds.

Rear wall absorption is important if you are closer than 7-10’ from it. I’d just start with ceiling/floor treatments and see how it sounds first. Absorption of lateral reflections isn’t cut and dry, it can either help or harm the sound, depending on the room placement. If my room was wider and I had at least 5’ from the side walls, I’d probably just leave the wall bare. I use t-pins to attach the Auralex panels. No way am I gonna glue that stuff to the wall. This also allows you to experiment with placement. Once you get the ceiling/floor and rear wall, you can try the side walls, you might get good results, or it might sound worse. Since you’re using Klipsch speakers, the directivity should be fairly constant. The further off axis the wall is from the horn, the lower in level the HF reflections will be, since each 15 degree angle off axis drops the level by about 2dB. You really want the reflections to be at least 10dB down below the direct sound. With placement near the wall, the angle of incidence of the early reflections may fall within 45 degrees or even less, and in that case, lateral absorption is helpful. The dispersion pattern should be similar to this

As you can see, at 45 degrees, everything from 1.5khz-14khz is about 6dB down.

You also absolutely do not want a dead room. Just a few panels in some key problem spots is enough.

As far as bass trapping goes, it’s really impractical. To actually get absorption below 100hz requires very thick panels. You’re better off both economically and aesthetically using multiple subs, proper sub placement, seating placement, and eq at low frequencies to solve bass issues.

https://www.amazon.com/Auralex-Acoustics-Studiofoam-Absorption-24-Panels/dp/B0002D05KA?th=1&psc=1

This should be plenty to get started. Don’t cheap out and use off brands, most of them have tested poorly compared to Auralex.

This is a good site for calculating the areas of early reflections
http://www.acoustic.ua/forms/calculator4.en.html

Make sure you measure from the tweeter center, not the baffle edge.

You should re run room correction post treatment as well.


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