Vinyl skipping

[lovinthehd]

So that's not dangerous? The manual is not giving "from-to" measures, but one specific for the cart that he has.
View attachment 22786

Ortofon specs indicate a range of 1.6-2.0g, and a recommendation of 1.8g. What is the setting your friend used? What do you mean "dangerous"?

 

[killdozzer]

Ortofon specs indicate a range of 1.6-2.0g, and a recommendation of 1.8g. What is the setting your friend used? What do you mean "dangerous"?

He set it exactly like in the manual of the TT, between 17 and 18, or rather 1.7 and 1.8.

Dangerous like bad for records or shortening the life of the needle or both.

 

[lovinthehd]

He set it exactly like in the manual of the TT, between 17 and 18, or rather 1.7 and 1.8.

Dangerous like bad for records or shortening the life of the needle or both.

Actually the manual only says 18mN (equivalent to 1.8g per the manual) but I'd experiment with at least 2.0g for now. A little extra tracking force won't hurt.

Also, can he confirm he put the anti-skating string thing on the 2nd groove of the anti-skating stub? Personally I'd also go thru the entire cartridge mounting in case the factory goofed.

 

[slipperybidness]

Always from the middle on to the center. It gets worse closer to the end of the record. It is almost all records, but it is pronounced with the long lasting ones.

How is he storing his records? Vertical? In a horizontal pile? Has he tried a problematic record on any other TT? Maybe take one to a dealer to audition?

 

[KEW]

When you say it always skips "from the middle to the center", I assume it skates from the middle of the grooved section to the center of the record. Is this correct?
Many are saying the anti-skate is set too high, but I would interpret that as the opposite, as I have always assumed the natural skate direction was from the outside towards the center. If I am right in that assumption, you would need more anti-skating.

My low-brow, old-school approach would be to increase the anti-skate setting and see if that solves the issues. If it does, and did not require a big change, I would probably just live with that change. However, if a large change in the anti-skate setting is required, it should be considered good info for trouble-shooting and hopefully the contemporary vinyl guys here can help figure it out.

I guess another question is: when the stylus skips does it land and play a while before skipping again, or does it typically bounce across the record until it reaches the center.

 

[killdozzer]

Actually the manual only says 18mN (equivalent to 1.8g per the manual) but I'd experiment with at least 2.0g for now. A little extra tracking force won't hurt.

Also, can he confirm he put the anti-skating string thing on the 2nd groove of the anti-skating stub? Personally I'd also go thru the entire cartridge mounting in case the factory goofed.

OK, thank you! I'll find out the rest of the details.

How is he storing his records? Vertical? In a horizontal pile? Has he tried a problematic record on any other TT? Maybe take one to a dealer to audition?

Upright, like books. He has a working TT borrowed and the records don't skip.

 

[slipperybidness]

OK, thank you! I'll find out the rest of the details.


Upright, like books. He has a working TT borrowed and the records don't skip.

OK, fair enough, I was just beginning to suspect warped records.

 

[killdozzer]

When you say it always skips "from the middle to the center", I assume it skates from the middle of the grooved section to the center of the record. Is this correct?

No, first half of the record no skipping. In the middle a skip or two. Towards end / center a lot and not being able to finish the record.

I meant it gets worse towards the end.

 

[lovinthehd]

No, first half of the record no skipping. In the middle a skip or two. Towards end / center a lot and not being able to finish the record.

I meant it gets worse towards the end.

And it skips towards the center or to the rim?

 

[killdozzer]

And it skips towards the center or to the rim?

Rim. It repeats a portion of the song playing.

 

[KEW]

Rim. It repeats a portion of the song playing.

Oops!
I misunderstood/misread that!
So yes, a reduction (not increase) in anti-skating should be tested to see if it solves the problem and how much of a reduction is required.

 

[3db]

Things getting complicated, I'm afraid.

He did everything by the book or so it seems. He even use two separate level gauges to set the TT straight.

As @TLS Guy said, the tone arm balance was done at zero.

Arm was fitted up front by the manufacturer, so he didn't change anything.

He was trying to asses (bare eye, I'm afraid) that the tone arm is parallel to the record when playing.

All the records skip back i.e. repeat a part of the song.

I will say that we're missing the "overhang" step, but how is this adjusted? I understood what it is (even downloaded all the instructions and protractor calculators from vinylengine), but I don't see a way to change it.

@3db is this adjustable? I'm asking you since you said you have the same model.

I got the dealer to install and align the cartridge as I have fat fingers.

 

[TLS Guy]

No, first half of the record no skipping. In the middle a skip or two. Towards end / center a lot and not being able to finish the record.

I meant it gets worse towards the end.

I have been thinking about this.

Make sure the arm is properly balanced. It is vital zero balance is done first.

Cartridge downforce adjustment The counterweight (6) supplied is suitable for cartridges weighing between 6,5 - 8,5g (weight no. 08). An alternative counterweight for cartridges weighing between 4,5 - 6g (weight no. 80) is available as an accessory part. Pushing carefully, turn the counterweight (6) onto the rear end of the tonearm tube (9), so that the downforce scale (6a) shows towards the front of the player. Lower the armlift and position the cartridge in the space between arm rest and platter. Carefully rotate the counterweight (6) until the armtube balances out. The arm should return to the balanced position if it is moved up or down. This adjustment must be done carefully. Do not forget to remove the cartridge protection cap if fitted. Once the arm is correctly balanced return it to the rest. Hold the counterweight (6) without moving it, and gently revolve the downforce scale ring (6a) until the zero is in line with the anti-skating stub (15). Check whether the arm still balances out. Rotate the counterweight counter clockwise (seen from the front) to adjust the downforce according to the cartridge manufacturer's recommendations. One mark on the scale represents 1 mN (= 0,1g / 0,1 Pond) of downforce. Please note: Adjust the downforce prior to installing the anti-skating weight. The recommended downforce for the Ortofon 2M Red cartridge is 17,5mN.

I have a strong suspicion though the horizontal bearing on that arm is broken.

The quality control on those turntables seems to have slipped. They have not been on my recommended list for sometime.

 

[killdozzer]

I have been thinking about this.

Make sure the arm is properly balanced. It is vital zero balance is done first.

Cartridge downforce adjustment The counterweight (6) supplied is suitable for cartridges weighing between 6,5 - 8,5g (weight no. 08). An alternative counterweight for cartridges weighing between 4,5 - 6g (weight no. 80) is available as an accessory part. Pushing carefully, turn the counterweight (6) onto the rear end of the tonearm tube (9), so that the downforce scale (6a) shows towards the front of the player. Lower the armlift and position the cartridge in the space between arm rest and platter. Carefully rotate the counterweight (6) until the armtube balances out. The arm should return to the balanced position if it is moved up or down. This adjustment must be done carefully. Do not forget to remove the cartridge protection cap if fitted. Once the arm is correctly balanced return it to the rest. Hold the counterweight (6) without moving it, and gently revolve the downforce scale ring (6a) until the zero is in line with the anti-skating stub (15). Check whether the arm still balances out. Rotate the counterweight counter clockwise (seen from the front) to adjust the downforce according to the cartridge manufacturer's recommendations. One mark on the scale represents 1 mN (= 0,1g / 0,1 Pond) of downforce. Please note: Adjust the downforce prior to installing the anti-skating weight. The recommended downforce for the Ortofon 2M Red cartridge is 17,5mN.

I have a strong suspicion though the horizontal bearing on that arm is broken.

The quality control on those turntables seems to have slipped. They have not been on my recommended list for sometime.

Once again, I don't how to thank you enough. I'll go through the procedure first chance I get.

 

[Bucknekked]

Be nice & gentle with ur friend and tell him to prominently display his turntable and get an amp/receiver that can read a USB flash stick with high bit rate mp3(lame)/FLAC/WAV files and/or has analog inputs for a CD player that can also accept a USB flash stick for the best of both worlds.

My work here is done.

This has been a public service announcement.

you mean like this? Substitute an anonymous grey computer for the USB.
Audio slight of hand. Wonderful idea. You can also put a vinyl record on the TT and
spin it while choosing the wonderfully quiet digital file to actually play.
Your idea Ponzio is genius

 

[KEW]

I have a strong suspicion though the horizontal bearing on that arm is broken.

Is this something that can be readily evaluated/detected/verified?

 

[Ponzio]

you mean like this? Substitute an anonymous grey computer for the USB.
Audio slight of hand. Wonderful idea. You can also put a vinyl record on the TT and
spin it while choosing the wonderfully quiet digital file to actually play.
Your idea Ponzio is genius

Now we're cookin'

 

[3db]

Once again, I don't how to thank you enough. I'll go through the procedure first chance I get.

Did your friend not follow the instructions supplied by ProJect when balancing the arm? TLS basically reiterated the instructions in the manual.

 

[Mikado463]

dozer, curiosity is getting to me, did your buddy figure this out yet ?

 

[TLS Guy]

Is this something that can be readily evaluated/detected/verified?

Yes, you should be able to feel a catch or grittiness if you are sensitive to bearing problems.