Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Spartan
I've sent you an incomplete list of parameters for the 4 ohm driver V2. That's all I have on this transducer.

It's impossible to get a clean listing such as listed figures in such a post. No matter how you try to type the listing, when you post the reply, the disposition is always changed. Should you have problems deciphering the info, please don't hesitate to ask.

Cheers,
 
Eng-399

Eng-399

Audioholic Intern
Your looking for the winisd perimeters on the ht18v2 driver right.
 
NINaudio

NINaudio

Audioholic Samurai
Here is a closer view of the frequency response from 10-200 Hz with no smoothing. Any idea what could be causing that large dip around 92 Hz? Should I post up a new thread for that?
 

Attachments

NINaudio

NINaudio

Audioholic Samurai
I've attached a pdf drawing of the room. Ceiling height is 86 inches. Sub is in the corner to the left of the couch, firing into the room. Based on doing the sub crawl, this was the best position for it.
 

Attachments

TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
I've attached a pdf drawing of the room. Ceiling height is 86 inches. Sub is in the corner to the left of the couch, firing into the room. Based on doing the sub crawl, this was the best position for it.
Length:
68" = 205 hz
88" = 161 hz
12.5'= 90 hz (sum of previous two dimensions - they're connected)
19' = 59 hz (144" + 88" = 19.3' - rounded)
275" = 49 hz
25' = 45 hz (19.3' + 68") AND (275" + 25") - thats two modes stacking on eachother

Width:
95" = 141 hz
140" = 94 hz
200" = 68 hz
240" = 56 hz

Height: (is this whole long room only about 7 feet in height the whole way through?)
88" = 155 hz

Would it be possible to see pics of this room, to be better understand all of the boundaries?

Please show a graph without Audyssey - the limitations of an omni mic in a room it does not understand may have corrupted the bass as shown by the abrupt amplitude increase around 40 hz. The construction of your room may lower actual modal frequencies from the above predictions.

It sounds like you have two subwoofers?

Sorry to keep asking questions, but this is only the beginning! When it comes to reproducing bass in small rooms (small relative to the wavelengths being produced), everything matters. As you can see with the predictions above, multiple modes are influencing what you are hearing and they line up with your measurement, despite the inclusion of Audyssey.

Can DSP inputs be made anywhere in this system? Two subwoofers may not be enough to control everything going on here, and DSP can only do so much, so I will do my best to work with what you have.
 
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NINaudio

NINaudio

Audioholic Samurai
Hi Warrior. There is only one sub. Yes, the ceiling height is the same throughout the entire space, except for a drop in ceiling height of approx 8 inches over the tv area. It is a finished basement: engineered flooring over concrete slab. Walls are 1/2" drywall over 1 inch insulating foam over cinderblocks. Pics to come in a moment.

EDIT: I don't have a mini-dsp or anything else right now. Only Audyssey XT32 w/ subeq on the receiver.
 
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NINaudio

NINaudio

Audioholic Samurai
Warrior, how would I show a graph without audyssey? Would just turning it off in my AVR do that, or does it still apply some eq functions to the sub channel?
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Warrior, how would I show a graph without audyssey? Would just turning it off in my AVR do that, or does it still apply some eq functions to the sub channel?
I would switch the AVR to "Pure Direct" as a quick and "easy to verify" method of ensuring that Audyssey is off.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
won't that also not use the sub?
Depends on your settings. You can have stereo output low content to the sub if you set it that way.

Also, have you messed with the room simulator in REW? I may have asked this before, but I don't remember.

I ask because it does a pretty good job of simulating the "sub crawl" and is much quicker at showing you what potential nulls and peaks you could have in your room.
 
NINaudio

NINaudio

Audioholic Samurai
Depends on your settings. You can have stereo output low content to the sub if you set it that way.

Also, have you messed with the room simulator in REW? I may have asked this before, but I don't remember.

I ask because it does a pretty good job of simulating the "sub crawl" and is much quicker at showing you what potential nulls and peaks you could have in your room.
I've looked at the room simulator, but it seems to be geared towards strictly rectangular rooms, which mine isn't, so I didn't really look into it much more
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
I've looked at the room simulator, but it seems to be geared towards strictly rectangular rooms, which mine isn't, so I didn't really look into it much more
Kinda sorta. You can input room dimensions and choose if walls are "open" or not so you can get a pretty good idea.
 
TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
Warrior, how would I show a graph without audyssey? Would just turning it off in my AVR do that, or does it still apply some eq functions to the sub channel?
KEW's advice should work, you just have to tell the Denon to use the subwoofer.

To be clear, the measurements you posted are with the sub in the corner nearest the couch, like in the pic, yes?

What is the LFE crossover?
(couldn't find it mentioned)

It is very difficult to satisfy all seats with one sub, even in a rectangular room, that said, you're measuring pretty well with car subs! And a car sub that is snuggled next to a giant absorber - the couch.

As I recall, the X4000 has preset bands of EQ, yes? Are any of them even close to 90 hz? You may also be able to boost a few dB that way and minimize the null a bit if you leave the sub where it is.

Assuming your LFE crossover is above 90 hz: If the sub were moved to where the DVD rack is, to the left of the TV, it might help cancel out most of that null, the wavelengths of those frequencies should put most of the null behind the seats. Your seats should be just far enough forward so to limit the excitation of the 3rd length mode, but there in the lies the trade off with one sub - You can't focus that pressure source to all seats at all frequencies. Measure and see!

Because there is only one sub, moving it can solve one problem and create more. But if you do try the left corner just keep it close to the walls, use your ears with familiar content to adjust the distance in inches to that corner, locating the Left loudspeaker to the right of the sub, nearest the TV.

Should you add more subs, I'd suggest getting smaller units that can be hung near the ceiling since your floor space is limited.

Sorry for the bold, trying to make it easier to read.
 
NINaudio

NINaudio

Audioholic Samurai
Yes, the graph posted is with the sub in the corner next to the couch. I have the speakers crossed at 80 hz in the AVR (they measure pretty flat in room down to 40 hz), and the LFE crossover at 100 hz. Any higher and I find that it becomes easy to localize the sub and that male voices bleed into it a bit. I've measured with different x-over points and it didn't seem to make much difference with that null. I'm mostly just concerned with the MLP as I'm generally the hard to please one. I mean, everyone else that heard it thought the SC4000 was perfectly fine and I was insane for wanting something better. :D This sub is no joke! I was always very impressed with it.

Setting Audyssey to graphic eq means I lose DEQ which stinks. And the frequencies I can adjust there are 53, 125, and 250 Hz, so fairly limited.

My next upgrade will be to get a mini-dsp so I can have a little more control over what's going on with EQ and some DIY sound absorbing panels behind the couch for the higher frequency ranges since my space is very reflective. For xmas I'm asking for the UM-18 flatpack. If I have the time to move everything around I will try that front corner as well.
 
TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
Yes, the graph posted is with the sub in the corner next to the couch. I have the speakers crossed at 80 hz in the AVR (they measure pretty flat in room down to 40 hz), and the LFE crossover at 100 hz. Any higher and I find that it becomes easy to localize the sub and that male voices bleed into it a bit. I've measured with different x-over points and it didn't seem to make much difference with that null. I'm mostly just concerned with the MLP as I'm generally the hard to please one. I mean, everyone else that heard it thought the SC4000 was perfectly fine and I was insane for wanting something better. :D This sub is no joke! I was always very impressed with it.

Setting Audyssey to graphic eq means I lose DEQ which stinks. And the frequencies I can adjust there are 53, 125, and 250 Hz, so fairly limited.

My next upgrade will be to get a mini-dsp so I can have a little more control over what's going on with EQ and some DIY sound absorbing panels behind the couch for the higher frequency ranges since my space is very reflective. For xmas I'm asking for the UM-18 flatpack. If I have the time to move everything around I will try that front corner as well.

Sounds fun! Please post about it!
 

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