Slim speakers for 300b SET

[Kyngfish]

hola. So I have a set of full range drivers on a 300b SET. Sounds awesome. One catch. Wife hates the size of the speakers. Since these amps are relatively low power I need something very sensitive. Looked at the Salk or Philharmonic options and they seem a tad low. Ideally I still want towers. Just thinner? Any suggestions?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Without know specific it would be hard to recommend something specific, but with tube amps, you'd want something which is super easy to power, like 8ohm and crazy high sensitivity, like 94 or higher.
JBL Studio 590 were recently on sale, but looks like sale is off for now, they could repeat it again come black friday....
Typically these reserved for larger horn speakers. Going with skinny speakers, most likely you'd need to get a solid state amp or good avr.

 

[<eargiant]

How about Tektons?

I haven't heard any myself so I can't say for sure but they are definitely very efficient. May be something to consider.

http://www.tektondesign.com/products.html

 

[Kyngfish]

How about Tektons?

I haven't heard any myself so I can't say for sure but they are definitely very efficient. May be something to consider.

http://www.tektondesign.com/products.html

I’ve looked at Tektons on and off again for a long time, but I never pulled the trigger. Mostly because there aren’t enough people I know using them and recommending them. Unlike the Salks or other similar boutique manufacturers. They could be fantastic. But it’s a 1200 dollar leap of faith...

 

[Ricardojoa]

Check out omega super3

 

[TLS Guy]

hola. So I have a set of full range drivers on a 300b SET. Sounds awesome. One catch. Wife hates the size of the speakers. Since these amps are relatively low power I need something very sensitive. Looked at the Salk or Philharmonic options and they seem a tad low. Ideally I still want towers. Just thinner? Any suggestions?

You need to divorce you wife or your SET.

That unit although rated at 8 watts, has really unacceptable distortion over 1 watt. In addition a speaker must not go lower at any point than the rated output transformer tap, and should be twice the impedance over most of the range.

That really rules out any speaker with a crossover network. You really are pretty much limited to a Lowther driver. The PM2A is the most favored for that amp. It has an enormous 2 Tesla Magnet and a sensitivity of 95.5 db 1 watt 1 meter. In a good horn like the Medallion 2 which was designed for that driver it has a decent bass response to 40 Hz.

As long as you hang on to that amp your wife will not like your choice of speakers. May be you should move your rig to another room, or may be your wife.

For any decent results from that amp, Lowther is really you only option.

Lowther Medallion Horn

If you have gone down the rabbit hole you have chosen, then you can't go down a mole hole.

 

[ski2xblack]

If you need speakers that meet some WAF dictated form factor, you will have less and less negotiating room with Hoffman's Iron Law with regards to the speakers, and you're already severely limited there by only having 8 watts or so on tap. If you want small form factor speakers, you need more power to drive them.

Here is a possible course of action:
1. Find some sucker to pay a premium for the 300b amp.
2. Use the proceeds for a pair of super sexy Salks and proper amplification. FWIW, I paid far less for an ATI602 amplifier than the typical cost of a single 300b tube.
3. Live happily ever after.

Having been around the tube block myself, I can understand if you don't want to forego that silky single ended sound. I'll always have one such amp in the quiver. One lesson I've learned is that you don't have to spend inordinate amounts of money to get it. I use a home brew amp that uses unheralded sweep tubes, parts cost a paltry ~$300. But going down this particular rabbit hole does start with the speakers, and they will necessarily be large to have any hope of useful sensitivity and extension with low powered amps. If you persist with the low power, rather than going with smaller speakers, you'll instead have to further violate WAF to get the most out of it, hence "man caves" sequestered off in unused rooms of the house. Got one of those?

 

[Pogre]

You need to divorce you wife or your SET.

That unit although rated at 8 watts, has really unacceptable distortion over 1 watt. In addition a speaker must not go lower at any point than the rated output transformer tap, and should be twice the impedance over most of the range.

That really rules out any speaker with a crossover network. You really are pretty much limited to a Lowther driver. The PM2A is the most favored for that amp. It has an enormous 2 Tesla Magnet and a sensitivity of 95.5 db 1 watt 1 meter. In a good horn like the Medallion 2 which was designed for that driver it has a decent bass response to 40 Hz.

As long as you hang on to that amp your wife will not like your choice of speakers. May be you should move your rig to another room, or may be your wife.

For any decent results from that amp, Lowther is really you only option.

Lowther Medallion Horn

If you have gone down the rabbit hole you have chosen, then you can't go down a mole hole.

It fascinates me how the construction of the "port" (don't know the right term, transmission line?) can affect the sensitivity and dig so deep with smaller drivers. I'm becoming more and more interested in these designs.

 

[Swerd]

hola. So I have a set of full range drivers on a 300b SET. Sounds awesome. One catch. Wife hates the size of the speakers. Since these amps are relatively low power I need something very sensitive. Looked at the Salk or Philharmonic options and they seem a tad low. Ideally I still want towers. Just thinner? Any suggestions?

There are two Salk models, the Exotica Monitor (a 2-way bookshelf speaker) and the Exotica 3 (the same drivers as in the 2-way, in a tower cabinet with self-powered woofers). They are designed for greater sensitivity, about 92 dB. They aren't cheap, but they do sound very good. Salk recommends 20 wpc for them, still more than your 8 watts.

How about Tektons?

I've heard them. They may have high sensitivity, but they also have LOW fidelity. I wouldn't bother with them.

 

[Swerd]

It fascinates me how the construction of the "port" (don't know the right term, transmission line?) can affect the sensitivity and dig so deep with smaller drivers.

The "port" in the speaker TLS Guy referred to is a folded horn. These horns are usually folded to fit inside a shorter cabinet. The horn throat (or pipe) gets wider as it gets further away from the driver. If I understand correctly, horns are used to enhance sensitivity of low bass response. Imagine an ear trumpet in reverse.

Transmission line speaker cabinets can look similar to horns, especially if they are folded. But they are straight or tapered pipes, where the wide end of the pipe is near the driver and the narrow end is at the cabinet opening. They work like tuned pipes in a pipe organ, where a column of air vibrates at a defined frequency that depends on the pipe length.

The SongTowers you heard are in a modified transmission line cabinet, called a mass loaded transmission line (MLTL). It uses a short wide port opening at the end of a straight pipe cabinet, which functions to let a shorter pipe length work as if its longer.

 

[<eargiant]

There are two Salk models, the Exotica Monitor (a 2-way bookshelf speaker) and the Exotica 3 (the same drivers as in the 2-way, in a tower cabinet with self-powered woofers). They are designed for greater sensitivity, about 92 dB. They aren't cheap, but they do sound very good. Salk recommends 20 wpc for them, still more than your 8 watts.
I've heard them. They may have high sensitivity, but they also have LOW fidelity. I wouldn't bother with them.

Hmm, Alnico-interesting. Unfortunately, he said $1,200 is a "leap of faith" so it sounds like @ $13,000 the Exoticas would be out of the question (even the $6K monitors).

Definitely not slim, but just in case price is not an obstacle, maybe the OP's wife will like the finish on the Devore Orangutan 96's. By all accounts, they bring out what SET is all about and rated at 10 ohms & 96db they are right up SET alley .

 

[TLS Guy]

It fascinates me how the construction of the "port" (don't know the right term, transmission line?) can affect the sensitivity and dig so deep with smaller drivers. I'm becoming more and more interested in these designs.

Yes, it is a horn. There are many musical horn instruments. The are the most efficient musical transformers. They match the high impedance throat to the low impedance mouth.

Before electric amps and speakers, the horns matched the diaphragm driven by a steel or fiber needle to the room. Many were quite loud with no amplification.

And like this.

Paul Voight produced a paper coned driver with an enormous electromagnet and horn loaded it. That was the Voight corner horn.

That was in the thirties, and widely recognized as the worlds first high fidelity speaker. This was the birth of Lowther, which are still going strong and not owned by any venture vultures. They are easily the worlds oldest high fidelity speaker manufacturer.

The principle is low Q drivers, with very high flux density. This makes for very efficient and sensitive speakers, but bass deficient, so a horn is required to keep everything in balance.

Despite what Swerd says they actually sound very good.

 

[slipperybidness]

I use a home brew amp that uses unheralded sweep tubes, parts cost a paltry ~$300.

Do you have any links or info on this build???

I would be quite interested to have a look.

 

[TLS Guy]

Do you have any links or info on this build???

I would be quite interested to have a look.

Can't find that one since the link to the US Mr Lowther site is broken.

However there are a lot of plans on the Lowther UK site.

The medallion seems pretty much identical to the Signaturetwo by Andreas Mau.

 

[ski2xblack]

Slippery, I sent you a PM. You'll probably laugh when you see it, it's just about the most rudimentary cathode biased singled ended circuit possible.

 

[TLS Guy]

Sent you a PM. You'll probably laugh when you see it, it's just about the most rudimentary cathode biased singled ended circuit possible.

I have not received your PM.

 

[ski2xblack]

Sorry TLS, I think we got our wires crossed, the PM was to someone else, but I just sent you one on another topic.