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Ras777

Audioholic
Looking to get some advice on how many ceiling speakers I should install to get the best immersive experience. I have a dedicated HT room that is 21x18.5x8. My original plan was four speakers but my research has me thinking that 6 would be needed to get the best experience. Of course, this is going to require a new receiver. I am currently running a 7.2 configuration. Any advice regarding Atmos or DTX would be appreciated.

Panasonic-TC-P65VT50
Marantz-SR6007
Emotiva-XPA-3
Oppo-BDP-103
Apperion-Verus Grand Towers and Center
-Verus Forte Satellites
Two HSU VTF-15H MK2 Subs
 
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Roen

Roen

Audioholic
What pre/pro or receiver are you running? That might be the first thing you upgrade.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Yeah, I don't think you need 6 height speakers for Atmos, unless your room is huge. If you really need 6 height speakers, you will have to wait for the Emotiva RMC-1 to come out, unless you want to spend over 20k for the other processors that can do that. The RMC-1 is only going to be $5k.

Anyway, this is what you need to read if you are doing Atmos.
 
Bryce_H

Bryce_H

Senior Audioholic
I recently went from a 5.1 to a 5.4.1 with a Denon X4300h and love it. I followed the linked guide.
 
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Ras777

Audioholic
Thanks, ShadyJ...that is exactly what I am looking for. I will be sticking with the original plan with four ceiling speakers. Definitely not worth spending that kind of money on a pre/pro. Any recommendations on ceiling speakers? I have 8ft ceilings so I am concerned with them being too localized. I would like something that would work well with the Aperions and have plenty of dispersion.
 
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yepimonfire

Audioholic Samurai
Thanks, ShadyJ...that is exactly what I am looking for. I will be sticking with the original plan with four ceiling speakers. Definitely not worth spending that kind of money on a pre/pro. Any recommendations on ceiling speakers? I have 8ft ceilings so I am concerned with them being too localized. I would like something that would work well with the Aperions and have plenty of dispersion.
You want localization in an atmos setup. Dolby recommends speakers with a dispersion pattern of 100 degrees, afaik no such speaker exists currently. What you put in the ceiling and how you set it up depends on your seating arrangement. If possible, I would skip in ceilings and mount bookshelves to the ceiling, atmos objects are full range and there’s no point in compromising your setup with weak height speakers that can’t keep up with the bed channels. If you have two rows, I would point the somewhere in between the two. Mount them sideways if you can. Most speakers have lousy vertical dispersion.


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Ras777

Audioholic
Well, this is turning out to be a bit more complicated than I originally envisioned. I have watched several videos on you tube including the ones from Gene and I am getting conflicting information, to say the least.
For starters, Gene shuns the Atmos enabled speakers and is not a fan of bouncing sound waves off the ceiling. Pioneer's Andrew Jones has a video out that states the exact opposite, he stated that ceiling speakers sound to localized and bouncing the sound off the ceiling actually sounds better in an Atmos set up.

Yepimonfire, are you sure you want Atmos height speakers to be localized?? Atmos is not channel based and if the speakers sound too localized you would lose the immersive effect right? Am I missing something here? Localization was one of Gene's complaints when he demoed Atmos. Only having 8ft ceilings is going to make this a bit more challenging, but I thought there would be speakers on the market that would have high enough dispersion to offset the height of my ceilings.

I only have one row of seating. I never really considered mounting bookshelf speakers on my ceiling. Any other recommendations on ceiling speakers for Atmos?
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Agree ras777. You don't want atmos speakers to be localized. And atmos enabled speakers are not as good. I believe Andrew jones(credible as he is) has an agenda to sell speakers so maybe that's a factor? Maybe not.
 
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Ras777

Audioholic
Call me skeptical, but at this point, I am not convinced that dedicated ceiling speakers at 8ft will be better then the Dolby enabled speakers. My ceiling is perfectly flat and made of drywall and provide good reflection for the enabled speakers. This is what Dolby has to say about it in their July 2017 installation guide that Shadyj provided me in a previous post.

Comparison to overhead speakers Dolby Atmos enabled speakers produce a slightly more diffuse overhead audio experience that is quite lifelike and, in some cases, may be preferable to the sound that originates from overhead speakers. If the ceiling is low or you have to mount the speakers on overhead trusses or brackets, overhead speakers may be too close to you as you listen. The audio may be distracting because you’ll hear and 12 notice the output from each speaker instead of feeling immersed in an atmosphere in which sounds occur naturally overhead. In this environment, Dolby Atmos enabled speakers may be a better solution for reproducing the height plane of sound, similar to what you would hear in a cinema. In a cinema, the overhead speakers are located high in the auditorium and naturally create a more diffuse experience. Using Dolby Atmos enabled speakers produces a similar experience: the reflection of sound off the ceiling makes the overhead effect sound diffuse, which results in the room sounding larger. Audio mixers and experts who have auditioned Dolby Atmos enabled speakers agree that the sound these speakers produce can be preferable to the sound of dedicated overhead speakers.

Please feel free to opine. I really would like to get as many opinions as possible before I make a decision on type and brand of speakers.

Thanks in advance for your advice. I just want to do this right the first time around.
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
I have heard Atmos demos with both ceiling speakers and Atmos bounce speakers. Do the ceiling speakers, it is a lot more clear what is supposed to be happening. The bouncey speakers presented more of a ambient impression of what is supposed to be occurring.
 
Bryce_H

Bryce_H

Senior Audioholic
I used 4 polk MC60 as I busted the bank on my X4300h. I think they sound great and don't have a localization issue. I have watched several atmos movies on the system.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
I will be using ceiling speakers in my Atmos setup. Wouldn't even consider a speaker that bounces sound to be good. It could be interesting, but Dolby recommends ceiling speakers. That's how it is in the theaters.
 
Roen

Roen

Audioholic
I will be using ceiling speakers in my Atmos setup. Wouldn't even consider a speaker that bounces sound to be good. It could be interesting, but Dolby recommends ceiling speakers. That's how it is in the theaters.
They also recommend ceiling heights larger than most rooms have, otherwise you won't get enough diffusion.


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panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
They also recommend ceiling heights larger than most rooms have, otherwise you won't get enough diffusion.


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That is true. Mine is 8' so I'm getting speakers that should be quite diffuse, but I still need to make sure.
 
Roen

Roen

Audioholic
Difficulties trying to get 14 ft ceilings in my future HT room lol.
 
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yepimonfire

Audioholic Samurai
They also recommend ceiling heights larger than most rooms have, otherwise you won't get enough diffusion.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Atmos is going to be a compromise in home theaters no matter how you do it unless you have a huge room and the cash for a trinnov altitude and 32 speakers. Either way, from upfiring speakers (the better ones anyway), front height speakers, 5.1.2 with low ceilings, all the way to dedicated HTs with 7.1.4 systems, it’s a massive improvement from 7.1/5.1. I’d rather atmos than no atmos even if I can’t do it perfectly. There are enough solutions for any situation that anybody should be able to work with it.


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MR.MAGOO

MR.MAGOO

Audioholic Field Marshall
I do not consider Atmos an 'upgrade', more like just another artificially enhanced electronic gimmick. Just my 2 cents...:p

"Buy our receiver! The Volume control has been upgraded! It now goes up to 11!" :D
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
I do not consider Atmos an 'upgrade', more like just another artificially enhanced electronic gimmick. Just my 2 cents...:p

"Buy our receiver! The Volume control has been upgraded! It now goes up to 11!" :D
IMO, old school Pro logic and matrixed surround, and dsp modes are gimmicks. Atmos is actually built from the ground up a lot differently than those before. I don't believe that much brain power went into conceiving a "#11" volume button to sell more receivers. Atmos works.
 
MR.MAGOO

MR.MAGOO

Audioholic Field Marshall
IMO, old school Pro logic and matrixed surround, and dsp modes are gimmicks. Atmos is actually built from the ground up a lot differently than those before. I don't believe that much brain power went into conceiving a "#11" volume button to sell more receivers. Atmos works.
I'm sure it works if one has the proper setup, i.e. ceiling speakers, as opposed to the 'bouncy-house' effect.
 

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