Recommendations on speaker setup vandersteen vs nht 2.9 or starting over!

[lewi1032]

My equipment -
Denon AVR-X3400H
Vandersteen 2ce and Nht 2.9 front floors
Nht ac1 center
Pioneer SP-FS522 rear surround
Svs pb1000 sub

Ok so I have a few questions to say the least and I need some advice.......
First of all I would say I am a 50/50 movie/music listener and my music collection is of all genre's, We watch a lot of tv but I really enjoy my music! I do not have a audiophile ear but I really want a great sound setup for my home theater and music listening so please take it easy on my newbie questions as I know enough about it to probably make me dangerous...lol..... I have read so much on things my head is spinning and so I have quite a few questions that I appreciate in advance with the help!!! I just purchased the new Denon AVR-X3400H to control all of my 4k hdr demands but I just dont think it cuts the mustard on powering my system because right now I have the nht 2.9's hooked up with the mentioned speakers above and I have to turn it up to 75% to get a good volume out of it and I really am just not impressed at all.

I just bought and go what I think was a steal on a set of mint almost new Nht 2.9 and Vandersteen 2ce so I guess if anyone has experience with these which would you prefer as I am sure I will be getting rid of one set of these, I have read up on both the nht 2.9 and Vandersteen 2ce and I am suppose to really be blown away by the sound so I guess question #1 would be which do you prefer of the two and why?

Question #2 would be if you do prefer the vandersteen 2ce over the nht's then should I get a different center speaker or stick with the nht ac1 that I have?

Question #3 I have read a lot about pro amps vs home amps....I really have a damn head ache after reading this because I am more uncertain about it then I was before I read up on it....If I am running the audio through my AVR then if I get enough power to my speakers will it really sound any different as far as the details/warm/bright/etc?

Question #4 Would I benefit from a pre-amp/power amp setup and still use my denon avr?

I really have a lot more questions but I need these answered I guess before I can ask the others......I really want something that makes me say wow at the end of the day when listening and especially to music, I dont mind spending upwards of $2000 for a good amplifier or fantastic used amplifier if it will really make the difference I need to make these speakers sound awesome but if they arent going to be great then I need to ditch them and spend the $2000 on something that will..

Again thanks for the help in advance!

 

[Pogre]

Have you heard those speakers (NHT 2.9) with any other amplification or receiver? I'm still digging a little, but it would appear they need a little special attention in placement. NHT recommends the rear of the cabinets to be 4" to 10" off the wall. Here's a review I found on them for an impression.

*Edit: Found some specs.

Description: Four-way, floorstanding, acoustic-suspension loudspeaker. Drive-units: 1" fluid-cooled aluminum-dome tweeter, 4" polypropylene-cone upper-midrange unit, 6.5" polypropylene-cone lower-midrange unit; 10" long-throw polypropylene-cone woofer.
Crossover frequencies: 100Hz, 320Hz, 3.5kHz.
Frequency response: 26Hz-26kHz, ±3dB. Sensitivity: 87dB/W/m. Impedance: 6 ohms nominal, 3.1 ohms minimum. Recommended amplifier power: 30-250Wpc.
Dimensions: 39.5" H by 7" W by 21.5" D. Weight: 78 lbs.
Finishes: gloss black; mahogany or sycamore, add $175/pair.

If those specs are accurate your receiver shouldn't have too much trouble driving them to more than sufficient levels (depending on how far you sit from them). However, read that review I linked. Placement with those speakers seems pretty critical. They recommend closer to a wall than most speakers.

 

[Winkleswizard]

I would concur with Pogre's thoughts. Unless your room is larger than average, as long as the speakers are not damaged, would work on placement. If there is nothing between them, would either get them further apart or put some furniture in between them. If this does not help, a review I read suggests moving them closer to the back wall. If you biwire them, you can try reversing phase on the low end and see what happens.

As designs go, I cannot offer much on the NHTs. I had Vandersteens and they were solid music speakers in many regards. However, never could get bass (I liked) out of the passive radiator design. As I started building my own, used my Vandys as a reference. They had the lowest distortion specs I have ever measured. This is a tribute to both their design and build quality.

Which do you like? I generally find that once you get into reputable higher end speakers, your preferences matter more. I suspect both would have cleaner bass than usual based on their designs. If you are like a number of folks, you may prefer the sound of ported or more open box bass (I do). In this case, your neither option may be the answer!

Ww

 

[lovinthehd]

As to #3 I've used a variety of receivers and amps, including pro and consumer amps, and it is about spl mostly (to a degree impedance load needs). I wouldn't buy an amp to act as a tone control or to magically come up with details aside from your speakers' capabilities.

If you do want a power amp your Denon will work just fine as pre-amp.

No experience with your speakers, choose the ones you like the best (and center accordingly).

The volume control on the Denon isn't expressed in percentages...are you using the absolute or relative volume scale and what is the specific reading? The volume scale is in dB either way and is logarithmic....

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

#1 - which do you prefer of the two and why?

#2 - if you do prefer the vandersteen 2ce over the nht's then should I get a different center speaker or stick with the nht ac1 that I have?

#3 - if I get enough power to my speakers will it really sound any different as far as the details/warm/bright/etc?

#4 Would I benefit from a pre-amp/power amp setup and still use my denon avr?

1. NHT because the NHT has better speaker measurements and you already have the NHT Center speaker. I've own NHT bookshelf speakers in the past.

2. If you prefer the Vandersteen, then return the NHT center and get a Vandersteen center.

3 & 4. As for amps, I use the Denon X3100 to power the 4-ohm-100-pound speakers (rated for 100-500 Watts) in my 23'x22'x13' living room that is very open on 2 sides; listening distance is 17'.

If the Denon has enough power for your speakers, which I believe it does, then you won't gain anything by adding external amps or using separates. The Denon can sound every bit as good as the separates.

 

[Pogre]

1. NHT because the NHT has better speaker measurements and you already have the NHT Center speaker. I've own NHT bookshelf speakers in the past.

2. If you prefer the Vandersteen, then return the NHT center and get a Vandersteen center.

3. As for amps, I use the Denon X3100 to power the 4-ohm-100-pound speakers (rated for 100-500 Watts) in my 23'x22'x13' living room that is very open on 2 sides; listening distance is 17'.

The NHT's he has are floorstanders and the center is the Vandersteen, unless I read it wrong?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The NHT's he has are floorstanders and the center is the Vandersteen, unless I read it wrong?

The NHT Audio Center-1 Center speaker.

https://dk1xgl0d43mu1.cloudfront.net/user_files/nht/downloads/000/003/038/ac1manual.pdf?1427144483

 

[Pogre]

The NHT Audio Center-1 Center speaker.

https://dk1xgl0d43mu1.cloudfront.net/user_files/nht/downloads/000/003/038/ac1manual.pdf?1427144483

I see it now. He also has a pair of NHT 2.9 floorstanders.

My equipment -
Vandersteen 2ce and Nht 2.9 front floors
Nht ac1 center
Pioneer SP-FS522 rear surround
Svs pb1000 sub

Am I misunderstanding his question?

 

[lewi1032]

thank you all for your replys......I am going to do some tinkering with my setup's with the vandersteen and the nht but I think for the sound I am wanting then I need to spend the extra money on something like a pair of kef q900's with a matching center, ascend acoustics sierra-2 x 3, etc because what I am gathering even with a nice high end amp these arent going to sound anywhere near those or what I want? I do a lot of tv and movies but I also love to sit and listen to music and my music library is very diverse! what do you think of towers and a center or even bookshelf and a center and with a budget of $2000? would those blow these away? thanks again

 

[TheWarrior]

thank you all for your replys......I am going to do some tinkering with my setup's with the vandersteen and the nht but I think for the sound I am wanting then I need to spend the extra money on something like a pair of kef q900's with a matching center, ascend acoustics sierra-2 x 3, etc because what I am gathering even with a nice high end amp these arent going to sound anywhere near those or what I want? I do a lot of tv and movies but I also love to sit and listen to music and my music library is very diverse! what do you think of towers and a center or even bookshelf and a center and with a budget of $2000? would those blow these away? thanks again

That's a 4-way speaker with minimum 3.3ohm impedance, connected to a receiver's amp. You NEED an external amplifier to get those things to perform. You have what appears, could be a very good sounding speaker!

You didn't mention complaints of the sound quality, just lack of wow. There are some incredible deals right now for multichannel external amps both 15A and 20A. $500 or less depending on what you're looking at. Not a bad place to start even if you do tumble down the rabbit hole once you get them fired up and still feel the need for new speakers.

 

[lewi1032]

That's a 4-way speaker with minimum 3.3ohm impedance, connected to a receiver's amp. You NEED an external amplifier to get those things to perform. You have what appears, could be a very good sounding speaker!

You didn't mention complaints of the sound quality, just lack of wow. There are some incredible deals right now for multichannel external amps both 15A and 20A. $500 or less depending on what you're looking at. Not a bad place to start even if you do tumble down the rabbit hole once you get them fired up and still feel the need for new speakers.

I just got a crown k2 amplifier that I am going to fire up on these two sets of speakers nht/vandy's and I guess if i am not satisfied I will be asking what do you prefer for front three under $2500....lol

 

[pewternhrata]

I just got a crown k2 amplifier that I am going to fire up on these two sets of speakers nht/vandy's and I guess if i am not satisfied I will be asking what do you prefer for front three under $2500....lol

Front 3 I'd go svs ultras hands down.

 

[lewi1032]

Front 3 I'd go svs ultras hands down.

I have been looking at ascend acoustic sierra-2's thinking about 3 of those for the front.....also kef q900 are a great deal right now at $600 a set....

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

That's a 4-way speaker with minimum 3.3ohm impedance, connected to a receiver's amp. You NEED an external amplifier to get those things to perform.

I used to own towers with a 2.7 Ohms minimum impedance and were powered by a 50WPC 5.1 receiver. I played them as loud as I would play any speakers from 12FT distance. And they sounded pretty great.

 

[TheWarrior]

I used to own towers with a 2.7 Ohms minimum impedance and were powered by a 50WPC 5.1 receiver. I played them as loud as I would play any speakers from 12FT distance. And they sounded pretty great.

Great! But the OP is complaining that he needs to go above 75% volume and is not overly impressed, while having that receiver power surround speakers. There aren't many tower speakers used with surround sound that I'd recommend be run exclusively through a receiver, so given that they're talking about new speakers, first, I think a $500 amp would be requisite either way!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Great! But the OP is complaining that he needs to go above 75% volume and is not overly impressed, while having that receiver power surround speakers. There aren't many tower speakers used with surround sound that I'd recommend be run exclusively through a receiver, so given that they're talking about new speakers, first, I think a $500 amp would be requisite either way!

I don't think minimum impedance of 3.3 ohms, "75% volume", and "not impressed" guarantee the speakers need an "external amp". AVR (like Denon) can have great amp section inside their AVR.

Amp - the Denon 3400 has a good amp section.

Volume - If the Speaker Channel Level (Gain) setting on the Denon is too low (like -3.0), then it will require him to turn up the volume to "75%". That doesn't mean the amp is inadequate. If this is the case (which I've seen a lot of), all he has to do is increase the Speaker Channel Level (Gain) and then he won't have to turn up the volume to "75%". I have told some guys this. And after they increase the Speaker Channel Levels, somehow it always magically significantly improves the sound quality.

Not Impressed with Sound - as most members have already stated, this could have absolutely nothing to do with the power requirement. It could be the speakers, acoustics, processor settings.

But with all that being said, I think it's fine to try an external amp, if only to satisfy his curiosity.

I'm saying that speaking from my experience, adding an amp usually does absolutely nothing. But there are situations that call for it. And it doesn't hurt to try.

 

[TheWarrior]

I just got a crown k2 amplifier that I am going to fire up on these two sets of speakers nht/vandy's and I guess if i am not satisfied I will be asking what do you prefer for front three under $2500....lol

Any updates?

 

[Shawnb]

Do you have a sub? I'm asking because I have the avr x3300, and kef q300s with deftech 1000s for surround, and a lesser Dali vokal center, with a Hsu vtf3.5 sub and it sounds amazing. I often play at -10 decibels and when I get to -5 or 0 it's insane how loud and clear it is. My room is 20x15. I ran them on an integra with 130wpc for a bit and it didn't sound as good even though it had 30wpc more than the denon. A sub makes an amazing difference with all the speakers set to small. And even then the denon shows the energy use as less than 50%. Did you run audyssey? I have mine with audyssey, all xover set to 80. I can't imagine you're lacking wow if it's set the same.