Denon AVR X3300W HDMI input keeps blowing out..

[jjwelly]

If you want to completely isolate the cable box and the receiver, you can consider a pure fiber optic HDMI cable, but they're not at all cheap. There are less expensive hybrid optical/wire cables (optical for data, copper wire for control and power) but this won't help you. I had a problem with a single HDMI connection blowing up both the receiver and display HDMI modules on three separate occasions but using a pure optical connector has apparently solved this. Each event cost quite a bit to fix, even with warranty assistance, so it was worth it to address this way.

An example is here: http://www.mycablemart.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=6777 They are designed for very long runs so they don't come in interconnect lengths. This is probably the shortest length you'll find. Fortunately, you can simply keep the excess spooled with no loss in quality and run out as much as you need. I only needed 15 feet and bought a then-minimum 40 ft length. Best of all, the primary cost is in the fiber optic itself, and the end caps detach. You can replace the end cap transmitter/receiver set if they blow up, or you want to upgrade to a higher HDMI standard.

That's very interesting about the cable. I have replaced mine in between blow ups. I ordered a HDMI splitter and wondering if they would provide any protection. If not, it would provide a quick way to 'unplug' the cable when not in use by switching it to the other port.

I'm definitely going to keep this link of the fiber optic cable. That's really cool that this cable can provide the protection. I don't understand what the theory is, but I'm sure fascinated. Thanks for that. I'll keep an eye out for a deal on one of these.

 

[M Code]

Assuming U have adequate free-air space around the AVR, most likely U had a lightning strike... U may consider using a coax lightning arrestor like this available from Amazon & others...

https://www.amazon.com/Coaxial-Lightning-Arrester-GHz-N-Female/dp/B01E2URC8G

Just my $0.02...

 

[Blue Dude]

I'm definitely going to keep this link of the fiber optic cable. That's really cool that this cable can provide the protection. I don't understand what the theory is, but I'm sure fascinated. Thanks for that. I'll keep an eye out for a deal on one of these.

It takes very little current to kill an HDMI chip, and in my case apparently somehow one was being induced in the HDMI cable (or in the equipment, then carried by the cable) that destroyed both the TV and the receiver HDMI ports, and only those ports. A purely fiber optic cable uses USB-powered or port-powered transmitter and receiver dongles to create a bi-directional HDMI optical signal that can't carry an electrical current. It was designed for very long cable lengths without data loss, not electrical isolation. But it works just dandy as an isolator as well, as a by-the-way thing. The reason why the hybrid fiber optic cable wouldn't work is because only the data channels are encoded over the optical line; the control and power lines are still wire and can conduct a surge.

 

[jjwelly]

Well it rained again last night, and now it appears that yet another HDMI port is now blown. It is the port that the cable box was plugged into. The cable box was turned off, which I know probably doesn't protect anything, but I did have my HDMI splitter inline between the cable box and the receiver, with the splitter sending signal to the null port. This to me should have protected any surge coming through the HDMI. I don't think I can sustain this Denon. Seems a problem to me.

 

[panteragstk]

Well it rained again last night, and now it appears that yet another HDMI port is now blown. It is the port that the cable box was plugged into. The cable box was turned off, which I know probably doesn't protect anything, but I did have my HDMI splitter inline between the cable box and the receiver, with the splitter sending signal to the null port. This to me should have protected any surge coming through the HDMI. I don't think I can sustain this Denon. Seems a problem to me.

The splitter was a test. It failed the test. Sorry, but I thought it would protect it too. You have an issue with your STB. Trust us when we say that. You're going to be upset when you buy another AVR and it kills HDMI ports on it as well.

I really do hope the Denon is at fault, but I just don't think it is.

 

[jjwelly]

The splitter was a test. It failed the test. Sorry, but I thought it would protect it too. You have an issue with your STB. Trust us when we say that. You're going to be upset when you buy another AVR and it kills HDMI ports on it as well.

I really do hope the Denon is at fault, but I just don't think it is.

Thank you again everyone for the input.
Well, this is the third STB that I have had, and each one has caused this to happen exactly 1 time. So if it is the STB, it's safe to say that ALL charter STB will blow up HDMI ports. So now I've had this happen 3 times within a couple of months. If it's all charter STB's, I believe we would all be very aware of this issue. Charter is the largest cable company. If it didn't matter what brand of receiver you are using with a charter STB, then I believe we would still be aware of this, as it would be SO VERY common. Since it doesn't appear to be, I believe it's ether this specific receiver, or its my home/grounding. Nothing else seems to make any sense. But I'm no expert, yet...

I did pick up 3-8' grounding rods. I don't exactly know where to place them, or how far apart, nor how in the world I'm supposed to drive them completely into the ground. I'm trying to research all of this concurrently.

 

[M Code]

The splitter was a test. It failed the test. Sorry, but I thought it would protect it too. You have an issue with your STB. Trust us when we say that. You're going to be upset when you buy another AVR and it kills HDMI ports on it as well.

I really do hope the Denon is at fault, but I just don't think it is.

The splitter was not designed for that application. Any component an STB, AVR on the main cable line is subject to the lightning bolt charge.. A lightning bolt can be several million volts, the proper protection is the coax lightning arrestor I posted a link to several days ago..

Just my $0.02...

 

[jjwelly]

The splitter was not designed for that application. Any component an STB, AVR on the main cable line is subject to the lightning bolt charge.. A lightning bolt can be several million volts, the proper protection is the coax lightning arrestor I posted a link to several days ago..

Just my $0.02...

I hear ya. I just don't see how anything could travel along the other side of the splitter. Video signal does not travel when the splitter is on the other channel, so I find it hard to believe power can travel down the line. but I admit I am no pro. I suppose it does no harm to add one of the arrestors if it can help. Don't know if the problem is coming via the coax or the AC power..

 

[Blue Dude]

The HDMI splitter isn't a physical switch. It's simply another HDMI board that routes signals. Everything is still physically connected to everything else, so you shouldn't expect it to provide electrical isolation.

 

[panteragstk]

The HDMI splitter isn't a physical switch. It's simply another HDMI board that routes signals. Everything is still physically connected to everything else, so you shouldn't expect it to provide electrical isolation.

With the issues he's having I just thought it'd be something quick to try.

I still maintain that the cable to the STB is the issue, not the STB. I would get a volt meter and test the output of the STB as well as the coax going into it. If that is the issue, you're going to keep blowing things up until you fix that. At least you'll be able to eliminate it as the cause.

I wouldn't get any new components until you isolate the problem. Something is very wrong with your setup.

 

[jjwelly]

reading this article, he eludes the lightning enters thru the AC, and the surge tries to find ground thru COAX, as it's a easy source of ground. so if that's the case, the surge would be going OUT the receiver HDMI port trying to access ground via the coax. Or I'm misreading this...

https://www.cnet.com/forums/discussions/lightning-strike-fried-my-hdmi-port/

 

[panteragstk]

reading this article, he eludes the lightning enters thru the AC, and the surge tries to find ground thru COAX, as it's a easy source of ground. so if that's the case, the surge would be going OUT the receiver HDMI port trying to access ground via the coax. Or I'm misreading this...

https://www.cnet.com/forums/discussions/lightning-strike-fried-my-hdmi-port/

Sounds about right.

 

[jjwelly]

With the issues he's having I just thought it'd be something quick to try.

I still maintain that the cable to the STB is the issue, not the STB. I would get a volt meter and test the output of the STB as well as the coax going into it. If that is the issue, you're going to keep blowing things up until you fix that. At least you'll be able to eliminate it as the cause.

I wouldn't get any new components until you isolate the problem. Something is very wrong with your setup.

I have a voltmeter, but I'm not sure what I'm supposed to check. How do I check what you are stating? what are the 'acceptable values' of these?

 

[jjwelly]

Sounds about right.

IF this is indeed the case, then I suppose the only way to stop the surges from trying to EXIT through the coax is to use the fibre optic HDMI cable. A lightning coax arrestor wouldn't protect the device from this scenario, since the surge is coming from the AC, and trying to exit to ground via the HDMI/coax. An arrestor would still provide an easy ground via coax, and thus the HDMI port would blow. Only the fibre optic would isolate the surge and the coax ground. Is this correct thinking?

 

[panteragstk]

IF this is indeed the case, then I suppose the only way to stop the surges from trying to EXIT through the coax is to use the fibre optic HDMI cable. A lightning coax arrestor wouldn't protect the device from this scenario, since the surge is coming from the AC, and trying to exit to ground via the HDMI/coax. An arrestor would still provide an easy ground via coax, and thus the HDMI port would blow. Only the fibre optic would isolate the surge and the coax ground. Is this correct thinking?

Could be, but if the issue is that then I'm worried you'd end up killing the fibre optic adapter (which isn't cheap).

@PENG and @TLS Guy know more about this stuff than I do. I looked, but haven't been able to find a voltage/amperage spec for HDMI.

The other thing to try is remove HDMI from the equation and use component/optical out of your STB if it has those ports. I still wonder if that would transmit the electrical signal through component.

DO you have any sort of surge protector or UPS hooked up to your system? Most of the APC UPS out there will cut AC power if the voltage gets out of whack. That may help with this, but if it is truly lightning that is causing the issue then grounding is your only option.

There are a lot of variables to check in this situation since we still aren't 100% on the cause.

 

[jjwelly]

Could be, but if the issue is that then I'm worried you'd end up killing the fibre optic adapter (which isn't cheap).

@PENG and @TLS Guy know more about this stuff than I do. I looked, but haven't been able to find a voltage/amperage spec for HDMI.

The other thing to try is remove HDMI from the equation and use component/optical out of your STB if it has those ports. I still wonder if that would transmit the electrical signal through component.

DO you have any sort of surge protector or UPS hooked up to your system? Most of the APC UPS out there will cut AC power if the voltage gets out of whack. That may help with this, but if it is truly lightning that is causing the issue then grounding is your only option.

There are a lot of variables to check in this situation since we still aren't 100% on the cause.

It's my thinking that the fibre optic and using the component cables would do the same thing, which is to completely isolate the AC surge from the coax cable, which seems to be highly sought out as an easy ground by electrical surges. So I don't believe there would be any risk to the fibre optic cable, since the surge wouldn't be trying to escape out the hdmi port anymore. I guess it would try to find something else to blow up!!

I have the entertainment electronics on a new APC battery backup. this model https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01HDC236Q/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[lovinthehd]

OTOH you could press Denon for a new unit and see if it truly is a defective unit or not Might not help the second time around on Denon warranty if it happens again, tho...

 

[jjwelly]

OTOH you could press Denon for a new unit and see if it truly is a defective unit or not Might not help the second time around on Denon warranty if it happens again, tho...

they said they won't do anything, until I send it in to be fixed the second time and it breaks again. So they want me to mail it back to the repair center, and have them fix it a second time. If I go this route, then the amazon offer to give me a partial refund will expire, and I'll be locked in to dealing with Denon's warranty service, which is not very good IMO.

 

[panteragstk]

I've been reading and thinking about this a bit more. It seems we have one of two situations.

1. AC voltage is spiking during storms which is trying to get out through HDMI for some reason.
2. Coax is getting electrical surges which are also trying to get out through HDMI.

In either case we need to isolate both. I know of UPS, Power conditioners, and surge protectors that allow for coax and AC and also have the ability to be externally grounded. This to me is a good solution since it should isolate both from the STB and stop the electrical spikes from getting to it in the first place.

I'm starting to doubt whether or not it is AC. The reason is that if that were the case then more than your STB and receiver would be affected. Your TV and other appliances would have issues with that as well.

 

[jjwelly]

I've been reading and thinking about this a bit more. It seems we have one of two situations.

1. AC voltage is spiking during storms which is trying to get out through HDMI for some reason.
2. Coax is getting electrical surges which are also trying to get out through HDMI.

In either case we need to isolate both. I know of UPS, Power conditioners, and surge protectors that allow for coax and AC and also have the ability to be externally grounded. This to me is a good solution since it should isolate both from the STB and stop the electrical spikes from getting to it in the first place.

I'm starting to doubt whether or not it is AC. The reason is that if that were the case then more than your STB and receiver would be affected. Your TV and other appliances would have issues with that as well.

Well, from what I've been told, the ups and surge protectors are pretty worthless as far as protecting devices, especially lower voltage surges. They are not strong enough to blow/trip, but the HDMI boards are fragile enough to blow. Also Charter cable tech told me that the surge protectors that have coax in/out have issues with the STB/cable, as their service requires two way communication and they interfere with that. I'd still like to try one to see if the service works. But I don't believe this is isolating anything. And, an AC surge that is trying to find ground will still 'see' the coax as an easy route out the HDMI.

I agree with your second point too, or at least I did before this 'theory' of coax being the easiest source of grounding. I'm told that electricity, like water, uses the path of least resistance, and that is very often times a source of coax, as it is a great grounding source. If instead of running the STB HDMI into my receiver, I ran it into my TV, if theory proves true, then my TV would suffer the surge. It's following the coax. The ONLY way I think I can truly isolate the coax, is with using either component cables or fibre optic. But all this would do is isolate the coax from my receiver. The surge could still 'sniff' out the coax via the STB, but of course I could care less if the STB takes the surge. It won't blow though, since it wouldn't be taking it through any HDMI boards. So if I do use component or fibre optic, any surge would have to find the next path of least resistance, wherever that might be. All that said, its just a THEORY.

So I can do two things. isolate with a non hdmi cable. and I can beef up my home ground, which I'm currently researching. I have 3 new 8' rods, but I still need to figure out how to drive them into the ground, and what type of cable/wire to use to connect them to eachother, and how to connect to the box.