PSA S1500 vs. Rythmik F15HP

[KEW]

Lol, OK that one. OK, I am not absolutely 100 percent sure that Rythmik is using a higher performing driver, but I will seriously bet anyone a large sum of money that is the case. I am not certain that Rythmik is using a higher-performing driver in the same way I am not certain that there are no unicorns and elves living on Neptune. At data-bass.com, look at the THD sweeps of the FV15HP vs the XV30se, specifically the third harmonic. These sweeps tell you when the driver is getting stressed. Rythmik's single DS1510 can keep up pretty well with both of PSA's LAB15 variants. I have a hard time believing that these drivers are somehow equal, and that the servo technology can make up that difference. It's just not plausible. But hey, I could be wrong- about the unicorns and elves on Neptune!

Here is the driver used for the Rythmik LV12R:

From Jman's review of this sub:

The 12" driver isn't particularly impressive to behold, completely absent exotic materials for the cone or basket. Instead what you'll find seems pretty standard; treated paper cone, stamped steel basket and a fairly thin rubber surround (thin, as in material thickness). There are dual slug magnets, a sizable voice coil bump-out and a 1" cooling vent, but those are pretty standard for this class of subwoofer.

Yet this is a very good performing sub.

How do they get 20Hz at -3dB out of 2 8" drivers?

Brian Ding is quick to point out that his Servo system is different from all others and they do seem to get a lot of goody out of their components. Maybe it is snake oil, but I'm not willing to believe it and your elvs and unicorns is not a very convincing argument.

 

[shadyJ]

I know about the LV12r, I have used its predecessor the FV12 which used the same driver. It is a good driver. If you put it in a good sized ported cabinet, as Rythmik has done, you should be able to get good performance with or without the servo system. It looks like it has a decent motor, so there is no surprise that it would perform well, at least for the price.

As for Rythmik's dual 8" subs doing 20 Hz, what is the input level of that measurement? If you push that sub hard at all, I would bet you will see the low end compress very fast. Two 8" woofers do not even have the same surface area as a 12". What is more, they will have a relatively narrow area for the suspension, so they will have a high resonant frequency. Two 8"s is not a good way to go for 20 Hz, unless you put them in a bit ported cabinet tuned low. The servo drive can help the system ignore the resonant frequency at low levels, but the servo system can not overcome the driver's mechanical limitations. I could take a 5" driver and EQ it to have a f3 of 15 Hz, and even measure that result, but only at low input levels. Start putting any kind of juice in that driver at all and it will compress the low end even at modest loudness levels.

 

[Steve81]

Servo vs no servo aside, regarding Rythmik's DS1510 driver, Josh did have the following to say about it, interestingly enough on the PSA XV30Fse measurement thread at DB:

http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/227-powersound-audio-xv-30fse-measurements/

The only one that is less costly is the FV15HP but after shipping it isn't by much. Really the FV15HP over-achieves because the driver has a ton of stroke (It reminds me of a slightly more built TC Sounds Epic 15) and the servo control helps it keep the distortion down a bit so the driver can be pushed a bit harder in the deep bass without failing the distortion thresholds.

Well the PS drivers definitely have less excursion than the Ultra or Rhythmik. What I mean is the drivers in those two are producing huge excursions at max output. Even if the distortion seems lower the drivers are making mechanical distress noises and physically can't move much further. The PS drivers are too at some frequencies but what has me wondering are the distortion results.

Something else to keep in mind with the Rythmik results:

Also please note I tested that sub almost 4 years ago and it was one of the very first group of subs tested after aquiring CEA-2010 capability and I didn't yet have my ACO Pacific SPL calibrator and redundant backups.

 

[Roen]

Just ordered a B-Stock F15HP-SE.

Eagerly awaiting the arrival and comparison.

 

[speakerman39]

Just ordered a B-Stock F15HP-SE.

Eagerly awaiting the arrival and comparison.

Congrats Roen on your purchase! Looking forward to see which you prefer. As previously mentioned, originally I wanted a 15" Rythmik but just was more than I wanted to spend. BTW, if you can some pics would be nice too.


Cheers,

Phil

 

[Roen]

Congrats Roen on your purchase! Looking forward to see which you prefer. As previously mentioned, originally I wanted a 15" Rythmik but just was more than I wanted to spend. BTW, if you can some pics would be nice too.


Cheers,

Phil

I purchased a B-Stock F15HP-SE with a silver cone and a XLR3 amp for future balanced use.

First impressions, more output than the S1500 in the same spot.

Certain ranges, I think the S1500 does better, but that could be due to distortion raising audibility of those ranges.

Overall, the F15HP seems to be the more refined sub. I'm happy I sent the S1500 back and went for the F15HP. My wallet is not.

I still stand by my previous statement: the best $ value in the 15" sealed front-firing range is the S1500 by PSA, hands down. This wasn't a value purchase for me, rather it was to chase down the most audiophilic sub in a defined range ($1000 - $1500), which is where I place the F15HP.

Plus piano black to match my Sierra-2 wasn't a bad add on to boot.



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[Roen]

The F15HP-SE is definitely much more heftier to move than the S1500. I would imagine it's close to 50% heavier than the Matte Black Satin S1500. Muscling the Rythmik around was a bit more of a chore than the PSA.

I have more trouble lifting the F15HP-SE without the grill and all other packing materials than I do the S1500 in the box, packed to the brim with all relevant accessories.

 

[speakerman39]

I purchased a B-Stock F15HP-SE with a silver cone and a XLR3 amp for future balanced use.

First impressions, more output than the S1500 in the same spot.

Certain ranges, I think the S1500 does better, but that could be due to distortion raising audibility of those ranges.

Overall, the F15HP seems to be the more refined sub. I'm happy I sent the S1500 back and went for the F15HP. My wallet is not.

I still stand by my previous statement: the best $ value in the 15" sealed front-firing range is the S1500 by PSA, hands down. This wasn't a value purchase for me, rather it was to chase down the most audiophilic sub in a defined range ($1000 - $1500), which is where I place the F15HP.

Plus piano black to match my Sierra-2 wasn't a bad add on to boot.



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Oh wow! Very impressive! Not sure what is better the view you have OR the Rythmik. Love the looks of that driver! I also agree that the S1500 is also an impressive sub. But, for the money I do think the Hsu ULS 15 MK2 is a better price/performance value than the S1500. In the less than $900 range and /or less than $800 range B-stock there is nothing out there that can touch it inmho. If there is, I would certainly like to know about it. Congrats on your new toy!


Cheers,

Phil

 

[shadyJ]

Oh wow! Very impressive! Not sure what is better the view you have OR the Rythmik. Love the looks of that driver! I also agree that the S1500 is also an impressive sub. But, for the money I do think the Hsu ULS 15 MK2 is a better price/performance value than the S1500. In the less than $900 range and /or less than $800 range B-stock there is nothing out there that can touch it inmho. If there is, I would certainly like to know about it. Congrats on your new toy!


Cheers,

Phil

I agree, but for 900 you can get this beast. If you are not afraid of a little project, that will easily be able to outperform all of these.

 

[speakerman39]

I agree, but for 900 you can get this beast. If you are not afraid of a little project, that will easily be able to outperform all of these.

I was not referring to the DIY crowd. But, I agree that this kit looks to be stellar. Would love to see some measurements. Lots of guys here that could easily put this kit together. Unfortunately, I am NOT one of them. Great find!


Cheers,

Phil

 

[shadyJ]

I was not referring to the DIY crowd. But, I agree that this kit looks to be stellar. Would love to see some measurements. Lots of guys here that could easily put this kit together. Unfortunately, I am NOT one of them. Great find!


Cheers,

Phil

That is such an easy kit that it barely qualifies as DIY. I think you could do it with no problem. All you have to do is glue the wood panels together and clamp them. Painting it would be a bit more of a chore, but not too bad unless you insist on perfection.

 

[speakerman39]

That is such an easy kit that it barely qualifies as DIY. I think you could do it with no problem. All you have to do is glue the wood panels together and clamp them. Painting it would be a bit more of a chore, but not too bad unless you insist on perfection.

Yeah, was looking at the video and more of the specifics. This kit is truly a beast. The cabinet looks well braced as it would need to be given such a massive driver. Balanced inputs/outputs too. What use is the USB for though? Find that a bit confusing. That is certainly different.


Cheers,

Phil

 

[shadyJ]

Yeah, was looking at the video and more of the specifics. This kit is truly a beast. The cabinet looks well braced as it would need to be given such a massive driver. Balanced inputs/outputs too. What use is the USB for though? Find that a bit confusing. That is certainly different.


Cheers,

Phil

USB is very likely there to alter DSP settings.

 

[lovinthehd]

USB is very likely there to alter DSP settings.

In the manual describing the usb port:

2. USB Control:
Use for PC-GUI communication with custom PC software included with your amp.
Please refer to PC-GUI user guide
on page 5. USB also allows for
firmware update by Dayton Audio
release. See Page 10 for more on the system “flash” update process

 

[KEW]

Oh wow! Very impressive! Not sure what is better the view you have OR the Rythmik. Love the looks of that driver! I also agree that the S1500 is also an impressive sub. But, for the money I do think the Hsu ULS 15 MK2 is a better price/performance value than the S1500. In the less than $900 range and /or less than $800 range B-stock there is nothing out there that can touch it inmho. If there is, I would certainly like to know about it. Congrats on your new toy!


Cheers,

Phil

Don't forget the PSA S15!
Essentially the performance of the S1500 (</=0.3dB down from S1500), $45 more than the ULS-15 (after shipping).
You liked the S1500 better than the ULS-15 (did you have mkI or mkII?), so I guess the S15 would at qualify as "within touching distance"!

 

[speakerman39]

Don't forget the PSA S15!
Essentially the performance of the S1500 (</=0.3dB down from S1500), $45 more than the ULS-15 (after shipping).
You liked the S1500 better than the ULS-15 (did you have mkI or mkII?), so I guess the S15 would at qualify as "within touching distance"!

Yeah, very good point Kurt. Honestly, the Hsu ULS 15 MK2 and/or the PSA S1500 are the best subs that I have ever owned. Keep in mind, I am nearly a 100% music guy and not HT. However, both did very well in that regard as well.

Honestly, I ended up with dual S1500's and sold off the ULS 15 MK 2. However, I would have been just as happy with dual ULS 15 MK2's. For some reason or another, I was just able to get the S1500's dialed in a bit better. Nothing night or day, but noticeable nonetheless. Furthermore, I also preferred the look of the ULS 15 MK2 to the S1500.

I do agree that the S15 would need to be added to the conversation. I just do not have any direct experience with it. Knowing Tom V. I am sure it us a top-notch performer. Getting a B-stock ULS 15 MK2 for only $762 shipped in almost too good to be true inmho. Just not too much out there at that price that is going to best it. Perhaps, a B-stock S15 would be of high consideration as you point out.


Cheers,

Phil

 

[Roen]

Yeah, very good point Kurt. Honestly, the Hsu ULS 15 MK2 and/or the PSA S1500 are the best subs that I have ever owned. Keep in mind, I am nearly a 100% music guy and not HT. However, both did very well in that regard as well.

Honestly, I ended up with dual S1500's and sold off the ULS 15 MK 2. However, I would have been just as happy with dual ULS 15 MK2's. For some reason or another, I was just able to get the S1500's dialed in a bit better. Nothing night or day, but noticeable nonetheless. Furthermore, I also preferred the look of the ULS 15 MK2 to the S1500.

I do agree that the S15 would need to be added to the conversation. I just do not have any direct experience with it. Knowing Tom V. I am sure it us a top-notch performer. Getting a B-stock ULS 15 MK2 for only $762 shipped in almost too good to be true inmho. Just not too much out there at that price that is going to best it. Perhaps, a B-stock S15 would be of high consideration as you point out.


Cheers,

Phil

I also mentioned front firing as I wanted to exclude the S15, but yes, that should be a capable performer as well!


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[slipperybidness]

That is such an easy kit that it barely qualifies as DIY. I think you could do it with no problem. All you have to do is glue the wood panels together and clamp them. Painting it would be a bit more of a chore, but not too bad unless you insist on perfection.

You've heard those beasts?

Easily out-performs the F15HP?

I really like this stuff for painting, very utilitarian, but I like it, and you can't really mess it up
https://www.parts-express.com/acry-tech-duratex-black-1-quart-roller-grade-cabinet-texture-coating-kit-with-textured-3-r--260-111

 

[shadyJ]

You've heard those beasts?

Easily out-performs the F15HP?

I really like this stuff for painting, very utilitarian, but I like it, and you can't really mess it up
https://www.parts-express.com/acry-tech-duratex-black-1-quart-roller-grade-cabinet-texture-coating-kit-with-textured-3-r--260-111

I have heard one of the UM18 kits, didn't get a chance to really push it though. Josh Ricci tested the UM18, but he did it with a 20 kW amp. I would be interested in seeing what it can do with this kit, less amplifier power but larger enclosure.

 

[Steve81]

I would be interested in seeing what it can do with this kit, less amplifier power but larger enclosure.

FWIW, the enclosure for the kit looks to be marginally smaller (22" cubed for Josh's test box / 4.2CF by his reckoning vs 23x20x20.75 / 4.0CF by PE's reckoning). As far as power goes, looks like 1.2kW into 4 ohms matches up with Josh's 115dB/71V sweep nicely. Depending on how conservative the amp is rated, might be able to muster another dB or three for a burst, at least where the driver can make use of additional juice.