Denon AVR X3300W HDMI input keeps blowing out..

[jjwelly]

Hey All:

I bought a new X3300W receiver in January. In April, the HDMI input for CAB/SAT stopped working. I have my Charter cable running into it. Don't know if a storm or what caused it. I temporarily just used a different HDMI input for the cable to run into, until I had a chance to get it repaired. I had to send it in for warranty repair as there is no local service center anywhere near Saint Louis, MO. It was gone for about 2-3 weeks and then it came back working fine. Tonight, it happened again. CAB/SAT no longer works. I again tracked it down to this input not working. I am again using a different HDMI input for the Charter cable. I am using 2 other HDMI inputs, one for a PS3 and one for a WII U. Both of these have never had any issue working.

What should I do? Very unhappy with Denon, as I believe it's at fault. I can just run the Charter cable direct into my TV as an alternate input, but that sucks. That's why I bought this AVR Denon. Looking for advice on what to do.

 

[TLS Guy]

Hey All:

I bought a new X3300W receiver in January. In April, the HDMI input for CAB/SAT stopped working. I have my Charter cable running into it. Don't know if a storm or what caused it. I temporarily just used a different HDMI input for the cable to run into, until I had a chance to get it repaired. I had to send it in for warranty repair as there is no local service center anywhere near Saint Louis, MO. It was gone for about 2-3 weeks and then it came back working fine. Tonight, it happened again. CAB/SAT no longer works. I again tracked it down to this input not working. I am again using a different HDMI input for the Charter cable. I am using 2 other HDMI inputs, one for a PS3 and one for a WII U. Both of these have never had any issue working.

What should I do? Very unhappy with Denon, as I believe it's at fault. I can just run the Charter cable direct into my TV as an alternate input, but that sucks. That's why I bought this AVR Denon. Looking for advice on what to do.

This may well not be Denon's fault.

Since boards are not repairable these days, your unit had a new HDMI board installed. All inputs apart from the label are the same.

The fact that you have had trouble on the same input would lead me to strongly suspect that the Charter box is actually blowing up the HDMI input.

Certainly for me cable and satellite boxes are the worst and lowest quality devices in my system.

At one of our residences where there is a good over air signal, I get 45 channels in better quality that Comcast's dreadful boxes could provide. I use a Channel Master dual DVR of superb build quality.

At our main residence in the forest I can not get a good over air signal. So I have Direct TV. Over the years they have been the least reliable part of my system. Their new Genie system is much better, but their unit still has a slight internal ground loop. So I think I will have to redesign the ground plane this winter.

If there is any way to avoid cable and satellite service do so.

I would absolutely insist on another cable box or get another provider. Definitely your box should be changed out before your receiver comes back from repair.

 

[lovinthehd]

Was the same cable box used successfully with another avr? I'd also somewhat suspect the cable box especially as the avr tends to largely work. You mentioned storms, how might that affect the situation? You have plenty of slack on the cable box hdmi cable to prevent strain on the ports?

 

[jjwelly]

Thank you for the replies and info. I too suspected the cable box initially, and did exchange it for a 'new' one at the Charter offices. None of them are really new anymore, they just refurb/reissue them out. At any rate, the box was exchanged after the first event. I don't doubt that the cable boxes may be at fault, but at this point i've had two separate boxes produce the same result on this receiver. To me it seems like a problem with the Denon. I don't understand why a HDMI signal would damage a receiver, but it's happening.

It seems to me that sending it back into repair is a wasted effort. It's only been a month or so since it's been back from the last repair. Yet if it's a problem with the receivers, I would think there would be MANY more cases of this happening. There's a lot of Charter customers out there.

I mentioned storms, as its been asked of this before. Don't recall much of any lightning happening though, just rain and thunder. But I agree it seems far fetched that a power surge could cause this, unless the cable box spikes and somehow sends higher than normal voltages through the HDMI port. But at this point, there really doesn't seem like a good explanation, other than the receiver is faulty.

The only thing I can think of doing is run the cable directly into the TV, which is definitely not desirable and not really acceptable to me. Or I could access cable content through a Roku, eliminating the box. Still not desirable, but an option I suppose. I think I'd rather try getting a new receiver first.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thank you for the replies and info. I too suspected the cable box initially, and did exchange it for a 'new' one at the Charter offices. None of them are really new anymore, they just refurb/reissue them out. At any rate, the box was exchanged after the first event. I don't doubt that the cable boxes may be at fault, but at this point i've had two separate boxes produce the same result on this receiver. To me it seems like a problem with the Denon. I don't understand why a HDMI signal would damage a receiver, but it's happening.

It seems to me that sending it back into repair is a wasted effort. It's only been a month or so since it's been back from the last repair. Yet if it's a problem with the receivers, I would think there would be MANY more cases of this happening. There's a lot of Charter customers out there.

I mentioned storms, as its been asked of this before. Don't recall much of any lightning happening though, just rain and thunder. But I agree it seems far fetched that a power surge could cause this, unless the cable box spikes and somehow sends higher than normal voltages through the HDMI port. But at this point, there really doesn't seem like a good explanation, other than the receiver is faulty.

The only thing I can think of doing is run the cable directly into the TV, which is definitely not desirable and not really acceptable to me. Or I could access cable content through a Roku, eliminating the box. Still not desirable, but an option I suppose. I think I'd rather try getting a new receiver first.

It certainly is a strong possibility the cable system is responsible. The odds against the same input going out twice unless there is a problem with what is connected to it is high.

Find out if the charter box is HDCP certified. Most are not and that is a problem.

Another huge problem is that cable service is frequently NOT installed to code. This is especially true of grounding. Cable service should enter close to the electric panel and the cable ground SOLIDLY tied to the house ground at that point.

I have frequently had to redo the work of cable and satellite installers.

From my experience of this sort of thing, my money is on a problem with the Charter box and or its installation.

Be careful you don't blow up your TV or another receiver..

Unfortunately HDMI boards are very complex and fragile and very easily blown up.

 

[jjwelly]

I agree that the cable system is highly suspect. Problem is, there's really nothing I can do about it. Charter is probably the largest cable company in the world, with millions of these boxes in service. They are all alike, not really any different boxes to choose from. I don't really know of any realistic option I have. To me, the Denon is too fragile. If it can't handle cable boxes, it's the problem.

I did double check my cable grounding. Tightened up the connections, but all looked fine. Cabling on the interior is not a concern. I am running a 50' cable from the basement distribution block directly to the cable box. It's just loose installed, not running thru walls, and there's no terminals/ends that I have used. I don't think there's anything wrong with the home wiring, at least on the homeowner side.

I can begin by calling Charter. Maybe a technician can check signal strength or something. Changing out the box again doesn't seem likely to help matters any. I don't know if there's some inline HDMI contraption that could protect the receiver. Never heard of anything like that. Other than that, only thing I can think of is to eliminate either the cable box and use a Roku instead, or eliminate the receiver with another model.

 

[slipperybidness]

I agree that the cable system is highly suspect. Problem is, there's really nothing I can do about it. Charter is probably the largest cable company in the world, with millions of these boxes in service. They are all alike, not really any different boxes to choose from. I don't really know of any realistic option I have. To me, the Denon is too fragile. If it can't handle cable boxes, it's the problem.

I did double check my cable grounding. Tightened up the connections, but all looked fine. Cabling on the interior is not a concern. I am running a 50' cable from the basement distribution block directly to the cable box. It's just loose installed, not running thru walls, and there's no terminals/ends that I have used. I don't think there's anything wrong with the home wiring, at least on the homeowner side.

I can begin by calling Charter. Maybe a technician can check signal strength or something. Changing out the box again doesn't seem likely to help matters any. I don't know if there's some inline HDMI contraption that could protect the receiver. Never heard of anything like that. Other than that, only thing I can think of is to eliminate either the cable box and use a Roku instead, or eliminate the receiver with another model.

I tend to agree with the others, I would be highly suspicious of your cable system, just from my experience, and the fact that you have had the same problem twice. You could have a problem on the AVR. Or possibly each (cable box and AVR) are operating very marginal and on the brink of failure, so when the 2 marry together, you get the failure.

Unfortunately, 1 way to find out will be to use a different HDMI connection. But, if the problem is indeed on the cable system, then you will now have 2x burned out HDMI connections!

I may have missed it, but have you replaced the HDMI cable itself yet? What brand cable are you using? If you are lucky, that could be a cheap and easy fix (but probably unlikely).

 

[panteragstk]

I tend to agree with the others, I would be highly suspicious of your cable system, just from my experience, and the fact that you have had the same problem twice. You could have a problem on the AVR. Or possibly each (cable box and AVR) are operating very marginal and on the brink of failure, so when the 2 marry together, you get the failure.

Unfortunately, 1 way to find out will be to use a different HDMI connection. But, if the problem is indeed on the cable system, then you will now have 2x burned out HDMI connections!

I may have missed it, but have you replaced the HDMI cable itself yet? What brand cable are you using? If you are lucky, that could be a cheap and easy fix (but probably unlikely).

Not only this, but you could always get a cheap HDMI splitter and just put it in between the cable box HDMI and the denon. At least this way it would kill the $20 splitter and not your expensive AVR.

 

[TLS Guy]

Not only this, but you could always get a cheap HDMI splitter and just put it in between the cable box HDMI and the denon. At least this way it would kill the $20 splitter and not your expensive AVR.

That is a really good idea.

 

[jjwelly]

I wonder if using the HDMI splitter would actually protect the receiver, or would it just pass the surge down the line. A good idea if it would work.

I tend to think that the cable box is not very good at protecting devices such as receivers. But I also think the Denon is very fragile. Maybe this is not the case, but the real problem for me is the fact that there's not many service centers for Denon, and they seem to hassle me on shipping. I actually contacted Amazon where I bought the receiver, and they have offered me a partial credit for what I paid for it to return it and buy something else. I'm entertaining that offer, as I'm not real impressed with Denon. I've had pretty good luck with Onkyo in the past, and I know they have a local warranty repair dealer in my area. At least if it blew, I could drive it in for repair.

 

[lovinthehd]

I wonder if using the HDMI splitter would actually protect the receiver, or would it just pass the surge down the line. A good idea if it would work.

I tend to think that the cable box is not very good at protecting devices such as receivers. But I also think the Denon is very fragile. Maybe this is not the case, but the real problem for me is the fact that there's not many service centers for Denon, and they seem to hassle me on shipping. I actually contacted Amazon where I bought the receiver, and they have offered me a partial credit for what I paid for it to return it and buy something else. I'm entertaining that offer, as I'm not real impressed with Denon. I've had pretty good luck with Onkyo in the past, and I know they have a local warranty repair dealer in my area. At least if it blew, I could drive it in for repair.

So your Onkyo worked in this setup before without issue? If your concern is reliability then choosing Onkyo simply because they have a repair center nearby seems a bit off. Altho Onkyos of recent vintage don't seem to need repair as much as the previous generation....I prefer the feature set on current Denons in any case.

 

[panteragstk]

I wonder if using the HDMI splitter would actually protect the receiver, or would it just pass the surge down the line. A good idea if it would work.

I tend to think that the cable box is not very good at protecting devices such as receivers. But I also think the Denon is very fragile. Maybe this is not the case, but the real problem for me is the fact that there's not many service centers for Denon, and they seem to hassle me on shipping. I actually contacted Amazon where I bought the receiver, and they have offered me a partial credit for what I paid for it to return it and buy something else. I'm entertaining that offer, as I'm not real impressed with Denon. I've had pretty good luck with Onkyo in the past, and I know they have a local warranty repair dealer in my area. At least if it blew, I could drive it in for repair.

To be blunt, hell would freeze over before I'd use an Onkyo over a Denon. Don't let a crappy STB turn you against one of the better brands out there. I know shipping is a hassle, but I and almost anyone here will agree the receiver isn't the issue. I'd be pretty pissed if I traded a very good Denon for less than I paid for it and got a meh Onkyo (ditched audyssey for room correction) and have the same issue. Onkyo is known for having HDMI issues. I have a receiver I had to get repaired due to defect, not external issues like yours.

I believe the splitter would protect the receiver, but I'd try it before I made a repair/replace decision.

 

[TLS Guy]

I agree that the cable system is highly suspect. Problem is, there's really nothing I can do about it. Charter is probably the largest cable company in the world, with millions of these boxes in service. They are all alike, not really any different boxes to choose from. I don't really know of any realistic option I have. To me, the Denon is too fragile. If it can't handle cable boxes, it's the problem.

I did double check my cable grounding. Tightened up the connections, but all looked fine. Cabling on the interior is not a concern. I am running a 50' cable from the basement distribution block directly to the cable box. It's just loose installed, not running thru walls, and there's no terminals/ends that I have used. I don't think there's anything wrong with the home wiring, at least on the homeowner side.

I can begin by calling Charter. Maybe a technician can check signal strength or something. Changing out the box again doesn't seem likely to help matters any. I don't know if there's some inline HDMI contraption that could protect the receiver. Never heard of anything like that. Other than that, only thing I can think of is to eliminate either the cable box and use a Roku instead, or eliminate the receiver with another model.

How robust is the grounding? With the way climate is thunderstorms are a huge issue. Don't forget a cable system stretches way beyond your neighborhood.

So right at entry your cable ground needs to go to a grounding block. This grounding block needs to be bonded to the house electric panel at the house ground. The house ground needs to be robust. I use three 7' copper rods.

Usually peoples installations are not as robust as they think they are and need to be.

I have done an Internet search and there are no reports of HDMI issues with that receiver. One EDID issue, that is all I could come up with.

I do see that there is an excess incidence of HDMI blow outs from multiple cable vendors, especially Charter and Comcast. Lightning is the likely cause.

I personally make sure grounding is robust, use whole house surge protection and drive all units with fragile microprocessors via UPS.

Unfortunately these new high tech devices are fragile and are very easily destroyed. Climate I believe is playing a big part in this.

 

[jjwelly]

The onkyo I had before was not a HDMI receiver. It worked great for me for many years. Strong and I abused it. I like the Denon, but I don't like having to deal with mailing it in, and being without for so long. I know Denon is great equipment, but I'm not impressed with their support. I definitely don't like the fact that returning will loose some money from what I paid, but the price of this exact Denon 3300 is now 200 less than I paid, so I could return the broken one I have now, and buy a new one for no more money. It would save me the wait time of getting mine repaired, and it would wipe the slate clean with a whole different unit. Or, I just send mine in again and get it repaired as before. Denon did tell me that if it fails a second time, they can step in and make it right, whatever that means..

I think weather is an issue for sure. I would love to beef up the grounding protection. Not sure how to do this, but I'm a handy guy. I am running all my electronics on APC battery backups.

 

[panteragstk]

The onkyo I had before was not a HDMI receiver. It worked great for me for many years. Strong and I abused it. I like the Denon, but I don't like having to deal with mailing it in, and being without for so long. I know Denon is great equipment, but I'm not impressed with their support. I definitely don't like the fact that returning will loose some money from what I paid, but the price of this exact Denon 3300 is now 200 less than I paid, so I could return the broken one I have now, and buy a new one for no more money. It would save me the wait time of getting mine repaired, and it would wipe the slate clean with a whole different unit. Or, I just send mine in again and get it repaired as before. Denon did tell me that if it fails a second time, they can step in and make it right, whatever that means..

I think weather is an issue for sure. I would love to beef up the grounding protection. Not sure how to do this, but I'm a handy guy. I am running all my electronics on APC battery backups.

If @TLS Guy doesn't have a specific plan for increasing your cable ground, I'd make the cable company come out and fix it and have it inspected since you are thinking their equipment they force you to "rent" is probably causing the issue.

I'd also invest in a volt meter and try to measure the output voltage on your HDMI cable or port coming from your STB. That will tell you if it is somehow over-volting. I've heard of this issue in the past, but it's been a very long time.

If you have an older STB you can do component out from the STB to the receiver and use optical/coax for audio. There is no difference in signal since STB are limited to 1080i and 720p. Some will upconvert to 1080p, but it's better to let your receiver/TV handle that duty.

 

[TLS Guy]

The onkyo I had before was not a HDMI receiver. It worked great for me for many years. Strong and I abused it. I like the Denon, but I don't like having to deal with mailing it in, and being without for so long. I know Denon is great equipment, but I'm not impressed with their support. I definitely don't like the fact that returning will loose some money from what I paid, but the price of this exact Denon 3300 is now 200 less than I paid, so I could return the broken one I have now, and buy a new one for no more money. It would save me the wait time of getting mine repaired, and it would wipe the slate clean with a whole different unit. Or, I just send mine in again and get it repaired as before. Denon did tell me that if it fails a second time, they can step in and make it right, whatever that means..

I think weather is an issue for sure. I would love to beef up the grounding protection. Not sure how to do this, but I'm a handy guy. I am running all my electronics on APC battery backups.

There should be a grounding block like this at entry.

This should be connected to the panel ground with 5G copper wire.

Now drive three of these in the ground near your panel. Connect them together and the panel ground with the same copper wire.

When it is dry enough to water the flowers I also water the grounds.

 

[jjwelly]

thanks! Here's what I have right now. The electric panel black wire goes straight into the ground right next to the foundation.

 

[jjwelly]

My specific questions on the grounding rods/wiring are:

1. What connectors do I use to connect the three rods to eachother? Should they connect together at grade, then travel up to the electric box as a single wire, where it connects to the electric box ground wire? The electric box ground wire is only a couple of inches long outside the box, as shown in pic 3. OR, should each ground rod stay separate and connect together with the electric box ground wire at the top?

2. The existing ground rod, as I mentioned, is literally right next to the foundation wall, and only a couple of inches next to the electric PVC conduit. Where should I install the new 3 rods? How far off the wall, and also how far apart from each other?

3. What do I do with the old grounding rod? Leave it disconnected?

 

[TLS Guy]

My specific questions on the grounding rods/wiring are:

1. What connectors do I use to connect the three rods to eachother? Should they connect together at grade, then travel up to the electric box as a single wire, where it connects to the electric box ground wire? The electric box ground wire is only a couple of inches long outside the box, as shown in pic 3. OR, should each ground rod stay separate and connect together with the electric box ground wire at the top?

2. The existing ground rod, as I mentioned, is literally right next to the foundation wall, and only a couple of inches next to the electric PVC conduit. Where should I install the new 3 rods? How far off the wall, and also how far apart from each other?

3. What do I do with the old grounding rod? Leave it disconnected?

Here is a picture of mine, which I think is self explanatory.

I would just leave the old rod in the ground.

Those rods are identical to the one I linked. You can get the clamp connectors at Home Depot also.

 

[Blue Dude]

If you want to completely isolate the cable box and the receiver, you can consider a pure fiber optic HDMI cable, but they're not at all cheap. There are less expensive hybrid optical/wire cables (optical for data, copper wire for control and power) but this won't help you. I had a problem with a single HDMI connection blowing up both the receiver and display HDMI modules on three separate occasions but using a pure optical connector has apparently solved this. Each event cost quite a bit to fix, even with warranty assistance, so it was worth it to address this way.

An example is here: http://www.mycablemart.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=6777 They are designed for very long runs so they don't come in interconnect lengths. This is probably the shortest length you'll find. Fortunately, you can simply keep the excess spooled with no loss in quality and run out as much as you need. I only needed 15 feet and bought a then-minimum 40 ft length. Best of all, the primary cost is in the fiber optic itself, and the end caps detach. You can replace the end cap transmitter/receiver set if they blow up, or you want to upgrade to a higher HDMI standard.