Are You An Audiophile? Ha! Not according to this article...

Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
and that is how I feel reading theses schoolyard posts
There's a really simple solution to your dilemma: don't read them. You're not changing any minds here regarding the wisdom of purchasing high end cabling and other associated tweaks. If people want to laugh at the fact that someone has the unmitigated gall to sell bags of rocks, 3/4" self adhesive blue dots, plastic water containers, etc. as audio tweaks, they're certainly entitled to do that on an audio forum. As it is, calling people petty, arrogant, etc. for those opinions does nothing to further your own position; it just makes you look insecure.
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic Field Marshall
For most of my life, I've created, produced, and placed advertising for marketers of consumer goods. In this capacity I sometimes marvel at what others in my profession do to encourage product sales for the clients they represent. I recently looked at an ad for an AR-15 style rifle. The ad featured a picture of a male model wearing a costume to make it appear that the model was in fact a soldier using this brand name product. What's interesting here is this type of ad works. Folks just want to believe, I suppose. At any rate, seems some folks want to believe audio advertising too, as outrageous as it is to those who actually know something about audio equipment qualities. Those that do not know that they don't know, as well as novices are it appears the most vunerable to these very imaginative ads, perhaps the result of not thinking critically about it as they do the big events in their lives.
 
eljr

eljr

Audioholic General
You're not changing any minds here regarding the wisdom of purchasing high end cabling and other associated tweaks..

read the thread

I am not pushing magic, I am calling out the childlessness in post after post after post.
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
I am not pushing magic
Not directly, but some of your posts come off as suggesting there is some legitimacy to it.
It is foolish to YOU, not to the person buying it.
I am calling out the childlessness in post after post after post.
To what end? What does calling other forum members petty, childish, arrogant, etc. get you? It's a good way to get a time out if it continues.
 
killdozzer

killdozzer

Audioholic Samurai
Exactly. It was a nothing story, off the top of some guys head.

I took the time to read it, but discuss it? Come on.

Totally meaningless.

It did however spark some thoughts in some members here.

Like:
So you're spending several posts not discussing it?! Bravo! When I see someone saying "I'm above what you're doing" while doing the very same thing, all I can see is someone riding the "I'm better than you" wave.

You quote me wrong. I was genuinely and positively surprised to see most of @Bucknekked topics get a lot of interest.



That is the stereotype being perpetuated by...., not what I find in real life.
So you're the measure of things? Nice to know. I was wondering. I guess my experience is simply wrong because you know better and you're so much better then us? Saying that you broke with some "tribe" only to perpetuate the lowest form of petit bourgeois daily dose of PC vomit just to preserve the supposed halo on your programed head... My son, you're a part of the biggest tribe in the world at this moment. And it is not the mobile community.



I find very much the opposite.
Maybe you don't know how to look, is that a possibility? A dozen a dime of you "holier than thou!"




I think a lot of points are being missed. ;)
So stop missing them. You can start with this post. Read it again and ask yourself a humbling question; "what if I simply know to little to find any truth to this?"
 
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killdozzer

killdozzer

Audioholic Samurai
And brand dropping is not the norm here too? Just different brands, oh my brother.
Once again, it's bollocks on your side, I'm sad to say. There is always a brand. That is almost unavoidable. People here search for "look what does this brand deliver". People who want to own the "audophile" title say "my interconnect cable is worth more than your entire rig". (I'm quoting real people, unlike you only wanting to feel good about yourself)

BTW, I really think (know) you are off base here. The Hoffman board is defiantly more about the actual music than is this one.
Again, it is yyou who get to set me straight. Funny... Well, I read a bunch (too much) of threads. Whenever it is about equipment it is worshiping of the exotic and feeling good about owning the exotic. So, I can't be that wrong.

It's not even close.
It is spot on.

Well, that ought to RIGHTFULLY ruffle some feathers.

I broke with the mores of the tribe in the last few posts.

Nothing upsets people more than a challenge of their beliefs. You know, like religion or politics.
And finally we get an insight in what makes you tick. So it is YOU ruffling some feathers (in a hobby forum about audio equipment), oh glory, you must feel good about yourself. And RIGHTFULLY so, I might add. It is YOU braking up with mores... Oh tempora! Will you, please, please be my friend. You so extra special, you are. I never knew someone who by doing the exact same thing as all the rest managed to find a reason to feel extra special. I only heard of such people, there is suppose to be a couple on Facebook (like every last one of them).

So, YOU're here to upset people? YOU're challenging someone's beliefs (in a hobby forum about audio equipment). You think it is like religion or politics? Are you alright, mate?

Peace all!
Oh, so after ruffling, upsetting and challenging people, you go "Peace all!". Really?! That's what you've chosen for your closing statement... "Peace all!"?

Let me put it this way. You're obviously far, far too smart for me. You should really stop wasting your time on me. I'm beyond the grace of your righteous and morally superior views. Just give up on me, you'll be doing us both a favour.
 
killdozzer

killdozzer

Audioholic Samurai
Often I naively just write down what I've noticed and what I concluded from observing something. I refuse to prep every post in such a manner in which it would be impenetrable. I'm not expecting people who don't know me to first approach me as being absolutely daft. Sometimes this is a starting point in conversation with some people. Generally the ones I don't quite like. But then annoying little pricks push you into over explaining every word you've used and it is because they chose to get offended on someone's behalf - every single time.

First I wanted to see who really wants to be considered by others as being an audiophile. I've noticed people here don't really yearn for that demarcation. They can take it or leave it, or simply say "well I must be, since I'm in these forums". Here, you don't have those "here's what you need to fall into this category" questioners.

When I find people who find it hard to even question whether they are audiophiles, they always have this affinity for high prices, luxury finish, exotic brands, tubes, vinyl, separates, obligatory "over 1k" DAC and so on.

When an audiophile invites me to listen to his rig, all he does is keep repeating how much it costs, how few of those units exist, how rare and precious they are, what noble metals were built in, how he rewired the transformer with pure silver, how his shun-mook stands cost more than the entire rig of his dumb neighbour who doesn't know first thing about sound with his "Kenwood-insult". The music audiophiles mostly play is laboratory music produced to pose a "challenge" to your rig. They never play real music, unless these two come in package like some legendary recordings.

If you offer a cheaper solution that "does the same thing", they take it almost as an offense and they simply draw a conclusion about the aptitude of your ear. The verdict is always: it most certainly doesn't "do the same thing" for less buck, but you can't hear the difference, so you would be happy with a Sony.

This is where I drew my conclusion and I invite you to correct me (and really, I can be corrected): I've noticed that it is actually the demanding and sensitive ears of this person that made him unfit for anything less than pure gold cables, 1k DAC's, vinyl's natural sound, less than zero crosstalk (they can actually hear it if it's zero, don't laugh). And this is why I say; audiophiles have equipment that in fact makes a statement about their own heavenly sensitivity of their ears and soul. Very often the music comes as a challenge like in those commercials for Ginsu knifes "it'll cut whatever you throw in front of it".

Now, the division between audiophiles and hifist's is my own. I wanted to point out what separates these people and regardless of eljr's hastiness to rise above us, these two are really different.

When a hifist invites you to hear his rig, the only price talk can be "look how much I've accomplished for so little money". Or; it measures the same as rigs five times the price. They don't care how exclusive their brands are, it's often no name, chain-stores, global brands... And no one, my simple eljr friend can "drop a brand" in front of ya if the brand is Denon. There is nothing exotic about Denon. Nothing rare. Nothing overly priced. "No voodoo that hear only youdo". No one gives a truck about entry level Marantz, they're on sale all the time. Stores are full of them. What brand dropping are you talking about??? Not to mention Yamaha. If you were to pile up all the Yamaha's of the world, Staten Island dump would look like a deck of cards. Who can you impress with a Yamaha? What kind of a brand-rush can you experience by owning a Yamaha???

And still, people in Audioholics forums will say: "save your money, buy a cheap Yamaha for the same result that some gold-cast equipment gives you". Where's the brand dropping??

And, once again, if Yamaha started producing poop gear, people here would say: "stop buying Yamaha".

That's why I named them hifists; no need for all the "water-muddying", the goal of home audio is quite a simple and straight forward one (though difficult), I mentioned it a couple of times: an artist makes something and you're trying to reproduce it as accurately as possible in your home environment. That is a hi-fi approach.
 
killdozzer

killdozzer

Audioholic Samurai
A long time ago I started a thread to collect high quality recordings experienced and recommended by AH members. My motive at the time was to try and acquire music media (vinyl albums, CD, SACD, digital files) that are of good sound quality in terms of transparency, dynamic etc. To be clear, if it wasn't that I wanted to enjoy music at home as much as I could in live venue, I wouldn't have started that thread that may have given people the impression that I valued sound quality more than the music itself. So I suspect audiophiles probably do value music a lot, otherwise they wouldn't have spent so much energy and money on equipment. It is like if one doesn't enjoy specialty coffee at home, one would not pay much attention to what kind of specialty coffee machine they should buy.

I used the word "should" simply because I know I could be wrong, or there is no right or wrong about this.
Oh, man! I'm not trying to provoke you, but people owning poop just for the sake of underlining their status is what drives the most of production today. There's only a handful of people who are into the actual result the product delivers. Almost every luxury home I visited has a "never been touched" coffee machine that could make beautiful beverage.

Often I play a joke on people like these, I say; well if it has never been touched because you don't have time and you actually live in your other house where you have another one that has never been touched, give that machine to me, I really need one. I like coffee and can't afford such a good machine.

Guess what they say about giving something they never use? Now, ask yourself what can be a purpose of owning this coffee machine? What is it suppose to do if it's not coffee?

My answer: it is suppose to make their homes look like something out of a catalogue. It is suppose to make them feel good about them selves. These are "statement" products; "I have it because I'm such and such." "You don't have it because you're plain and you drink the Starbucks poop which you believe to be good enough".

Buying a more expensive unit that does everything the same as a cheaper one has absolutely nothing to do with the purpose of that unit. It is everything but.
 
killdozzer

killdozzer

Audioholic Samurai
Agreed. If you're buying them because they're pretty and want to dress your system up at least that's a legitimate reason.

What I don't like is when folks come to the forums and tell others that they do make a difference or improve sq. Some of the newbies that come here could easily buy into the hype. I think that's why there's a "no tolerance" attitude among some of us when someone espouses the virtues of high dollar exotic cables.

*Edit: I just followed the link to the bag of rocks. I'm speechless. o_O
This is why I don't even condone it if it's other people's choice. I think it is damaging. I think that all this insisting on "listening being a subjective experience" is always promoted most strongly by the brands that aim to sell you voodoo poop or by free-market preachers because they need it to set this "you haven't been fooled if you believe it" type of economy.

As I once said under the "art or science..." article by some of the moderators; there's always a personal experience and there always will be, of course there will be, but you don't need scams in order to save "subjective experience". This category is not about to go extinct, it is not even mildly threatened by production of these "it is good if it delivers and can be proven to deliver" type of products.

We live in a society and it SHOULD bother us to see our fellow men being scammed. I'm happy to see someone is bothered if I'm being scammed. I can't know everything, so I need you to warn me if you smell a rat and don't just go "well, if you BELIEVE there is no rat, kudos to you".

Scamming should not become standard.
 
eljr

eljr

Audioholic General
"Some people are sensitive to being wrong and direct facts come across dry and condescending no matter how politely they are presented."


We are all sensitive to being wrong. I won't get into the psychology of why this is, but it is.

fact is, few of us hear what another says if they break the moors of our group (tribe)

we, instantly assume they are an adversary, an outsider and attribute all the traits of our rival tribe to them. (stereotypes)

We cast them as the aggressor and lash out in defense not realizing our intolerance is the disruptor.

It's really kind of simple.

This trait did help in our evolution but it has also stiffed advancement.

And someone not aligned with a tribe? Well they are repelled by all the tribes yet these are generally the folks best to bring advancement.

So ironic.



 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic Field Marshall
Recent posts made me recollect, back in the early seventies I purchased a Marantz 2270 receiver, Dual turntable, and some Marantz speakers. I cannot recall the model numbers for turntable or speakers. At any rate, I ordered a Stereo Review test record to get the affirmation I needed about the decision I had made to purchase all this stuff to have the music listening pleasure of my dreams. The record seemed to support my purchases; but then, a friend living down the street asked me if he could play the record on his Magnavox Stereo Console. Obliging him, we both listened to the test record on his console and to my surprise, his console produced what seemed to be very similar results that I had gotten with my "real Hi-Fi". The moral of this recollection is I learned that day that I needed to be a little more humble about such matters, least I might look like a fool, an audiofool, spending too much for too little improvement or just an imagined improvement.
 
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eljr

eljr

Audioholic General
I have a friend, he invited me over to hear his system. He was very proud of it. He told me it was the best sound one could buy and he was particularly proud of how inexpensive it was.

I congratulated him on having a wonderful system that made him happy.

I have another friend, he also invited me over to hear his system. He told me it was the best sound one could buy and he was particularly proud at how expensive it was.

I congratulated him on having a wonderful system that made him happy.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Recent posts made me recollect, back in the early seventies I purchased a Marantz 2270 receiver, Dual turntable, and some Marantz speakers. I cannot recall the model numbers for turntable or speakers. At any rate, I ordered a Stereo Review test record to get a confirmation I needed about the decision I had made to purchase all this stuff to have the music listening pleasure of my dreams. The record seemed to support my purchases; but then, a friend living down the street, asked me if he could play the record on his Magnavox Stereo Console. Obliging him, we both listened to the test record on his console and to my surprise, his console produced what seemed to me to be a very similar result I had gotten with my "real Hi-Fi". At any rate, I learned that day, I needed to be a little more humble about such matters, least I might look like a fool, an audiofool, spending too much for too little improvement or just an imagined improvement.
Again, that tells us how important the quality of source media really is.:D
 
killdozzer

killdozzer

Audioholic Samurai
"Some people are sensitive to being wrong and direct facts come across dry and condescending no matter how politely they are presented."


We are all sensitive to being wrong. I won't get into the psychology of why this is, but it is.

fact is, few of us hear what another says if they break the moors of our group (tribe)

we, instantly assume they are an adversary, an outsider and attribute all the traits of our rival tribe to them. (stereotypes)

We cast them as the aggressor and lash out in defense not realizing our intolerance is the disruptor.

It's really kind of simple.

This trait did help in our evolution but it has also stiffed advancement.

And someone not aligned with a tribe? Well they are repelled by all the tribes yet these are generally the folks best to bring advancement.

So ironic.

Maaaan, do you suffer from ego-trip... So, people who fall for scams bring advancement (they don't, perhaps, slow it down or stop it?? No?) They help evolution... You have such a holy calling in your life. How petty must I seem from your Ivory tower heights?

And again with you breaking the moors?! I've yet to see the first one. Who was the first to tell you you're outside that supposed "group"? Don't tell me it was your mom, you know that doesn't count.

So, if I want to be extra special as you, all I have to do is think and say what you think and say? I have a feeling you are really young, but I do not think that you are dumb.

What I genuinely see as a serious problem is the fact that all the while one can belong to the largest, the most faceless, the most unimaginative and solution-less bandwagon out there, he still sees himself as being different. I read your posts here and in some other threads. I didn't want to describe you as deluded if it weren't the case, but, trust me, you failed to say ONE SINGLE thought that would separate you even slightly from any tribe.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
I see from the quotes eljr is making some new friends. Just block him. Not worth the aggravation.
 
killdozzer

killdozzer

Audioholic Samurai
I see from the quotes eljr is making some new friends. Just block him. Not worth the aggravation.
Nah. It's OK. I guess I'm annoying people sometimes as well. If he managed to say one thing that would genuinely be different and fresh, I would completely change my mind. I honestly would. If I were to hear a fresh and original strain of though I would be on him like a flee on a stray-cat. Nothing interests me more than different. This way it's just:
GIFSoup
 
eljr

eljr

Audioholic General
Nah. It's OK. I guess I'm annoying people sometimes as well. If he managed to say one thing that would genuinely be different and fresh, I would completely change my mind. I honestly would. If I were to hear a fresh and original strain of though I would be on him like a flee on a stray-cat. Nothing interests me more than different. This way it's just:

see here is the thing, which proves one of my previous posts.

Because I don't join the "we hate the hi end guys" you assume I am peddling their wears.

I am not.

Oh, and yes, you are annoying sometimes, I agree. :)
 
killdozzer

killdozzer

Audioholic Samurai
Because I don't join the "we hate the hi end guys" you assume I am peddling their wears.
You couldn't be more wrong if you put all you have in trying. I don't hate "hi end guys" one bit! Not even one bit! Furthermore, I don't care where the person I talk to belong. Couldn't care less.

The fact that you think I assume anything about what you're peddling inspires me to offend you in extremely creative ways. However, I don't think new scars would help the ones you already have.

So, in a polite spirit of preventing false accusations, I ask you to quote, PRECISELY, the sentence where you found my assumption about you "peddling their wears".
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic Field Marshall
In some areas of interest there are accomplished practitioners who, having earned some sort of credentials, are given status in the community of those having same interest. This makes me think what are the credentials of a highly qualified audiophile, someone I would want to listen to so as to learn things I want to know about? As this thread has gone, I only see eljr posing as the professor, acting poorly from a hastily prepared script, not very convincing or persuasive. Kildozzer has taken him to the woodshed so many times now, I would think eljr's butt is real sore and blistered from such spankings; but, that's apparently not the case as he just keeps coming back. I'm waiting for the knock-out round; and then, let's get back to the original fun found in this discussion.

Sterling Shoote
just a hater according to eljr
 
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