Headphone Jack Output Impedance

E

<eargiant

Senior Audioholic
The Objective 2 headphone amp has an Output Impedance of 0.54 Ohms

The Yamaha A-S801 specs state: Phono Jack rated output impedance (Input 1 kHz, 200mV, 8 Ohm.....470 mV/ 470 Ohm

Are these apples to apples numbers? Can someone help me understand how they compare?

Trying to understand.

Thanks in advance
 
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P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
The Objective 2 headphone amp has an Output Impedance of 0.54 Ohms

The Yamaha A-S801 specs state: Phono Jack rated output impedance (Input 1 kHz, 200mV, 8 Ohm.....470 mV/ 470 Ohm

Are these apples to apples numbers? Can someone help me understand how they compare?

Trying to understand.

Thanks in advance
The headphone amp's stated spec is, as stated, output impedance and that is generally the lower the better.

The A-S801's 470mV/470ohm is an output voltage spec at a given load impedance, that tells you it is rated to provide 470mV into a load (headphone in this case) impedance of 470 ohm. So they are not "apples to apple".
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
The Objective 2 headphone amp has an Output Impedance of 0.54 Ohms

The Yamaha A-S801 specs state: Phono Jack rated output impedance (Input 1 kHz, 200mV, 8 Ohm.....470 mV/ 470 Ohm

Are these apples to apples numbers? Can someone help me understand how they compare?

Trying to understand.

Thanks in advance
I would say an output impedance of 0.54ohms is EXCELLENT!
 
E

<eargiant

Senior Audioholic
Yup I've read a lot of his stuff. That's one of the reasons I was trying to see how I could determine the output impedance of various inconsistent specs.

Apparently 1/8th output impedance (or less) is best for damping, etc. But how do you determine what your equipment has with the inconsistent specs that are provided?

The headphone amp's stated spec is, as stated, output impedance and that is generally the lower the better.

The A-S801's 470mV/470ohm is an output voltage spec at a given load impedance, that tells you it is rated to provide 470mV into a load (headphone in this case) impedance of 470 ohm. So they are not "apples to apple".
This makes sense and it's getting closer to helping me determine if there's a way to know for sure.

Is there a formula or calculator to determine the output impedance of the Yamaha if we know the impedance of the of the headphones? I have three headphones with the following impedances:

300 Ohm
62 Ohms
38 Ohms

Also, is there a device that can measure the output impedance of a headhone jack?

My best sounding amp (on speakers) states a headphone output of 150 mV @ 8 Ohms. How does that all translate?!?!?

My head is going to explode :confused:

EDIT: I just read that according to "The Absolute Sound" the A-S801 headphone out is rated at 54 mW into 16 Ohms & 400 mW into 300 Ohms.



I would say an output impedance of 0.54ohms is EXCELLENT!
Yup it is excellent and sounds great. Too bad it doesn't have a little more power. Sometimes it runs out of steam on some recordings/headphones.

The Benchmark DAC3 HGC that I've been eyeballing has <0.11 Ohms!
 
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slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
@<eargiant
You may be just a little confused, the output impedance (Zout) of a device is inherent to that device, Zout is independent of the load attached (i.e. independent of the headphone impedance). Now, the Damping Factor does indeed vary with the load impedance, b/c the Damping Factor is a ratio of the Zin/Zout.

The best way to determine the Zout of a device (as far as I know) is to measure it! You would put a (dummy) load on the output and make some measurements. In practice, the Zout and the Load create a Voltage Divider (Zout is in series with the load impedance), you take some measurements and do some math to calculate the Zout of the device. It's been quite a while since I did this type of measurement at the local CC. I remember it being just a little tricky to get the concepts down to get the calculation right.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Apparently 1/8th output impedance (or less) is best for damping, etc. But how do you determine what your equipment has with the inconsistent specs that are provided?
Slippery explained that well in post#6 but in case you are still confused, basically that 1/8th rule mentioned in the article is about the "damping factor", not "output impedance". DF is defined as the ratio of the load impedance (the loudspeaker in this case) to the output impedance of the source (amplifier in this case). The 1/8 mentioned is the inverse ratio of DF, that is the ratio of the output impedance of the headphone amp to the load impedance.

The "1/8th rule" referred to in the article HD linked simply meant as long as the DF (damping factor) is not less than 8, you are good. So it was meant to be the more like a minimum requirement, but not necessarily the "best".

It can be shown by calculation that, due to the inherent impedance of the signal path (e.g. wires) between the amplifier output and the speaker binding posts, DF greater than 20 will offer negligible benefits, though much higher values would likely make some audiophiles feel better.

My best sounding amp (on speakers) states a headphone output of 150 mV @ 8 Ohms. How does that all translate?!?!?
All it tells you is that it can give you 150 mV even when connected to a very low impedance (for headphones) of 8 ohms. It will most likely be capable of producing much higher output if connected to a headphone that has higher impedance, say 300 ohms, but you cannot tell from that simple spec what the maximum value will be. A headphone amp is inherently limited in both output voltage and current, and its maximum clean output power limit will therefore also depend on the impedance of the load.
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
@PENG
Thanks for expanding upon my comments.

@<eargiant
Also, I may have missed a point here. With modern Solid State Amps, it really is not worth making a big deal about the Output Impedance (i.e. the Damping Factor). In fact, the DF is one of the least useful specs on the entire spec sheet for an AMP! The relevant specs for an amp are the CONTINUOUS POWER OUTPUT (which may be difficult to find in vendor specs) and the THD+N spec (which will be excellent for any decent SS amp).

Now, if we were talking about Tube Amps, then the DF becomes relevant. But, the fact is the Zout for SS amps is inherently low, that is one of the big advantages of SS amps!
 
E

<eargiant

Senior Audioholic
Thanks for all the replies so far.

The reason I started this thread and am hung up on Output Impedance is because NWAVGuy (designer of the O2) states:

"All you really need to know is most headphones work best when the output impedance is less than 1/8th the headphone impedance. So, for example, with 32 ohm Grados the output impedance can be, at most, 32/8 = 4 ohms. The Etymotic HF5s are 16 ohms so the max output impedance is 16/8 = 2 ohms. If you want to be assured a source will work well with just about any headphone, simply make sure the output impedance is under 2 ohms."

http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/headphone-amp-impedance.html

This is what lead me to wonder how do I determine the headphone out output impedance of my current gear because lord knows the published specs are inconsistent and even fewer state it in Ohms.

I was hoping I could attach a DMM to a jack and measure away but that doesn't seem to be the case. I guess I'm out of luck.... :(
 
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