Dynamic Range : Is it a problem, No Problem, Or a solved problem?

[MrBoat]

I have to be the odd one out here then. Hips and booty rule! Wasn't my thing either but I learned as I got older.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

It's her thang, even back when she was a Fly Girl on the Wayans' show. Not a big bootie guy myself but it apparently can be the basis of whole careers....e.g. Kardashians.

Do they (kardashians) have careers? What a waste. I used to love "in living color". I still do bits from it. I should grow up.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I have to be the odd one out here then. Hips and booty rule! Wasn't my thing either but I learned as I got older.

Hey that's cool. Everybody's got there thang. Maybe there's more dynamic range there? Lol, just staying on topic.

 

[lovinthehd]

Hey that's cool. Everybody's got there thang. Maybe there's more dynamic range there? Lol, just staying on topic.

Nice in bringing that all together

 

[-Jim-]

The real issue here is how the original source material was recorded and not so much the CD, Vinyl or Digital bucket you play if from. All the Classic Rock stuff I like was laid down onto Analogue Master Tapes. They have a Dynamic Range of maximum 12 bits or between 60 to 72 db. However, most audio engineers were mixing these to play loud on AM (an later FM) Radio while folks were driving their Cars. The background noise in a Car of the day was about 30-60 dB (Louder at highway speeds), so they mixed it all loud and some say only used about the top 12 dB of Dynamic Range. There just aren't any really quiet parts.

A CD is 16 Bit or about 93 to 96 dB. But if the music from a 72 dB Master Tape is used to press the CD, you can't get it better than the first generation Master Tape. Same goes for FLAC Files, AAC, MP3s or whatever digital bucket it ends up in. A Vinyl LP actually has 50-60 dB of Dynamic Range with all low bass being mono due to the physics of a needle running down the groove.

Every generation of copying (or mastering) from Tape to Tape degrades the sound with about 3 dB loss in Dynamic Range, or SNR (Signal to Noise Ratio). In the olden days Audio Engineers used to record Bands onto ever increasing multi-track consoles, each with it's own track on very wide tape. (2 Track, then 4, then 8, 16,24...) They would mix these down into a stereo or mono master tape; and every generation in the process lost another 3 dB. That's why seeing a Band live was an amazing experience for fans who only heard them on Radio, or old vinyl records.

If you want to get to real Dynamic Range you need to have the whole equipment chain used in making the recording capable of what you ear can discern (About 100 dB). And then have an Audio Engineer leave it alone the way it was performed. The closest I've heard is Blu-Ray Concert disks in DTS Master HD, or Dolby True HD. Some are truly amazing.

Try Eric Clapton - Slowhand at 70.

 

[NINaudio]

If you want to get to real Dynamic Range you need to have the whole equipment chain used in making the recording capable of what you ear can discern (About 100 dB). And then have an Audio Engineer leave it alone the way it was performed. The closest I've heard is Blu-Ray Concert disks in DTS Master HD, or Dolby True HD. Some are truly amazing.

I love the Nine Inch Nails concert blu-ray Beside You in Time. Sounds phenomenal!

 

[Pogre]

Hey that's cool. Everybody's got there thang. Maybe there's more dynamic range there? Lol, just staying on topic.

J-lo has a dynamic booty..?

 

[NINaudio]

J-lo has a dynamic booty..?

Well, if you count her waist as the lowest level and her hips as the highest level, I'd say there is definitely some range there...

 

[MrBoat]

In spite of the 80's often being labeled by audiophiles as "the worst decade in audio," I really have to hand it to the engineers of the time, who managed to get the most out of all the genres with affordable equipment. Really, the only thing it couldn't do well is home theater.

These days, we end up having to be a lot more selective of recording quality and do an awful lot of measuring/tuning.

I still have two rack systems from the 80's, one of which I gave to my son and it still manages to translate all music pretty darned well. And if someone is into mainstream music, those items are still some of the best deals going on the used equipment front and with very little fuss to set up.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

J-lo has a dynamic booty..?

Nope. That things at 11 always!!!

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Can't quote @NINaudio but that's about the "size"of it.

 

[lovinthehd]

Can't quote @NINaudio but that's about the "size"of it.

What are you using where you can't use the quote feature? I notice when I use tapatalk that sometimes it takes a longer press on the return arrow thingy after highlighting the post you want to quote than at other times....

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

What are you using where you can't use the quote feature? I notice when I use tapatalk that sometimes it takes a longer press on the return arrow thingy after highlighting the post you want to quote than at other times....

Almost always Tapatalk. It almost always works too. But sometimes when I tap someone's post and select "quote", when the window pops up it just says "write something". Seems like it only happens when I really want to quote someone too lol.

 

[Pogre]

Nope. That things at 11 always!!!

Can't quote @NINaudio but that's about the "size"of it.

Almost always Tapatalk. It almost always works too. But sometimes when I tap someone's post and select "quote", when the window pops up it just says "write something". Seems like it only happens when I really want to quote someone too lol.

I hate it when that happens.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I hate it when that happens.

Could be iOS too. Whatever it is, dumb...

 

[cpp]

I would agree ! Even crunching the DR down can sound pretty good with the right music.
In the last post I put up I mention Santana, Migra from the Supernatural album. The sound on the track is very good and its a fun song to listen to. The DR database puts the song at a 7db range. That's pretty squished. But, its a rythm song, mostly drums and guitar, and it works. It fits the music even though.

I think the future is open to options like you mention. With the technology within reach, some bright engineer will figure it out.

If you want to hear Supernatural that songs pretty darn good, its the LP from 1999. Its DR is 13. Everything else that came out CD', remasters has been around 7 for a DR average.

 

[Bucknekked]

In spite of the 80's often being labeled by audiophiles as "the worst decade in audio," I really have to hand it to the engineers of the time, who managed to get the most out of all the genres with affordable equipment. Really, the only thing it couldn't do well is home theater.

These days, we end up having to be a lot more selective of recording quality and do an awful lot of measuring/tuning.

I still have two rack systems from the 80's, one of which I gave to my son and it still manages to translate all music pretty darned well. And if someone is into mainstream music, those items are still some of the best deals going on the used equipment front and with very little fuss to set up.

I don't know about the quality of the recordings in the 1980's as a group, I'll leave that judgement to y'all and others who know more than me, but for my 2 cents the worst part of the 80's was the music itself.

I could be off by a country mile, but I think from the late 70's in to the 80's was the era of the "hair bands". The competition wasn't musical : it was theatrical. From those guys things went grunge or in other directions. Everytime I think about "what went wrong" with music, I end up in a grumpy old man rant that every kid has heard from their elders since time began.

I think we are on the same page with discovering great new music no matter the genre or timeframe. I search out new-to-me music at least once a week and with enough effort I almost always find a new selection to like. Sometimes its new, sometimes is old. As long as I like it, I don't care when it was made.

Dynamic Range may, or may not, be the culprit in bad sounding music. As likely as not, its the music that sucks and the DR makes it worse.

 

[Bucknekked]

In spite of the 80's often being labeled by audiophiles as "the worst decade in audio," I really have to hand it to the engineers of the time, who managed to get the most out of all the genres with affordable equipment. Really, the only thing it couldn't do well is home theater.

These days, we end up having to be a lot more selective of recording quality and do an awful lot of measuring/tuning.

I still have two rack systems from the 80's, one of which I gave to my son and it still manages to translate all music pretty darned well. And if someone is into mainstream music, those items are still some of the best deals going on the used equipment front and with very little fuss to set up.

I have to agree with your compliments on recordings from yesteryear. Tonight i cranked up and listened to The Allman Brothers Live at the Filmore East. Recorded in 1971. Undoubtedly analog and done on tape. What a marvelous recording even if all you care about are the technical merits. Add to the quality of the album the great music and its a great listen.

The new speakers also add something as well. Old music can still be great music.

 

[lovinthehd]

I have to agree with your compliments on recordings from yesteryear. Tonight i cranked up and listened to The Allman Brothers Live at the Filmore East. Recorded in 1971. Undoubtedly analog and done on tape. What a marvelous recording even if all you care about are the technical merits. Add to the quality of the album the great music and its a great listen.

The new speakers also add something as well. Old music can still be great music.

I have that one in a variety of formats, LP, CD, DTS disc...

 

[MrBoat]

I have that one in a variety of formats, LP, CD, DTS disc...

I have the LP. It was my brother's and I just came across it the other day and actually forgot I had it from back when we were roomies in around 1980.