Sub Cabinet

[Winkleswizard]

Here is the design for the Dayton 18" sub I referenced.

It is a potent sub and your Gemini amp is more than powerful enough to drive it. In fact you will use only a fraction of its power likely.

Any questions just ask.

You must add the volume of the slot vent, driver and bracing to the volume of air required in Vb to get the total volume Vt.

Wow, this subwoofer is a major beast! 9 cubic feet is bigger than my first dorm refrigerator.

Are there cabinet plans? For that matter, instructions on how to get your spouse to approve ?

Ww

 

[TLS Guy]

If he uses the sub with a receiver he will not need minidsp.

 

[Winkleswizard]

If he uses the sub with a receiver he will not need minidsp.

Possibly, but tried this with mine and Audyssey would not recognize it as a subwoofer without a crossover. Also, just to start the room calibration, need to be able to set the subwoofer level. While this could be done with passive components, the minidsp offers this and a lot more for the money. This is even more true if he wants to do 2 subwoofers. The minidsp would also provide a relatively inexpensive way to implement a subsonic filter to avoid woofer damage. This is good practice particularly in a vented alignment.

This subwoofer design is clearly capable, but good (well-placed and constructed) bracing is essential if quality results are to be attained.

Since am interested too, is why I asked about the cabinet plans...

Ww

 

[Alex Avakian]

Are there separate plans to build the cabinet for the Dayton or will I just need to come up with a design that fits the criteria? Also, for the tuning vents on the plan for the Dayton, does that have to be one continuous 37.29 inch vent, or can I have two vents and make each half the length?

I am having trouble returning the Peavey sub since its been more than 30 days, but I don't think you'd want to try to sell my cabinet with it because, since I did this a while ago where I knew nothing about how subs worked, I cut some wood out of it so my amp could fit inside the enclosure, and since its a polygon shaped box, that meant cutting at an angle, so its really not useful for anything I don't think anymore.

I also don't have a receiver because I was just getting the audio signal from the Line Out option from the back of my PA speaker, which is M2000 Edison Professional (I also bought this way before I knew anything about anything for music), which connected to the input on the amp, then after the amp went through a low pass filter then to sub.

 

[Alex Avakian]

Thanks for all the help again, and Happy 4th of July!

 

[TLS Guy]

Are there separate plans to build the cabinet for the Dayton or will I just need to come up with a design that fits the criteria? Also, for the tuning vents on the plan for the Dayton, does that have to be one continuous 37.29 inch vent, or can I have two vents and make each half the length?

I am having trouble returning the Peavey sub since its been more than 30 days, but I don't think you'd want to try to sell my cabinet with it because, since I did this a while ago where I knew nothing about how subs worked, I cut some wood out of it so my amp could fit inside the enclosure, and since its a polygon shaped box, that meant cutting at an angle, so its really not useful for anything I don't think anymore.

I also don't have a receiver because I was just getting the audio signal from the Line Out option from the back of my PA speaker, which is M2000 Edison Professional (I also bought this way before I knew anything about anything for music), which connected to the input on the amp, then after the amp went through a low pass filter then to sub.

A member Haoleb did a wonderful set of plans for this sub. Unfortunately they got lost in a site upgrade. You might PM an admin and see if they can salvage those plans. Otherwise you will need to make your plans. The vent should be one vent. You wind it inside the box and make a turn.

If you are not going to use a receiver or pre/pro you will need an electronic crossover. Do not use a passive one.

 

[lovinthehd]

Haoleb's thread for the sub still has lots of good info in it despite the loss of some attachments....http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/dayton-18-ho-ported-build-thread.93086/page-6

 

[TLS Guy]

Haoleb's thread for the sub still has lots of good info in it despite the loss of some attachments....http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/dayton-18-ho-ported-build-thread.93086/page-6

Thank you very much for finding that link.

 

[lovinthehd]

Should have looked at the post past Haoleb's requesting mod intervention (the last time I looked at it), @rojo has provided this link with the attachments! https://web-beta.archive.org/web/20150321013247/http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/dayton-18-ho-ported-build-thread.93086/

 

[Winkleswizard]

So as the saga unfolds, we have some key new knowledge, but could use some more information anyway. I will playback some of it and let me know if you agree or not.

Seems you are just aiming to rock the house for music purposes, so you can get away with one subwoofer. Continuing this line of thinking, you should be fine with more output and forgo the low frequency extension. If this is true, do not use the new proposed design as you do not need a woofer that large AND the large box that goes with it.

Before you spend any more money, would suggest the following. If your cabinet has 4 ports, try blocking 2 of them from the inside. This should lower your box resonant frequency closer to where Peavey suggests. If you like this improvement, than really need you to post the cabinet volume, number of ports and port diameter to allow better calibration of the tuning.

Also would be helpful to know what type of connection you are making between the Edision and your Gemini. What type of connectors are on each end?

Your passive crossover may be fine. It will depend on how loud you want to play the subwoofer. What is the rough height, width and length of the room you will play it in? Will it be in a corner? Does it need to be portable or not?

Anything else about your intended subwoofer use or goals that you think might be pertinent? Budget constraints, music preferences or others?

Ww

 

[Winkleswizard]

Should have looked at the post past Haoleb's requesting mod intervention (the last time I looked at it), @rojo has provided this link with the attachments! https://web-beta.archive.org/web/20150321013247/http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/dayton-18-ho-ported-build-thread.93086/

Thanks for sharing!

The cabinet design appears to be a solid match for the design. As I suspected, it is a heavyweight effort from both a woodworking perspective and materials required.

Would be interesting to hear. I really do not have space for in my home theater, but always good to see techniques that might be borrowed.

Ww

 

[Alex Avakian]

Honestly I'd love to invest the time and money to build that sub but right now I really don't need all that power, unfortunately. Next year I'm going to be living in a 12x12 room so I already don't need this 15" Peavey, given I am living in a fraternity house so I would be allowed to play it no problem. But I've gone through a lot so far on this project and honestly I just want a sub that works now.

I don't think this cabinet is save-able from what I did to it, but I will give you its dimensions from what I measured when I found the internal volume if all the opinions were sealed.
I also did cover two of the holes and it sounded like the bass improved but I didn't feel any major difference through the air, but it did vibrate the amp more.

In response to all your questions Winkleswizard:
In between the Edison and Gemini is an XLR cable, male to female so it goes output to input.
My room is dimensions are 140 in x 140 in x 98 in (width x length x height).
It will be in a corner.
It needs to be semi portable, so that I can get it up/down stairs.
I'm not going to be doing anything crazy with it, as long as its powerful enough to feel it everywhere in my room, and I liked how my friends Behringer VQ1800D felt and he has the same room setup.
I'm trying not to spend too much more, as I've already spent about $500+ on pretty much just experience and knowledge.
Music preferences are pretty much just EDM and rap.

If I could go back two years ago given what I know now, I would've done it the right way with left and right speakers, a center speaker, and a sub that I bought, all connected through a receiver; instead of some random brand PA speaker, with an awful attempt at a subwoofer right next to it.

 

[Alex Avakian]

Sorry forgot to post cabinet measurements:

height = 26.5 in
front width = 19 in
back width = 12.5 in
length (along diagonal) = 14.89 in
length (perpendicular to back and front) = 14.5 in
internal volume = 3.5 cubic feet
4 ports with diameters of 2.7 in

 

[djreef]

So I would have to buy the "Dayton Audio RSS460HO-4 18" Reference HO Subwoofer 4 ohm" from Parts-Express, then build a box to meet the requirements of the sheet you sent, then use the Gemini Amp to power the sub, then I'd be al set?

But wouldn't the amp not work with the sub if its bridged because then its outputting 8 ohms as opposed to the subs 4? So would I only be using a single channel as opposed to bridging the amp?

Then I would build a box to meet the design requirements of Vb correct (7.672 cubic feet).

Don't bridge. Build 2 subs and run them in stereo.

If you need something for the 'meantime', then check Craigslist or the 'for sale' forums on the hobby sites like this one. Lots of folks post quality stuff for sale on them all the time. If u have questions about a particular piece that you've found all you need to do is ask us here.

DJ

 

[Winkleswizard]

Thanks for responses. They really do help. Try blocking all except one port and let us know the effect. Have heard the Edison is a decent product for the money. So are you just looking for more bass? Also heard it is pretty big, so must take up a good chunk of your room.

If you are giving up on your Peavey project, are you still keeping the Gemini? If so, still talking passive sub. In that case, Parts Express is likely your best value. If you are willing to paint, see what you think of this: https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-12-reference-series-ho-subwoofer-and-cabinet-bundle--300-7092

Ww

 

[Alex Avakian]

I tried blocking all but one port and it didn't have as such an impact as blocking the others did which I was confused about. I'm also playing it in my basement which is on straight concrete which might be a mistake, but I've been doing that the entire time so I guess I should stay consistent.
The Edison isn't too bad, I like it so far (I also don't have much experience with anything else) and yes its kinda big, but I just put it on top of my mini fridge so its okay.
I think I'm going to give up on the Peavey project because it looks like if I just sell that sub I can get a better one for around the same price on Parts-Express. I like those bundles with the Dayton Audio subs, those look really good. But I would probably be more inclined to buy the 15" just because. But if I went that route, I would need to keep my 80 Hz low pass filter and just stick that in the cabinet before I seal it right? Would I also only need to use one channel of my amp because its a 4 ohm driver rather than use the amp bridged to 8 ohms? Or should I try and sell my amp and get something else?
If you couldn't tell I'm pretty confused on which route to take.

 

[Alex Avakian]

And yes I'm just looking for more bass.
Also, is it safe to say that Dayton Audio is one of the better companies to build an audio system with?

 

[Winkleswizard]

In my experience, audio equipment depreciates pretty steeply. So just depends on your budget on whether you choose to keep the amp or not. Yes, you should NOT drive a 4 ohm speaker in bridged mode.

Given the size of your room, you can reuse much of what you have, but is up to you. Your amp has plenty of power and the crossover is usable (but marginally so). I would still get the Peavey checked by a repair shop or a local pro gear shop. Whether you sell or keep, will be better if you know it is really the issue or not.

Parts Express offers some great values particularly for the DIY crowd, but if you want one that is assembled, there are lots of good options. In fact there are so many, it is difficult to recommend. There are forum threads you can consult for subwoofer vendor recommendations.

Here are some considerations to help guide you:

1. You really do NOT need pro gear from Gemini, Peavey, Behringer, etc. The Gemini may be fine, but is best utilized as subwoofer amp. It is more difficult to integrate it properly for use with other consumer-grade equipment.
2. Bigger woofers are more expensive and generally require bigger boxes. While they can be used to supply low frequency special effects, they are not needed for music. You can do well with a quality 10 or 12 inch subwoofer.
3. To correctly match to a subwoofer to your Edison, you need an active crossover. Most subwoofer amps have them built-in, but minidsp and other offer separate ones.
4. If you go the DIY route, get a grill to protect the driver. There is nothing worse than putting time and money into a build to have it ruined by a simple misstep.

Choosing speakers is challenging without being able to listen to them. If you just want better bass, work with a local hifi shop or an e-tailer that allows returns.

Since you have indicated you might want to have a more conventional system in the future, it is worthwhile to consider whether your next purchase will be readily repurposed for it. So that bigger subwoofer may make sense after all and the Gemini might be used to drive a second subwoofer. Once you have decided whether you will continue the DIY approach or not, will try to help.

Ww

 

[Alex Avakian]

Thank you again so much for your help. How can I learn more about audio techniques and knowledge without bothering you guys so much on this forum?
Also, since I think I will be extending my audio system in the future, would you recommend getting a receiver instead of an active crossover so that I can use it with conventional bookshelf speakers and the sub I will get. Also, as far as bookshelf speakers or speakers for a conventional setup, are the Dayton Audio bookshelf speakers fine, or I guess I should ask how to pick the right speakers to sound best with a sub.
And regarding the Peavey, do you think something is wrong with the sub itself? And if I got a crossover and fed that the audio signal first then connected the sub and the Edison to it, would that work fine?

 

[Winkleswizard]

While you can expect help, always best to search the forum and see if your topic has been addressed before asking for help. On a comparable note, wondered if you had seen this:

http://www.audioholics.com/diy-audio/diy-sealed-subwoofer

AVR (Audio Video Receiver) tend to be good values as the pack a lot into a single box and integrate it. Depending on what you buy, you may find that not every feature is covered. For example, while the AVR may have a subwoofer crossover, it may be tied to the home theater decoding and may not have much flexibility. Having a separate active crossover or one the it part of the subwoofer amp covers addresses gives you better coverage range.

If you are going to build a subwoofer from a kit, suggest you keep it as simple inside as you can. Anything you mount on or in the box is going to get shaken. For this reason, I prefer external crossovers and amps.

While the dayton bookshelfs may be a good value and will work with the subwoofer fine, the are other considerations for home theater. Suggest you look here:

http://www.audioholics.com/frequent-questions/set-up-and-equipment-advice-for-home-theater

And here:

http://www.audioholics.com/how-to-shop/tip-of-the-day-budget-properly

As for your Peavey, the question is whether it is bad or just not how you hoped it would sound. To make sure there is not a problem elsewhere, would simplify as much as you can. If you do not want to take it to a shop, find someone with a receiver and connect it without the crossover. If it sounds better, than it is not the problem.

Good luck!

Ww