Xbox One X: Consoles Hit the Downside of the Innovation Curve

Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Nope. Xbox one is only compatible with selected XBOX360 games. In general, some of the best and most well-regarded 360 games, but not every single game is backwards compatible. Original XBOX compatibility was only recently announced, so I don't know enough about that yet (but I think it will be selected titles too).

Here you go:
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-one/backward-compatibility

Now, to the real gem in your statement: You really have a 1st gen Xbox360? The oldest white model, I think it didn't even have HDMI, right??? And--you never got the Red Ring of Death :eek::eek::eek:???

If you REALLY have an original Xbox360 that hasn't RRoD (yet), then stop on your way home for a lotto ticket!

Seriously, I had 2 RRoDs. And every single one of my friends had at least 1 RRoD if not more.
I had 8. 8... EIGHT! :mad:
 
Wayde Robson

Wayde Robson

Audioholics Anchorman
Sorry to get soapboxy, but my pet peeve in life is when people (console makers in this case) take advantage of others and exploit them.
Hey Tao1, you seem to know a lot about it.

I've long (sort-of) coveted a good gaming laptop, I imagine by now laptops are about as powerful as you'd need in a decent gaming machine.

Do you have any recommendations? Are there laptops that will do the job? I like the idea of a mobile computer I can use for some gaming and work. But, I like the idea of a console controller for fight games and possibly some FPS or adventure gaming like Skyrim. Do these controllers work as fast and stable as they would with a console? I am just not into playing games in the evening the same way I sit at my desk when I work, I want to kick back to play, not sit upright leaned over a keyboard and mouse. I do that all day and most nights to work as it is. That's pretty much the reason I abandoned PC gaming a long time ago for console gaming.
 
Cos

Cos

Audioholic Samurai
Not being Tao1, you need to figure out a few things first:

1. What is your budget, because gaming laptops are all over the board on price and features

  • Having used the Xbox One controller on my PC, it works fine, but I am forced to connected it via the attached cable via USB, have not tried wireless. It requires a little more work as you have to program the buttons, do not know about the PS4 controller
  • Do you need to be a power hunger Max settings guy, if so that will jump your budget up significantly
  • Gaming laptops will sometimes come with a desktop grade CPU, vs the traditional laptop CPU, which blows a lot more heat
  • If your a max settings guy, I would recommend going with the Nvidia mobile 1070 or 1080 versions for the laptop GPU (you can even go SLI on laptop if you really want to blow the bank), if not you could be served just fine by the 1060 version. (Be aware how much memory it attached to each video GPU as that and clocks peed of laptops can vary greatly

Brands to Consider: (Higher End)
  • ASUS, our IT programmer was doing VR stuff with his, the thing was a beast and large
  • Origin, smaller high customizable laptops
  • MSI, like asus, but you get a lot for the $$, not sure on reliability
  • Alienware (Dell) I am just not a fan of Dell
You can go a lot of different way with midrange. My suggestion don't settle for less that 16GB Ram (or at least able to expand memory to 16GB, some memory is hard wired in now and you can't expand
SSD Drive is a must, and I can not emphasize how important laptop screen quality is. I am sure Tao has more insights, but once you have a budget, it would be much easier to direct you to what is in your range.
 
T

Tao1

Audioholic
Controlled pricing sucks, I agree, but console manufacturers do NOT make money on consoles in the first few years of its lifecycle, it has either been sold at cost or a loss to gain market share. They make money on games, so they need to control price or charge a ton more the hardware. I was not a big fan of paying for internet gaming, but that has changed significantly. I usually pay 39 or less for xbox live with discounts I find online and I get about 20+ games for free, each year, games I will play. To me it is a great deal.

To build a PC for $249.00 that matches an xbox one S or Ps4 is a little challenging IMO. To build a PC that matches the Xbox One X is next to impossible. You could get close for about $200 more. Again you can always upgrade the PC, unlike a console
That is almost another problem in itself.

On the one hand it looks great because people get a discount on hardware the first few month of release of a new console. However it is more of a rob Peter, to pay Paul scenario.

This is an estimate someone wrote up showing the difference in lifetime cost of PC, Xbox, and PS4. Unfortunately it is a few years out of date, but I haven't seen an updated version yet. It conveys the message though:
 
T

Tao1

Audioholic
Hey Tao1, you seem to know a lot about it.

I've long (sort-of) coveted a good gaming laptop, I imagine by now laptops are about as powerful as you'd need in a decent gaming machine.

Do you have any recommendations? Are there laptops that will do the job? I like the idea of a mobile computer I can use for some gaming and work. But, I like the idea of a console controller for fight games and possibly some FPS or adventure gaming like Skyrim. Do these controllers work as fast and stable as they would with a console? I am just not into playing games in the evening the same way I sit at my desk when I work, I want to kick back to play, not sit upright leaned over a keyboard and mouse. I do that all day and most nights to work as it is. That's pretty much the reason I abandoned PC gaming a long time ago for console gaming.
I have not personally used a controller on PC. As far as I know (and my knowledge is limited to tid bits I have seen here and there) Xbox controllers being a Microsoft product should work well. PS4 controllers should also work on PC fairly well. Anything USB should. Take that with a grain of salt though as my knowledge on it is fairly limited, but I haven't come across any posts of people having problems.

Logitech and the other major peripheral manufacturers make gamepads specifically for PC.

If you don't like using mouse and keyboard, you could try a track ball hand held controller with buttons. These were a bit of a fad a few years ago, so I am not sure if any are still available, are a decent experience, or are even completely supported anymore. I just mention it as an outside the box option to look at for the sake of it.

There is also a controller from a couple years ago that you wear on your head that reads your brain waves (yes seriously). Forget what it is called, but took time and tons of calibration to your personal thought patterns. Worked well for some people from what I heard.


As for laptops:

You are looking at a starting price about $1300 for current generation technology.

I am a couple years out of date with what models are good build quality (especially with heat management). However I have seen a few things here and there, and there has been a big leap forward in laptop gaming:

Laptops have always had gaming performance, but the cost is considerably more for the same performance in desktop hardware. However you are somewhat in luck, since Nvidia's latest 10 series video cards can now be put into laptops. Before, the mobile (M series) cards did not have performance anywhere close to their desktop siblings. Now, they are putting desktop cards in laptops, however, with those laptops, heat, power usage, and weight are big drawbacks.

On that note, here is the extreme end of laptops for perspective sake:


Picking what you want will be a balance of price, performance, weight, and heat. I believe gaming laptops are assumed to be plugged into the wall while gaming, so I doubt gaming time on battery will be an easy stat to find for every model you look at.


For laptops I would stay away from HP, Lenovo, Dell, and those older 'known' brands. They put together cheap junk, bloated with bloatware (although Dell may not be as bad). They may have cleaned up their acts in recent years, but some were terrible for overheating just running Windows. Currently, I believe Lenovo has been caught red-handed, thrice, with its own secret software (that you can't get rid of) that syphons off your information to be sold.

I recommend looking at Asus, Acer (but haven't look into them too much), MSI, Razer, Alienware (though Apple-like for charging for the logo) and others from the big names in PC and PC gaming components. (However don't buy anything from Thermaltake, they make junk).

Using desktop hardware for a benchmark, I recommend at least a GTX1060 6GB card. I come from more of a 'cheaper in the long run' mentality and try to recommend getting something that should last several years. A GTX1060 is a less expensive card, that will get a decent job done, but not quite in the sweet spot of performance/price/longevity as the GTX1070 would be (~$400 desktop card). *my view of price/longevity is based on desktop prices, not so much laptop ones.

Processors aren't as important as video cards. Generally you want a quad core i5. Dual cores can get the job done, but you will notice some tasks being slow if there are a few things running on your system. Generally the handful of dollars you save going from a quad core to a dual core insn't worth it. *After taking a look, it seems any laptop with a gaming graphics card in it is going to come with an i7 standard anyway.

Next will be the screen. I don't know much about screens on laptops. I assume they are similar to monitors. Taking a look already, I see some expensive laptop with high end, 120hz refresh rate (true 120hz refresh rate than can actually be used in its entirety unlike the tech in TVs). For this I would recommend looking at a sample in store before you buy, but this may be hard as you may not be able to find the model of laptop you are looking at online carried locally.

SSDs are good, especially in laptops as spinning hard drives in laptops are 5400rpm drives and really slow. If you can find a model with a 7200rpm drive that is a good find (price depending).



Here is a good starting place for you to look. Amazon with some of the filter boxes ticked to clear out the chaff. Be wary of those older models with 900M series cards in them, as they aren't worth the $1000+ I have the filter set at. For the 900M series models, I would look at the $800 offerings (they are filtered out though with that link).

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_p_36_6?rnid=2421885011&keywords=laptops&rh=n:172282,n:541966,n:13896617011,n:565108,k:laptops,p_n_feature_seven_browse-bin:3012497011,p_89:Acer|Asus|Alienware|MSI|Razer&qid=1498465868&low-price=1000&high-price=


Anything that looks neat, I would go check out the manufacturers page and check the full specifications to compare with the others you are looking at. Most importantly try and look up reviews on the models you are looking at from the larger tech reviewers on Youtube to get feedback on the not so obvious things such as heat management. You can also start by looking up reviews of gaming laptops to give you a better starting place.
 
Last edited:
Cos

Cos

Audioholic Samurai
That is almost another problem in itself.

On the one hand it looks great because people get a discount on hardware the first few month of release of a new console. However it is more of a rob Peter, to pay Paul scenario.

This is an estimate someone wrote up showing the difference in lifetime cost of PC, Xbox, and PS4. Unfortunately it is a few years out of date, but I haven't seen an updated version yet. It conveys the message though:
This is out of date, and definitely created by a PC person. At the end of the day, each has their advantages, and I don't think it's anywhere as one sided as you make it.

Chart is older, but does not take a lot of things in consideration, and assumes worst case scenario for consoles and does not take into account some of the advantages of the online subscriptions

  • Take a Current game like Destiney 2: It is $59.99 across All platforms, not just console, and that tends to be the trend with new releases
  • This scenario assumes all games are $60.00 on Console and $40.00 on PC
  • When in comes to AAA games, the pricing is typically closer than indicated in the graph
  • It assumes you pay full price for Xbox Live or PS Online services (which has gone up since this post in 2013)
  • I have not paid more than $39.00 per year with a simple internet serach
In the example of Xbox Live or PS+ there are several advantages
  • Xbox Live gives you 2+ Xbox One Titles for free per month and typically a few of the independent games per month on top of 1-2 Xbox 360 games included
  • PS+ also does something similar
  • Both online services will give you discounts on other games because you are a member, as well as movie rental discounts etc.
  • This graph factors in none of those benefits
 
T

Tao1

Audioholic
This is out of date, and definitely created by a PC person. At the end of the day, each has their advantages, and I don't think it's anywhere as one sided as you make it.

Chart is older, but does not take a lot of things in consideration, and assumes worst case scenario for consoles and does not take into account some of the advantages of the online subscriptions

  • Take a Current game like Destiney 2: It is $59.99 across All platforms, not just console, and that tends to be the trend with new releases
  • This scenario assumes all games are $60.00 on Console and $40.00 on PC
  • When in comes to AAA games, the pricing is typically closer than indicated in the graph
  • It assumes you pay full price for Xbox Live or PS Online services (which has gone up since this post in 2013)
  • I have not paid more than $39.00 per year with a simple internet serach
In the example of Xbox Live or PS+ there are several advantages
  • Xbox Live gives you 2+ Xbox One Titles for free per month and typically a few of the independent games per month on top of 1-2 Xbox 360 games included
  • PS+ also does something similar
  • Both online services will give you discounts on other games because you are a member, as well as movie rental discounts etc.
  • This graph factors in none of those benefits
The assumption of pricing in the graph is correct (at least close) even for AAA games. Generally large retailers like Greenman Gaming will sell PC games at a discount from day 1 or even earlier. Steam doesn't offer these discounts usually, but there are many online retailers who do. I have not paid the full $60 price tag on a new game in years. It is usually $45 (you have to catch a flash sale for $40 or less), but PC games are cheaper than console versions from launch day. 2-3 months after launch, you will generally find a weekend deal or such with the price into the thirties.

Yeah I realize the graph is inaccurate to some degree, but it still illustrates the concept I was trying to show. Consoles are paying for subscriptions to get deals that are inherent in the PC market. GOG and Humble bundle are retailers that often have insane deals which offer older games and some lesser indie titles for very cheap, or giveaways with other purchases.
 
Last edited:
Cos

Cos

Audioholic Samurai
The assumption of pricing in the graph is correct (at least close) even for AAA games. Generally large retailers like Greenman Gaming will sell PC games at a discount from day 1 or even earlier. Steam doesn't offer these discounts usually, but there are many online retailers who do. I have not paid the full $60 price tag on a new game in years. It is usually $45 (you have to catch a flash sale for $40 or less), but PC games are cheaper than console versions from launch day. 2-3 months after launch, you will generally find a weekend deal or such with the price into the thirties.

Yeah I realize the graph is inaccurate to some degree, but it still illustrates the concept I was trying to show. Consoles are paying for subscriptions to get deals that are inherent in the PC market. GOG and Humble bundle are retailers that often have insane deals which offer older games and some lesser indie titles for very cheap, or giveaways with other purchases.
Again, I see you point out best case situations for PC games, and worst for Console:

  • You didn't acknowledge my comment on Free Games from the console subscription service 24 games at 20 bucks each value $480x8 years not to mention the independent free ones
  • If you want codes, Greenman has both full price and discount games
  • GoG is a great website, but 99% of those games are way,way older.
  • With Console you have the distinct advantage of selling back the game when you are done for anywhere from 15-25 depending on title (withn 3-4 monhts), it just doesn't work that way from the PC market. (Yes some games you want to keep, but for me they are few and far between, and even the ones that I do, I really haven't played again)
  • The graph is inaccurate to a huge degree IMO, it doesn't take these things into account and only assumes full retail value on console gaming, while discount gaming on PC. This graph is pretty useless IMO, because it doesn't provide a fair and accurate comparison for the points I pointed out above.
Thanks for the tip on Greenman gaming, like I said I am a PC gamer, but you are so one sided with your opinions, you are leaving out some important values from consoles.
 
T

Tao1

Audioholic
Again, I see you point out best case situations for PC games, and worst for Console:

  • You didn't acknowledge my comment on Free Games from the console subscription service 24 games at 20 bucks each value $480x8 years not to mention the independent free ones
  • If you want codes, Greenman has both full price and discount games
  • GoG is a great website, but 99% of those games are way,way older.
  • With Console you have the distinct advantage of selling back the game when you are done for anywhere from 15-25 depending on title (withn 3-4 monhts), it just doesn't work that way from the PC market. (Yes some games you want to keep, but for me they are few and far between, and even the ones that I do, I really haven't played again)
  • The graph is inaccurate to a huge degree IMO, it doesn't take these things into account and only assumes full retail value on console gaming, while discount gaming on PC. This graph is pretty useless IMO, because it doesn't provide a fair and accurate comparison for the points I pointed out above.
Thanks for the tip on Greenman gaming, like I said I am a PC gamer, but you are so one sided with your opinions, you are leaving out some important values from consoles.
Hey sorry forgot to follow up here:

I mentioned it in passing, but I had tried to cover the subscription discounts with sites like GOG or humble bundle doing game bundles in a similar way. At least I assume that it is similar. I have not taken a look at the console bundles, but I assume they are not brand new games. Year old perhaps? If they are newer games, then I guess consoles have it pretty good for games then, but it doesn't make much sense to me for them to put up a walled garden, control sales, then offer those games for massive discounts without turning a profit for the subscriptions.

GOG is still growing. They were "Good old Games" then re branded last year to just "GOG" and are gradually selling more and more newer games on launch.

Yeah PC games can't resell, but I have also seen 50% off or more flash sales on games a few months in. On that note, I believe the graph is assuming purchase on or around release date and not waiting a while. Waiting a while the prices cited are waaaay out of whack. Waiting a year can net you 60-75% off a triple A game in the Steam summer sale.


I admit though that my claims could be out of whack. A lot of the data I have used is secondary research to fill the holes. Although 'you should never trust claims made on the internet", I have heard the same conclusions from detailed write ups from different sources (more knowledgeable than I am) who own both platforms. I also haven't heard anyone refute prices on games before. Even conceding similar cost, consoles are still giving up a lot of freedom over PC for no reciprocal benefit.
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
FYI, the newest XBOX One Controllers have built-in bluetooth (I think they call this the "S" model controller). So, if your PC has bluetooth, then there is no need for any wireless dongles.
 
Cos

Cos

Audioholic Samurai
Hey sorry forgot to follow up here:

I mentioned it in passing, but I had tried to cover the subscription discounts with sites like GOG or humble bundle doing game bundles in a similar way. At least I assume that it is similar. I have not taken a look at the console bundles, but I assume they are not brand new games. Year old perhaps? If they are newer games, then I guess consoles have it pretty good for games then, but it doesn't make much sense to me for them to put up a walled garden, control sales, then offer those games for massive discounts without turning a profit for the subscriptions.

GOG is still growing. They were "Good old Games" then re branded last year to just "GOG" and are gradually selling more and more newer games on launch.

Yeah PC games can't resell, but I have also seen 50% off or more flash sales on games a few months in. On that note, I believe the graph is assuming purchase on or around release date and not waiting a while. Waiting a while the prices cited are waaaay out of whack. Waiting a year can net you 60-75% off a triple A game in the Steam summer sale.


I admit though that my claims could be out of whack. A lot of the data I have used is secondary research to fill the holes. Although 'you should never trust claims made on the internet", I have heard the same conclusions from detailed write ups from different sources (more knowledgeable than I am) who own both platforms. I also haven't heard anyone refute prices on games before. Even conceding similar cost, consoles are still giving up a lot of freedom over PC for no reciprocal benefit.

We will agree to disagree

To make this type of comparative cost analysis, and not factor in the benefits of the console environment as I outlined (Trade in Games, Free Games,buying used games at a discount, etc) makes it completely invalid IMO.

Additional Notes:
  • GoG is not there yet, I just used it this weekend, if you check out the website it's still selling witcher 3 for $49.99 an does not offer any New AAA titles on its site (Its 29.00 on consoles right now) Correction: GOY edition is 49.99 across all versions
  • Both PC and Console will have flash sales within a few months even Halo and Uncharted saw a quick price drops as examples
  • The same discounts for waiting on AAA games applies to consoles, my point is waiting you still have to pay for the games, with the Xbox/PS+ it is included. Which is why I used the $20.00 per game value for my 480 because those games are usually on the discount racks in retail. It was a great way me to try out games I normally wouldn't buy but were very fun. Live/PS+ pay for themselves in that regards
  • CDkeys.com is a good discount site for PC/Xbox/PS4 games that are at or near lauch
  • Amazon and many other sites will give you a small discount for preordering game
Walled Garden
It is definitely a closes system, I agree, as compared to the PC, but your comment implies too much of a negative connotation IMO
  • It, is designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator of buyer, its interface is completely integrated, while the PC has gotten better with this, the usability is simply better on a console
  • Integrated voice chat (no third party app you have to download, install set up) Integrated Movies you can order as well as tight integration with third party apps like Vudu, Netflix, Hulu, etc. It is a much easier process than working a PC
  • Easy way to navigate your installed games, save files etc.
  • Don't have to worry about computer virus infecting your OS and games
There is not doubt that you can emulate all the above features on a PC, but the simple fact is that it is easier to do on the console because its a closed ecosystem. PCs require more expertise, though that has gotten much better. PCs can do so much more as well. My point is that you only focus on the negative aspects.

Side Note: If you have an Amazon Prime account you cat get the 59.99 games for 47.99 when you pre-order games, so that gap is even closer.
 
Last edited:

Latest posts

newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top