Need Help Upgrading HT System for Better Music Listening

[patrickcox]

Hi,
I currently have the following setup in my 13'x13' Den/Media Room...

Samsung TV

Denon AVR-1912 Receiver:
https://usa.denon.com/us/product/hometheater/receivers/avr1912

Polk Audio RM6750 Surround Sound Speaker System:
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-Yqj8uA27qV7/p_107RM6750B/Polk-Audio-RM6750-Black.html

For TV and movies, this setup is OK, although I am sure it can be improved. However for music it is lacking. So I am wanting to improve my setup to get a more full, clean and detailed sound. I don't need a ton of volume because it is a fairly small room.

I am certain that new speakers will be a great start. I don't have a ton of room so I am looking for something like a 5" woofer bookshelf speaker. I have been looking at the NHT C1 speakers. And then someone offered me a used pair of Dynaudio X12 speakers for $450 + shipping. They are a little scratched up and one of the tweeters has a small dimple in it so I am not sure if that is an issue or not. The guy tells me they work perfectly. And then I have received a number of different speaker recommendations on another forum. (Polk, Elac, Monitor Audio, Focal...etc.) But I still have not decided on this.

After upgrading my speakers, I am not sure what to do from there. Should I replace my HT Receiver? Or should I add an integrated Amp with a speaker A/B switch box for the Front left and right speakers? (A for HT receiver for TV and B for Integrated Amp. for music)...etc. And then if I replace the HT Receiver, what would be a good model that will deliver good stereo audio?

So any suggestions for improving this setup would be appreciate. My budget is about $2,000 for speakers and a receiver or amplifier.

Thanks!

 

[shadyJ]

The Dynaudio's are good, but the tweeter dome dent would have me worried. You might see how much Dynaudio sells replacement tweeters for.

For some smaller speakers that look nice, check out RBH's R5Bi bookshelf speakers. NHT is good as well. I like what I see about RSL speakers for small speakers. The problem with your budget is that it does not leave any money for a substantially better AVR than what you have now. Make sure you get a subwoofer that can play up to 120 Hz as you may need to cross it over higher than the typical 80 Hz for these small bookshelf speakers.

 

[lovinthehd]

If the Denon does all you want it to I'd keep it for now and concentrate on speakers/sub. I've used Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1s for several years, three across the front would be quite nice and leave enough money for a real sub; Ascend sells subs from Rythmik, something like the LV12R or LVX12 would work in your budget. Maybe a speaker/sub package from SVS or Hsu, also.

ps I'd use two of your current speakers as surrounds for now or perhaps a pair of the Ascend 200SE otherwise....

 

[mtrycrafts]

Welcome,

Audio quality depends on speakers and room acoustics primarily.
The recorded sound quality would be next that you have no idea
how good or inferior it is or was.
So, look for these two areas to improve on.

 

[-Jim-]

Welcome to the Forum.

I'm with lovinthehd. Your Speakers are definitely holding you back. I'd keep your Denon AVR-1912 Receiver and change it out last if you feel the need to after you upgrade the Speakers. (I have it's baby brother => a Denon AVR-1612 Receiver in my Basement system.)

As for speakers, you may be in the envious position where Speaker OEMs will ship you product with a 30 day no cost return policy. (If you are in the USA or similar country) I'd suggest you consider the Subs in this review:

http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/2017-subwoofer-roundup

Most of them have terrific corresponding Book Shelf size HT Speaker systems.

Like these:

http://www.audioholics.com/tower-speaker-reviews/elac-debut-loudspeaker-system

http://www.audioholics.com/bookshelf-speaker-reviews/rbh-mc4c

http://www.audioholics.com/bookshelf-speaker-reviews/rsl-speakers

If you spend about $700 on the SUB that will leave you about $1300 for the Speakers. I bet the result will blow you away.

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi,
I currently have the following setup in my 13'x13' Den/Media Room...

Samsung TV

Denon AVR-1912 Receiver:
https://usa.denon.com/us/product/hometheater/receivers/avr1912

Polk Audio RM6750 Surround Sound Speaker System:
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-Yqj8uA27qV7/p_107RM6750B/Polk-Audio-RM6750-Black.html

For TV and movies, this setup is OK, although I am sure it can be improved. However for music it is lacking. So I am wanting to improve my setup to get a more full, clean and detailed sound. I don't need a ton of volume because it is a fairly small room.

I am certain that new speakers will be a great start. I don't have a ton of room so I am looking for something like a 5" woofer bookshelf speaker. I have been looking at the NHT C1 speakers. And then someone offered me a used pair of Dynaudio X12 speakers for $450 + shipping. They are a little scratched up and one of the tweeters has a small dimple in it so I am not sure if that is an issue or not. The guy tells me they work perfectly. And then I have received a number of different speaker recommendations on another forum. (Polk, Elac, Monitor Audio, Focal...etc.) But I still have not decided on this.

After upgrading my speakers, I am not sure what to do from there. Should I replace my HT Receiver? Or should I add an integrated Amp with a speaker A/B switch box for the Front left and right speakers? (A for HT receiver for TV and B for Integrated Amp. for music)...etc. And then if I replace the HT Receiver, what would be a good model that will deliver good stereo audio?

So any suggestions for improving this setup would be appreciate. My budget is about $2,000 for speakers and a receiver or amplifier.

Thanks!

Your Dynaudio speakers are very good, so I would not be in a rush to replace them.

I have never heard a Dynaudio speaker I did not like. Dynaudio are one of the best speaker manufacturers in the world.

Your speakers had a very favorable review in stereophile. In fact the reviewer said those speakers are his new benchmark for speakers under $2000.

I would not worry about the little dimple in the tweeter. As long as there is not rip in the fabric, a little dimple in the soft dome will have no audible consequences. Don't waste money on a new tweeter.

I think your biggest problem is that your room is 13' X 13'. Square rooms are always highly problematic from an acoustic point of view. You will likely find the sound improved on that room if you plug the ports of the speakers.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Ascend cmt340 for fronts and sub. Hsu/svs/psa

 

[patrickcox]

Your Dynaudio speakers are very good, so I would not be in a rush to replace them.

I have never heard a Dynaudio speaker I did not like. Dynaudio are one of the best speaker manufacturers in the world.

Your speakers had a very favorable review in stereophile. In fact the reviewer said those speakers are his new benchmark for speakers under $2000.

I would not worry about the little dimple in the tweeter. As long as there is not rip in the fabric, a little dimple in the soft dome will have no audible consequences. Don't waste money on a new tweeter.

I think your biggest problem is that your room is 13' X 13'. Square rooms are always highly problematic from an acoustic point of view. You will likely find the sound improved on that room if you plug the ports of the speakers.

Thanks for your reply. Actually, I don't have the Dynaudio speakers. Someone offered to sell me his at $450. My current speakers are very small Polk audio speakers from an off the shelf 5.1 system. My question on the Dynaudio's was whether or not that was a good deal and then should I be worried about the dimple. Thanks.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks for your reply. Actually, I don't have the Dynaudio speakers. Someone offered to sell me his at $450. My current speakers are very small Polk audio speakers from an off the shelf 5.1 system. My question on the Dynaudio's was whether or not that was a good deal and then should I be worried about the dimple. Thanks.

Well if you have Polks and you snap up those Dynaudio speakers you are in for a great surprise. I have never heard a Polk speaker I like, the reverse of the Dynaudios.

Those Dynaudio speakers are head and shoulders above any other speaker recommended so far.

Dynaudio used to make their drivers available to the DIY community, but have not for some time. When they did I used to use their drivers extensively in my designs. They have always made superb drivers, with nice smooth acoustic roll offs with no break up peaks. It made for easy crossover design with gentle slopes leading to excellent time alignment.

You have an absolute steal on those Dynaudios, do not pass them up.

 

[patrickcox]

Well if you have Polks and you snap up those Dynaudio speakers you are in for a great surprise. I have never heard a Polk speaker I like, the reverse of the Dynaudios.

Those Dynaudio speakers are head and shoulders above any other speaker recommended so far.

Dynaudio used to make their drivers available to the DIY community, but have not for some time. When they did I used to use their drivers extensively in my designs. They have always made superb drivers, with nice smooth acoustic roll offs with no break up peaks. It made for easy crossover design with gentle slopes leading to excellent time alignment.

You have an absolute steal on those Dynaudios, do not pass them up.

Thanks. Here are pictures of the Dynaudios including a picture of the dimple. Everything look OK to you?


Dimple:

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-4WpZCZ2/0/53e19658/X2/i-4WpZCZ2-X2.jpg


https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-hTnzVmn/0/6922c8ec/X2/i-hTnzVmn-X2.jpg


Scratches:

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-WR8KhDq/0/15c72fa2/X2/i-WR8KhDq-X2.jpg


Back

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-sPPJ9hs/0/399d1469/X2/i-sPPJ9hs-X2.jpg

 

[patrickcox]

The other speakers I am seriously considering are the NHT C1s. If I went with the Dynaudios, what would be a good center and subwoofer match?

 

[TLS Guy]

The other speakers I am seriously considering are the NHT C1s. If I went with the Dynaudios, what would be a good center and subwoofer match?

I would definitely go with Dynaudio over NHT. As far as a center the Dynaudio X 28 would be the obvious choice.

As far as a sub is concerned, you need a nice low Q sub without boom.

In that small room this HSU sub I think would suit you nicely. The big thing is that it is highly adjustable. You don't need a massive sub in that room. In fact these massive subs are way over sold on this forum and pretty much all the others. Most of the time they are just covering up for lousy speakers, which is most. When I do, do listening when I have time to waste, I just can't believe how awful most speakers are.

There is very little musical material below 60 Hz. The real key to good sound is the front three and especially the front left and right. A good center is a bonus, but a center is by no means essential. Two really good speakers will always best three, four, five seven and even eleven lousy ones.

And there comes another myth of home theater. The myth is that the surround speakers don't have to be that good. Well, poor surrounds will detract from good front ones. In my view all speakers do have to be good, or you are better off with just two good ones.

I looked at that tweeter. That dimple will not matter. If you don't like the look of it, I bet you could pull it out gently with masking tape.

You will absolutely not regret picking up those Dynaudios. You have a good deal. You will not get a better speaker for the money. You could spend more and easily get a lot worse. For your room they fit the bill perfectly.

 

[zieglj01]

The other speakers I am seriously considering are the NHT C1s. If I went with the Dynaudios, what would be a good center and subwoofer match?

the X centers are expensive

You can look at the C120 -- you have around 8 hours left on Ebay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dynaudio-Audience-C120-Center-Channel-Speaker-/222537381615?hash=item33d042f6ef:g:wWgAAOSws5pZNyeV

I would keep the NHT C1 speakers on a short list

 

[TLS Guy]

That C 120 will be fine for you, if you don't mind buying used in eBay. I don't.

By the way all really good speakers are expensive.

I'm going to disagree about the NHT being comparable to the Dynaudio. The Dynaudio gives you another 20 Hz of bass extension and that is important sub or not. My biggest issue with the NHT is that it has an aluminum tweeter. They all break up in the audio band and they do color the sound in a way I dislike. I think good soft dome tweeters are hard to beat and that includes ribbons and all sorts of other exotic designs.

 

[patrickcox]

I have been listening to B&W 600 series and C1 series at Best Buy. How will the Dynaudios compare in sound to those? I don't really have many options for listening to decent speaker brands.

I also listened to Definitive Technology speakers, which I didn't like as much as the B&Ws.

Thanks.

 

[zieglj01]

I have been listening to B&W 600 series and C1 series at Best Buy. How will the Dynaudios compare in sound to those? I don't really have many options for listening to decent speaker brands.

I also listened to Definitive Technology speakers, which I didn't like as much as the B&Ws.

In this day and time, most have to take advantage of return policies and do in home testing from online dealers. Many have their preference and some bias. However, no one can speak for your ears. Dynaudio is not a bad option -- but you need to feel comfortable with your decision, since you are buying used.

 

[TLS Guy]

I have been listening to B&W 600 series and C1 series at Best Buy. How will the Dynaudios compare in sound to those? I don't really have many options for listening to decent speaker brands.

I also listened to Definitive Technology speakers, which I didn't like as much as the B&Ws.

Thanks.

The B & W will sound the most similar to the Dynaudio. I would still give the edge to the Dynaudio. I'm not a huge fan of Kevlar as a cone material. In addition I think they drive the Kevlar cone up a little too high. Again you have an aluminum tweeter.

The great thing about the Dynaudio speakers is the friendly acoustic response. It allows for a first order electrical low pass crossover and a second order high pass. This produces a lovely smooth open sound stage.

Dynaudio has a huge following, so if it did happen you don't like them you would likely make a profit on resale. My guess is that you will not want to part with them.

 

[patrickcox]

The B & W will sound the most similar to the Dynaudio. I would still give the edge to the Dynaudio. I'm not a huge fan of Kevlar as a cone material. In addition I think they drive the Kevlar cone up a little too high. Again you have an aluminum tweeter.

The great thing about the Dynaudio speakers is the friendly acoustic response. It allows for a first order electrical low pass crossover and a second order high pass. This produces a lovely smooth open sound stage.

Dynaudio has a huge following, so if it did happen you don't like them you would likely make a profit on resale. My guess is that you will not want to part with them.

OK, great, thanks so much for your help on this. I am definitely leaning towards the Dynaudios.

One more question - I understand that while listening to music, I will only use my front left and right speakers, which are the speakers I am replacing first. But for movies, if I don't buy a new center right away, am I better off keeping the center I have now in place or removing it and using just the new upgraded speakers up front?

I linked the speaker system I have at the top of the thread.

Thanks again!

 

[TLS Guy]

OK, great, thanks so much for your help on this. I am definitely leaning towards the Dynaudios.

One more question - I understand that while listening to music, I will only use my front left and right speakers, which are the speakers I am replacing first. But for movies, if I don't buy a new center right away, am I better off keeping the center I have now in place or removing it and using just the new upgraded speakers up front?

I linked the speaker system I have at the top of the thread.

Thanks again!

I think you will be better off with just the Dynaudios, but you can try it both ways.

 

[lovinthehd]

And there comes another myth of home theater. The myth is that the surround speakers don't have to be that good. Well, poor surrounds will detract from good front ones. In my view all speakers do have to be good, or you are better off with just two good ones.

.

You can get away with lesser speakers for surrounds when budget limited, plus he already has the others to use....but would suggest better surrounds generally, particularly for surround music (and wouldn't matter for him much for music since he says he's going to do that 2ch style), should work well enough for most movies with his little sats in a room his size.