Home Automation

[ARES24]

I know this might be a somewhat inappropriate placing for this thread but here we go anyway.

I am planning on adding a home automation product but I am just looking for a bit of recommendation.

Google Home vs. Amazon Echo

I am currently leaning toward the echo show for the kitchen and the dot for a secondary location (or two).
There is a wrinkle for us north of the border, it is a pain to get EITHER! Anyway, I am looking for people with personal experience (maybe even with both) to guide me towards the better path to the inconvenience of importing.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I don't have direct experience with either. What I'm started with is a simple Z-wave bulb and SmartThings Hub controller.

Technically neither of these are "home automation product" per-se. They are more of way to provide voice control to other things, like for example it seems like both support Smarthings for example. Think of these as human head, but head can't move without the body (smarthome hub)

https://www.smartthings.com/products/google-home
https://support.smartthings.com/hc/en-us/articles/205275404-How-to-connect-Amazon-Alexa-with-SmartThings

There are dozens if not more of "smart" home products and solutions and you have to be either careful selecting compatible products or bang your head against the wall try to make it work.
Unfortunately there are no single and easy standart. Do a lot of homework before you dive into that.
Try to figure out which systems you would like to control: Lights, Blinds, Garage, Alarm, A/V, Door Locks, video security or Hvac. You'll have to make sure that each system is compatible with your "smart" hub.

One thing of note is this: Both these voice controllers require internet. Same goes for Smarthings hub - without internet and cloud (I couldn't use management app while Amazon had major outage recently)
Maybe it's just me, but I knew it before, I'd probably look for another smart home controller.

I haven't look into this deep enough to be expert, but I hope this gives you some idea what are you looking at.


p.s: I think I've mentioned Samsung owned product one time too many, but besides my familiarity with it, it also has been selected few times as most versatile hub out there. It's not perfect, but it does the job. If you could program Harmony remote - it's a similar effort level.

 

[DigitalDawn]

If you are going with a standardized Control system such as Control4 or Crestron; you would be better served by going with Amazon Echo. The Echo drivers for these platforms are more comprehensive at the moment.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

If you are going with a standardized Control system such as Control4 or Crestron; you would be better served by going with Amazon Echo. The Echo drivers for these platforms are more comprehensive at the moment.

My educated guess tells me that Alexa is more Developer friendly (ie: Better SDK and API interfaces) than Google Home, which I rarely see mentioned in Home automation products.

Quick Example:
You could control Nest Hvac control with Both Alexa and Google home, but not Ecobee.
https://nest.com/support/article/Learn-how-to-control-your-Nest-Thermostat-with-Amazon-Alexa-on-Echo-and-Fire-TV
https://www.ecobee.com/ecobee-partnerships/

As for "standardized Control system" - could you really mix and match components from Control4 and Crestron systems? My guess says no, then this means that each of these separate system has it's own proprietary standard with-in it's supported products, but not interchangeable between each other.

 

[Bucknekked]

Technically neither of these are "home automation product" per-se. They are more of way to provide voice control to other things, like for example it seems like both support Smarthings for example. Think of these as human head, but head can't move without the body (smarthome hub)

I would agree, neither of the OP's mentioned items are really home automation.
I have the Wink Hub for home automation. some zwave products for lighting, and Ring.com video products, and a sprinkler controller.
All the potholes and caveats in the world apply to this stuff.
I see more non-compatibility issues than compatibility strengths in automation hubs/products.

I jumped in to home automation hoping for good things. I would say there's more sizzle than substance.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I would agree, neither of the OP's mentioned items are really home automation.
I have the Wink Hub for home automation. some zwave products for lighting, and Ring.com video products, and a sprinkler controller.
All the potholes and caveats in the world apply to this stuff.
I see more non-compatibility issues than compatibility strengths in automation hubs/products.

I jumped in to home automation hoping for good things. I would say there's more sizzle than substance.

Agreed. Exactly as I've mentioned before, lack of uniform compatibility is rather big issue.
Buying into single solution provide from big brands would alleviate this concern, but add significant premium.

My only "automation" is garage z-wave light bulb which goes off and off with sun. It's nice in sense that hub is smart enough to know exact date and exact geographic sunset/sundown times ergo provides light only then necessary. Not that it matter that much with LED bulb.
For $15 is ok price, but I won't pay a dime more than that. Z-wave products require hub controllers, but on the other hand totally inaccessible from the internet directly (no tcpip network support whatsoever) so I guess It's one less place where I need to worry about having to update or secure. Or in other fancier terms - it's not really IoT device.

 

[highfigh]

I know this might be a somewhat inappropriate placing for this thread but here we go anyway.

I am planning on adding a home automation product but I am just looking for a bit of recommendation.

Google Home vs. Amazon Echo

I am currently leaning toward the echo show for the kitchen and the dot for a secondary location (or two).
There is a wrinkle for us north of the border, it is a pain to get EITHER! Anyway, I am looking for people with personal experience (maybe even with both) to guide me towards the better path to the inconvenience of importing.

Depends. What do you want to control with it? If you want to use Honeywell thermostats, Google Home works best, according to Honeywell tech support.

You need to specify what you want if you need this kind of info. Without knowing what you want it to control, it's impossible to answer.

 

[Bucknekked]

Agreed. Exactly as I've mentioned before, lack of uniform compatibility is rather big issue.
Buying into single solution provide from big brands would alleviate this concern, but add significant premium.

My only "automation" is garage z-wave light bulb which goes off and off with sun. It's nice in sense that hub is smart enough to know exact date and exact geographic sunset/sundown times ergo provides light only then necessary. Not that it matter that much with LED bulb.
For $15 is ok price, but I won't pay a dime more than that. Z-wave products require hub controllers, but on the other hand totally inaccessible from the internet directly (no tcpip network support whatsoever) so I guess It's one less place where I need to worry about having to update or secure. Or in other fancier terms - it's not really IoT device.

BSA
Its interesting how my home automation turned out. I bought my individual point solutions based on them all using the same automation hub: the Wink Hub. They are all good solutions by themselves, but I chose them out of all the choices knowing they would all work with the same hub.

What I have found out is that the hub brings literally no value at all. It brings a lot of promise. It brings a lot of potential. But the hub itself brings practically no actual tangible value.

My sprinkler controller (if you live the in desert like I do, and have yards, sprinkler controllers are pretty much required) is a Rachio. Completely 100% wifi controlled and internet connected. Works great. I use it almost exclusively through the Rachio app. It is attached to the Wink Hub. And I can see it and it is an aggregation point. But to use the sprinkler controller through the Wink Hub is more an aggravation point than a useful one.

Same with the lights and the video ring.com products. The Wink Hub sees them all and I could use it, but, its simply too dang much trouble and lacks too much function.

Had I known this practical aspect when I was making my purchases, I don't know that I would have chosen different products. I like them all. But, I might have not spent all that time worrying over the hub.

I would probably worry more over any of those OP choices that you speak to than anything else due to security concerns. Any hub that talks to you, listens to you. That isn't in my comfort zone.
YMMV. caveats apply

 

[panteragstk]

Depends. What do you want to control with it? If you want to use Honeywell thermostats, Google Home works best, according to Honeywell tech support.

You need to specify what you want if you need this kind of info. Without knowing what you want it to control, it's impossible to answer.

I would agree with the above. Much easier to recommend things if we know what you are trying to accomplish. If you just want voice control, Alexa is leading the way there. Google Home will soon follow, but has a long way to go.

If you want actual automation, I've got a Vera Plus that works well and lets me do what I want. I do use HomeAssistant for the actual automation/integration of everything, but user friendly is not what I'd call it.

The Vera line is very user friendly and doesn't have to have an internet connection like the Wink hub and SmartThings controller (both of which are very good). So it depends on what you are going for.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

BSA
Its interesting how my home automation turned out. I bought my individual point solutions based on them all using the same automation hub: the Wink Hub. They are all good solutions by themselves, but I chose them out of all the choices knowing they would all work with the same hub.

What I have found out is that the hub brings literally no value at all. It brings a lot of promise. It brings a lot of potential. But the hub itself brings practically no actual tangible value.

My sprinkler controller (if you live the in desert like I do, and have yards, sprinkler controllers are pretty much required) is a Rachio. Completely 100% wifi controlled and internet connected. Works great. I use it almost exclusively through the Rachio app. It is attached to the Wink Hub. And I can see it and it is an aggregation point. But to use the sprinkler controller through the Wink Hub is more an aggravation point than a useful one.

Same with the lights and the video ring.com products. The Wink Hub sees them all and I could use it, but, its simply too dang much trouble and lacks too much function.

Had I known this practical aspect when I was making my purchases, I don't know that I would have chosen different products. I like them all. But, I might have not spent all that time worrying over the hub.

I would probably worry more over any of those OP choices that you speak to than anything else due to security concerns. Any hub that talks to you, listens to you. That isn't in my comfort zone.
YMMV. caveats apply

I think you may or may not realize the true value of hub, for example "vacation mode" - it would with one click set large macro rule, like turn off the light and keep hvac at power saving mode etc...
Some things are only could be done with central controller which could talk to multiple system.
Or for example, "coming home in 30mins" program - set the hvac, lights, etc...

Another example could integration of motorized shades, light sensors and hvac to close blinds on sunny sides and open on shady on summer days for example..

There are plenty of examples and maybe you need to look for ideas in your daily life which automation could solve or be cool if done with 1 click - like fancy lcd screen with controls for all of your smart devices.

 

[panteragstk]

I think you may or may not realize the true value of hub, for example "vacation mode" - it would with one click set large macro rule, like turn off the light and keep hvac at power saving mode etc...
Some things are only could be done with central controller which could talk to multiple system.
Or for example, "coming home in 30mins" program - set the hvac, lights, etc...

Another example could integration of motorized shades, light sensors and hvac to close blinds on sunny sides and open on shady on summer days for example..

There are plenty of examples and maybe you need to look for ideas in your daily life which automation could solve or be cool if done with 1 click - like fancy lcd screen with controls for all of your smart devices.

You hit the nail on the head. I think quite a lot of folks mistake control for automation. Control requires user interaction, automation doesn't.

An example would be that I can control my living room lights with my Harmony remote and my Echo. I automate them to turn on 30min before the sun sets so it doesn't get dark in the room.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I JUST USE MY WIFE AS MY HOME AUTOMATION DEVICE.

If I am thirsty, I say Alexa get me a beer.

If I am hungry, I say Alexa cook me a steak.

If the TV is too loud, I say Alexa turn the TV down.

If I want to play Spotify, I say Alexa play Spotify.

So far none of this has worked but maybe if I had of married a girl named Alexa...it would have....

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I JUST USE MY WIFE AS MY HOME AUTOMATION DEVICE.

If I am thirsty, I say Alexa get me a beer.

If I am hungry, I say Alexa cook me a steak.

If the TV is too loud, I say Alexa turn the TV down.

If I want to play Spotify, I say Alexa play Spotify.

So far none of this has worked but maybe if I had of married a girl named Alexa...it would have....

a relevant nerd joke: https://xkcd.com/149/

 

[Bucknekked]

I think you may or may not realize the true value of hub, for example "vacation mode" - it would with one click set large macro rule, like turn off the light and keep hvac at power saving mode etc...
Some things are only could be done with central controller which could talk to multiple system.
Or for example, "coming home in 30mins" program - set the hvac, lights, etc...

Another example could integration of motorized shades, light sensors and hvac to close blinds on sunny sides and open on shady on summer days for example..

There are plenty of examples and maybe you need to look for ideas in your daily life which automation could solve or be cool if done with 1 click - like fancy lcd screen with controls for all of your smart devices.

I agree. I only took the automation steps that were available given my devices. This is where the true limitations of the Hub come in to play. There are IFTTT recipes for a lot of sequences. As it turns out, given the mix of solutions I have, there isn't a lot of IFTTT scripting I could do. If I got a Nest thermostat for instance, I could do a number of scripted automated activities. I stopped the project at the last purchase when I could see the integration of the Ring.com video stuff wasn't supported well at all and scripting wouldn't have worked or done stuff I would have liked.

I agree with your sentiments however. Theres a lot you can automate if you take the time, have the correct level of devices, and you can manage the IFTTT recipes. I just threw in the towel on futures when I saw all the limitations. I can ask for a ham sandwich with the best of them.

 

[ARES24]

I should have been more clear with what I have and what I am looking for.

I have a smarthings hub, rachio irrigation, nest thermostat, harmony ultimate, a few chromecasts and a few light switches (more on the way).
I am still playing (when I have the time) with the automation. I am still annoyed that I can't get the lights to go up when I pause a movie :/

For this thread I was just looking for advice on the voice control component. I am assuming the echo show can be used to show videos and netflix, I haven't looked into it yet.

 

[highfigh]

I think you may or may not realize the true value of hub, for example "vacation mode" - it would with one click set large macro rule, like turn off the light and keep hvac at power saving mode etc...
Some things are only could be done with central controller which could talk to multiple system.
Or for example, "coming home in 30mins" program - set the hvac, lights, etc...

Another example could integration of motorized shades, light sensors and hvac to close blinds on sunny sides and open on shady on summer days for example..

There are plenty of examples and maybe you need to look for ideas in your daily life which automation could solve or be cool if done with 1 click - like fancy lcd screen with controls for all of your smart devices.

Everything you mentioned can be done with a Harmony Elite, hub and hub extender.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Everything you mentioned can be done with a Harmony Elite, hub and hub extender.

Going absolutes regarding "Smart" Home stuff is a perilous to be quickly wrong.
Rachio works with IFTTT, Next , Google Assistant (and Home) and SmartThings. Not directly with Harmony Hub. Now Harmony Hub does integrate with SmartThings, but :

Currently, Harmony Living Home products are unable to control cameras, moisture/water sensors and smoke/CO sensors connected to SmartThings.

https://support.myharmony.com/en-us/harmony-experience-with-smartthings?utm_source=support.myharmony.com&utm_medium=compatibility lookup&utm_campaign=support article - s-m-4061

Does this means Rachio won't be supported with Harmony Hub? I don't know....

Like I said before few times, "smart" home products are far from being tightly integrated as a whole and one should be careful selecting product to make sure they supported in advance.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I agree. I only took the automation steps that were available given my devices. This is where the true limitations of the Hub come in to play. There are IFTTT recipes for a lot of sequences. As it turns out, given the mix of solutions I have, there isn't a lot of IFTTT scripting I could do. If I got a Nest thermostat for instance, I could do a number of scripted automated activities. I stopped the project at the last purchase when I could see the integration of the Ring.com video stuff wasn't supported well at all and scripting wouldn't have worked or done stuff I would have liked.

I agree with your sentiments however. Theres a lot you can automate if you take the time, have the correct level of devices, and you can manage the IFTTT recipes.

Sure, IFTTT could definitely provide lots/most of the automation logic but this means pretty massive security risks exposing your all of your IoT devices to straight internet.

 

[highfigh]

Going absolutes regarding "Smart" Home stuff is a perilous to be quickly wrong.
Rachio works with IFTTT, Next , Google Assistant (and Home) and SmartThings. Not directly with Harmony Hub. Now Harmony Hub does integrate with SmartThings, but :

https://support.myharmony.com/en-us/harmony-experience-with-smartthings?utm_source=support.myharmony.com&utm_medium=compatibility lookup&utm_campaign=support article - s-m-4061

Does this means Rachio won't be supported with Harmony Hub? I don't know....

Like I said before few times, "smart" home products are far from being tightly integrated as a whole and one should be careful selecting product to make sure they supported in advance.

Until today, I had never heard of Rachio- if it's not one of the front-runners, it will take some time for them to get around to it but I watched two training sessions (today and yesterday) with the Harmony controlling the AV, lights, etc using Alexa as the interface and it all worked without flaws. The way it was set up, it didn't require long requests like "Alexa- tell Harmony to turn on the TV", it was "Alexa- watch TV" and it fired up the TV, sat box and AVR.

I'm not saying it will always work 100%, but of his list, the Elite will control it using Alexa. Without Alexa the Elite works extremely well.

 

[panteragstk]

I should have been more clear with what I have and what I am looking for.

I have a smarthings hub, rachio irrigation, nest thermostat, harmony ultimate, a few chromecasts and a few light switches (more on the way).
I am still playing (when I have the time) with the automation. I am still annoyed that I can't get the lights to go up when I pause a movie :/

For this thread I was just looking for advice on the voice control component. I am assuming the echo show can be used to show videos and netflix, I haven't looked into it yet.

Pausing during a movie and have lights go up is easy. If your hub is integrated with your harmony hub you just need to change pause to a sequence instead of just a command. Add turning the lights up to the sequence and for them to turn down when you press play again. Just be sure you have a specific "movie" activity and you're golden.