Strange Room, High Expectations, Medium Budget

[Lee Ridout]

I have a large basement where the shape is dictated by the pillars and beams of the foundation. In one area, there is a 14 foot wide ally that runs the length of the space. I know it isnt ideal but it will work. I have mounted a 135 inch acoustically transparent screen in front of 2 klipsch pro 6800 with a 6503 center. I have two more 6800 speakers to mount in the walls beside the listening area. My question is about the back speakers.

The area is very long. the couch is about 15 feet from the screen and I expect kids to sit in front of the couch on the floor. There is a drop ceiling between the back of the couch and around 12 feet. Can I mount the directionaly firing klipsch pro 6803 speakers in the sheet rock ceiling past the drop ceiling that far back as back speakers? Its not ideal but will it work?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

In general in-ceiling speakers are bad choice for TH, well except Atmos, where ceiling speakers are specifically needed, but these could work, but it won't be great.

The question you should really ask yourself - is your sub(s) is upto the task to play in this (sounds like) large space

 

[lovinthehd]

Ceiling speakers that far back from the seating I wouldn't bother with myself, but like you say, maybe not ideal is good enough for your situation, my rear surrounds are about that distance but they're not ceiling speakers. You could always try and see. I was also more wondering about the sub....

 

[Lee Ridout]

The 6803s are a bit different than normal down firing ceiling speakers. The mid and tweeter are aimed toward the listener. So picture them 12 feet back but aimed at the listening area. My option is to buy bookshelf speakers on stands with wires along the ground.

 

[Lee Ridout]

BSA, I have 1 polk psw 505 12 inch sub. Again, I am looking for the 90%.

 

[lovinthehd]

The 6803s are a bit different than normal down firing ceiling speakers. The mid and tweeter are aimed toward the listener. So picture them 12 feet back but aimed at the listening area. My option is to buy bookshelf speakers on stands with wires along the ground.

Might be good enough for that little bit of directionality built in, I did take a look at the speakers before. I'm just not a fan of ceiling speakers generally. You generally do want them mounted higher up, above ear level, so speakers on stands may not be ideal either.

 

[lovinthehd]

BSA, I have 1 polk psw 505 12 inch sub. Again, I am looking for the 90%.

I'd worry more about the sub than the rear surrounds, that's not much sub for a room that large...

 

[BMXTRIX]

Do you have any photos of the space? Are in-walls or on-walls not an option? Keep in mind, any rooms above in-ceiling speakers will be getting blasted with audio whenever a movie is playing.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

BSA, I have 1 polk psw 505 12 inch sub. Again, I am looking for the 90%.

Lets agree to disagree. If my guess is correct about your space size, what you're getting from that sub is about 10%, not 90%. Please provide us with more accurate volume you're looking to pressurize - ie play sub in if you even a bit serious about this project to succeed as solid HT.
Because right now you have, forgive me for being brush, a fart box. You need new sub. I get it, you're not looking for perfection, but imo a serious upgrade is required even to get to 80%.

See objective review here:
http://hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_2/polk-psw-505-subwoofer-4-2005.html

The goal for HT sub is to able to play sufficiently loud (at least 95db) cleanly (under 15% THD) down to 20hz or very near it. Based on this not very demanding criterias, your current sub only plays clean and loud down to 40hz. It's almost doesn't deserve to be called a sub. More like mid-bass module.

 

[Pogre]

BSA, I have 1 polk psw 505 12 inch sub. Again, I am looking for the 90%.

BSA is right. One of the most underrated components in a system is a subwoofer(s). Polk might make some decent speakers, but subs are just simply not their fortè. My own system has gone through many changes in the last year and I think, aside from my main speakers, a real sub from a reputable sub manufacturer is the biggest, most noticeable improvement to my entire system than anything else I've done. Having clean bass does more than just add low frequency, it improves how your whole system sounds overall. If you have a large area to pressurize I wouldn't be surprised if 2 subs are recommended. Especially for a HT setup. Good bass is a necessity to get the experience of a good HT.

One of the unfortunate aspects of this hobby (for most) is that you have to make some concessions aesthetically if you want good sound. In wall and in ceiling speakers simply can't sound as good as a stand alone speaker (in most cases) because of the physics involved.

*Edit: If you're building a dedicated HT system in your basement are aesthetics really that important?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Ed's(Mullen) review of the 505 is spot on. Long story short, I inherited one when my long time friend who only had the 505 as a sub. I added an SB2K to my pc pluses and found that in that configuration it just wasn't enough albeit a great little subwoofer. So, I traded my friend who needed a sub much more than I did. In short my experience mirrors Ed's. I run the 505 about 9' away, rear corner filtered between 30-60hz as anything above the 60-70hz range makes this thing obnoxious. All 3 are eq'd with a bfd. In this configuration, its actually a pretty nice addition, but on its own would struggle in a larger space. The thread title says High expectations so that's why you'll see recommendations for a subwoofer. Some pics would be useful as well. I agree not to use in ceiling speakers unless absolutely necessary. You also mentioned support poles. You cou frame a structure around one(both?) and wall mount like this.

Just a couple.02

 

[shadyJ]

Honestly the PSW505 doesn't look like the worst subwoofer out there for the $200 or $250 range. The performance from 30 Hz on up looks OK. The $600 MSRP is ridiculous, but for under $300, it might not be that bad. Ain't nobody gonna get a sub that plays down to 20 Hz well for that price range, so its better to focus on 30 Hz+ for this price point, and it looks like that is what the 505 does.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Honestly the PSW505 doesn't look like the worst subwoofer out there for the $200 or $250 range. The performance from 30 Hz on up looks OK. The $600 MSRP is ridiculous, but for under $300, it might not be that bad. Ain't nobody gonna get a sub that plays down to 20 Hz well for that price range, so its better to focus on 30 Hz+ for this price point, and it looks like that is what the 505 does.

I have a large basement where the shape is dictated by the pillars and beams of the foundation. In one area, there is a 14 foot wide ally that runs the length of the space......
The area is very long. the couch is about 15 feet from the screen and I expect kids to sit in front of the couch on the floor....

James, Yes - we have seen even worse subs , and at under $300 one could get worse. It's all good info, except look again at bold text from original post. Do you honestly think that this sub is good choice for this space?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Honestly the PSW505 doesn't look like the worst subwoofer out there for the $200 or $250 range. The performance from 30 Hz on up looks OK. The $600 MSRP is ridiculous, but for under $300, it might not be that bad. Ain't nobody gonna get a sub that plays down to 20 Hz well for that price range, so its better to focus on 30 Hz+ for this price point, and it looks like that is what the 505 does.

I can definitely agree with this statement, although I still think it should be crossed no higher than probably 70hz. We'll both likely agree with BSA that it's not big enough on its own for that space but as an mbm or maybe multiples could be effective. There better subs out there but there are definitely worse. Lots of good user reviews(ingest grain of salt) anyway.

 

[panteragstk]

James, Yes - we have seen even worse subs , and at under $300 one could get worse. It's all good info, except look again at bold text from original post. Do you honestly think that this sub is good choice for this space?

I suppose it would REALLY depend on where the sub is in relation to the listening position. If it is positioned correctly it could be decent, but I know from my own experience (and articles on AH) that positioning is VERY important.

Is the OP filling the entire room with decent bass, no way. But it could be decent at the listening position.

I agree with others, get a better sub or more subs. When you hear a decent sub it will open your eyes (ears?) to what is actually possible.

As for the in-ceiling speaker question, if you don't HAVE to, don't (unless Atmos speakers as BSA already said).

 

[shadyJ]

James, Yes - we have seen even worse subs , and at under $300 one could get worse. It's all good info, except look again at bold text from original post. Do you honestly think that this sub is good choice for this space?

I think if you have a very tight budget and you find a deal on one, it would be better than nothing, even in a space like that. I still might lean toward the Dayton subs on an extremely tight budget, but I wouldn't be surprised if the 505 could outperform, say, a Dayton 1200.

 

[KEW]

I think if you have a very tight budget and you find a deal on one, it would be better than nothing, even in a space like that. I still might lean toward the Dayton subs on an extremely tight budget, but I wouldn't be surprised if the 505 could outperform, say, a Dayton 1200.

How surprised would you be if it couldn't outperform the SUB-1200?

 

[shadyJ]

How surprised would you be if it couldn't outperform the SUB-1200?

It wouldn't shock me. I don't think either one would hold a large advantage over the other.

 

[Lee Ridout]

Hmm... I tried to post a 'blue print' but the forum removes spaces... Let me see if I cant get a good representation of what I am working with

Oh and I appreciate all the responses.

On the sub. I got it for $179. I know it is not an ideal sub but there are lots of not so ideal things about my setup. When I get you the image of the room, you will see what I mean. Thank you again for the responses.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Hmm... I tried to post a 'blue print' but the forum removes spaces... Let me see if I cant get a good representation of what I am working with

Oh and I appreciate all the responses.

On the sub. I got it for $179. I know it is not an ideal sub but there are lots of not so ideal things about my setup. When I get you the image of the room, you will see what I mean. Thank you again for the responses.

As far as location for rear speakers - just the photos with phone, upload them to imgur.com, photobucket or similar service and post links here.
For sub recommendations - we don't really need entire floor plan, just the total volume sub could "see" in cuft. I know for example, trying to pressurize my family room with fully open 1st floor and part 2nd floor in 3k sqft house is nearly hopeless, but in basement, it couldn't be possibly nearly as bad.