New Outlaw Ultra X-13 Subwoofer THX Ultra Certified!

[speakerman39]

Got an email regarding a new sub from the likes of Outlaw Audio. I must say it does look interesting to say the least. Without further ado here is a link:

http://saloon.outlawaudio.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=96564&an=33#Post96564



Dual 500 watt amps with a down-firing driver and/or ports is NOT too shabby! !



Phil

 

[roadwarrior]

I thought low distortion percentages in subwoofers wasn't an important spec. ?

 

[lovinthehd]

So what is the range meant by "while keeping harmonic distortion in the mid to single-digit range" ?
Mid of what? Wonder what the driver specifics are, too. Wonder what the price is as well....and will they post the measurements?

 

[speakerman39]

Yeah, I was wondering what the price is as well. Just got an email on it and thought that I would share as I am out of the sub business myself.


Phil

 

[Steve81]

I thought low distortion percentages in subwoofers wasn't an important spec. ?

It depends. 20% second and third order THD at 20Hz probably isn't much to be concerned with. Doubly so if you're only reaching those levels during short term peaks that last some fraction of a second, and the source material is something like a movie explosion where there's no original event to speak of. Up at 50Hz+ with higher order harmonics in the mix, it's more of a problem.

 

[rojo]

So what is the range meant by "while keeping harmonic distortion in the mid to single-digit range" ?
Mid of what? Wonder what the driver specifics are, too. Wonder what the price is as well....and will they post the measurements?

Price is around $1500.

write-up: http://soundstageaccess.com/index.php/equipment-reviews/794-outlaw-audio-ultra-x13-subwoofer
measurements: http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1684:outlaw-audio-ultra-x13-subwoofer&catid=338&Itemid=349

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Price is around $1500.

write-up: http://soundstageaccess.com/index.php/equipment-reviews/794-outlaw-audio-ultra-x13-subwoofer
measurements: http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1684:outlaw-audio-ultra-x13-subwoofer&catid=338&Itemid=349

Does anyone have HSU's vtf-15h mk2 CEA2010 with THDs? Ricci last tested mk1 and 115db performance was comparable below 22hz (looking at 2 ports open)

 

[gene]

Outlaw Audio has just launched a powerful new subwoofer, the Ultra-X13, which uses a 1,000 watt amplifier and a very long-throw 13" downfiring driver. According to Outlaw Audio, the Ultra-X13 is one of only two home audio subwoofers in the world that are THX Ultra certified as a single unit. It is a variable tuned subwoofer that can trade deep bass output for deep bass extension, and it also supports a sealed mode. The user can decide how they want it to handle deep bass. But there is a lot more going on with the Ultra-X13, so read on to find out more qualities of Outlaw Audio's intriguing new subwoofer.

Read: Outlaw Audio Ultra-X13 THX Ultra Certified Subwoofer Preview

 

[roadwarrior]

It depends. 20% second and third order THD at 20Hz probably isn't much to be concerned with. Doubly so if you're only reaching those levels during short term peaks that last some fraction of a second, and the source material is something like a movie explosion where there's no original event to speak of. Up at 50Hz+ with higher order harmonics in the mix, it's more of a problem.

Got it. That's in line with what else I've been told and read myself. Believe Brent Butterworth wrote an article about just this as well a while back. I love my Outlaw 5000 amp so I'm a fan of anything Outlaw. Just thinking out loud.

 

[everettT]

Is the amp an ice 2ch amp and speced for peak?

 

[shadyJ]

Got it. That's in line with what else I've been told and read myself. Believe Brent Butterworth wrote an article about just this as well a while back. I love my Outlaw 5000 amp so I'm a fan of anything Outlaw. Just thinking out loud.

Audibility of Distortion in Bass Frequencies

 

[shadyJ]

Is the amp an ice 2ch amp and speced for peak?

Audioholics preview article describes the amp. Not an Ice Power design, and not spec'd at peak.

 

[Schrodinger23]

I don't know about this subwoofer. I think $1500 is too much money. Of course we can't say for sure until we see the measurement in the Audioholics review. If the output is near that the the SVS PC13 Ultra and the HSU VTF 15H MK 2 and the Rythmik FV15HP, then I'm not sure what Outlaw is bringing to the table that is competitive. Let's run though the competition: HSU gets you that amount of output for probably the least amount of money. Then there is SVS, which while more expensive comes with their awesome customer service and free in home trial including shipping. Then there is Rythmik, which I think has the most output or HSU are neck and neck. But Rythmik is a servo sub and the price is between the HSU and the SVS. The Rythmik is very competitive for the price they sell it at. The retail price of the Outlaw is slightly more than the Rythmik. If it has the same output and not much in terms of looks, then it is a tough sell.

I'm not a hater of Outlaw by any means. In fact, right now an Outlaw LFM1 is my subwoofer. The looks were okay at this pricepoint, but when stepping up into the $1500 pricerange they better bring performance that bests the competition if they aren't improving things aesthetically. Ideally in this very competitive market a new sub would want to bring both.

 

[roadwarrior]

Thanks for that link @shadyJ. That's one of the other articles I've read on this subject as well. Just reread it again and it's as wonderfully informative today as it was back when I first read it. Not going to trade my Rythmik's in just yet for THX certification but I appreciate their making this a priority.

 

[shadyJ]

hey guys, I want to reiterate a point made in the Ultra-X13 article. The Ultra-X13 is a sub designed in part to target THX Ultra performance standards. These are very tough standards to meet. In fact, of its several modes of operation, the only configuration that is THX certified is with two ports open and the EQ switch set to 'EQ2'. Sealing one port will allow it to dig deeper, but it looks like it can not operate cleanly enough in that configuration for THX Ultra standards. This subwoofer is not designed to win a dB drag race- it was designed not to add anything audible to content reproduction that was not there originally. In fact, it looks to me like the distortion requirements set by THX have far more to do with the audibility of distortion than CEA-2010 distortion thresholds. The only problem with THX is that they are secretive about their standards and some of the science on which they are based.

 

[SubAHolic]

That's a beast of a sub!

 

[GFOViedo]

I like Outlaw products. I've owned 7 Outlaw monoblock amps, and they worked flawlessly. However, I do agree that the $1500 price tag is a little to high. I would rather buy a Power Sound Audio sub for that price.

 

[KEW]

hey guys, I want to reiterate a point made in the Ultra-X13 article. The Ultra-X13 is a sub designed in part to target THX Ultra performance standards. These are very tough standards to meet. In fact, of its several modes of operation, the only configuration that is THX certified is with two ports open and the EQ switch set to 'EQ2'. Sealing one port will allow it to dig deeper, but it looks like it can not operate cleanly enough in that configuration for THX Ultra standards. This subwoofer is not designed to win a dB drag race- it was designed not to add anything audible to content reproduction that was not there originally. In fact, it looks to me like the distortion requirements set by THX have far more to do with the audibility of distortion than CEA-2010 distortion thresholds. The only problem with THX is that they are secretive about their standards and some of the science on which they are based.

How does this work?
If I am a company who wants my product to be THX certified, it seems like an unreasonable task for me to attempt to design a product to meet specifications/test methods that are not well defined.
The only way I can think of to do that (trial & error with THX test lab saying "you need to lower THD in the 22-28Hz range"?) seems very annoying, especially if you have to pay for each battery of testing.

Edit: This is the first I've paid attention to a subwoofer having THX cert. Was THX cert on subs a more common thing back when AVR manufacturers were on-board with THX?

 

[shadyJ]

How does this work?
If I am a company who wants my product to be THX certified, it seems like an unreasonable task for me to attempt to design a product to meet specifications/test methods that are not well defined.
The only way I can think of to do that (trial & error with THX test lab saying "you need to lower THD in the 22-28Hz range"?) seems very annoying, especially if you have to pay for each battery of testing.

Edit: This is the first I've paid attention to a subwoofer having THX cert. Was THX cert on subs a more common thing back when AVR manufacturers were on-board with THX?

If you are a company that wants to make a subwoofer that meets THX certification, you would get in contact with THX, and they would have you and your engineers sign an NDA for the performance targets needed to attain certification.

THX has never been very common on subwoofers. THX performance targets are actually pretty strenuous, for a couple different reasons. Contrary to popular belief, THX is a lot more than meeting output goals for room sizes. In fact, for sheer output in simple sound pressure levels, the THX certifications aren't all that demanding, except for the 'Dominus' certification. THX is more about linearity and control.

 

[KEW]

If you are a company that wants to make a subwoofer that meets THX certification, you would get in contact with THX, and they would have you and your engineers sign an NDA for the performance targets needed to attain certification.

THX has never been very common on subwoofers. THX performance targets are actually pretty strenuous, for a couple different reasons. Contrary to popular belief, THX is a lot more than meeting output goals for room sizes. In fact, for sheer output in simple sound pressure levels, the THX certifications aren't all that demanding, except for the 'Dominus' certification. THX is more about linearity and control.

I was thinking of a non-disclosure agreement, but figured over time it would be common knowledge as it got leaked into forums by employees/ex-employees. But, as is, there is little interest/ incentive to leak it since no one knows/cares much about it.

It is a shame that it is not more recognized! I would rather have a standard for linearity and control vs max output and extension (which seems to be the CEA objectives); but having both would be perfect!!!