Taking Measurements For Audyssey Calibration

[Pogre]

Ok cool, yea I was just curious because you always have great things to add to the topics you weigh in on. I remember using Audyssey years ago on a entry level Denon that I had and it did a fine job. I just know that these tools have slowly been getting better over time and didn't know if you had any experience on the other options available and was wondering if there was something in particular about Audyssey that you really favored but now I know. Thx!

I'm also wanting to get my hands on a unit with Audyssey MultEQ XT32/SubEQ. It'll adjust levels and eq separately for 2 subs.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'm also wanting to get my hands on a unit with Audyssey MultEQ XT32/SubEQ. It'll adjust levels and eq separately for 2 subs.

You mean you'd give up your sub symmetry?

 

[Pogre]

You mean you'd give up your sub symmetry?

Um, uhhh... hmmm...

 

[lovinthehd]

Um, uhhh... hmmm...

No point in it if ya don't....

 

[Grassy]

@Porge,I thought about this the other day when taking some measurements with the pro kit.What the pro kit does is after taking the first measurement, it saves it as an amd file to the(in my case desktop) on my PC. Now when the second measurement is taken it saves the first and second measurement to the desktop in the 1 file,and so on with the 3rd and 4th up to 32 measurements.That means i can save all the measurements, as in the first by itself,1st and 2nd together,1st 2nd and third together and so on.Now back to your original post question, sometimes depending on your room shape and size 'less can mean more", now this does apply to Audyssey very much so i usually take lots of measurements, meaning at least 15 and load at least 5 which are all in the radius off where i sit and use that as a starting point.Because in the order they are saved,i have the opportunity to pick and choose which measurements i can load.For example,if i am not happy with the way measurement 1,2 and 3 sounds then i can load 1,2,3,4,5 together over the top off the previous load which will be automatically be deleted when loading new ones.After that the fine tuning comes into play and the ear test begins.This is in my case as my room and yours could vary a great deal.Also too its the good thing off having the pro kit.Not that i am a pro as i am far from it but its all in the system and the way you approach this that matters a lot and is another reason why a purchased the pro kit.Some would not bother but i like to have freedom off being able to set my gear up as much as possible.

 

[Pogre]

No point in it if ya don't....

So I'd be wasting my time with SubEQ unless I'm willing to move everything around? Does it find the best spots in the room for me?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

So I'd be wasting my time with SubEQ unless I'm willing to move everything around? Does it find the best spots in the room for me?

Not necessarily a waste. Your speakers/subs are symmetrical, but the room is not. The whole right side of your room is different than the left.(from what I can see) Remember your subs see the whole space for what it is, and not how your eyes do. No, subeq won't find anything lol. Sub crawl still goes a long way. That will help audyssey have to do less. Placement first, EQ second. I know you're waiting, but just to remind you, REW will help immensely.

 

[KEW]

I'm also wanting to get my hands on a unit with Audyssey MultEQ XT32/SubEQ. It'll adjust levels and eq separately for 2 subs.

Just a minor correction.
SubEQ matches level and phase for the two subs, then Audyssey treats it as one sub for the EQ process (and matching level and phase with the other speakers).
If you have symmetry, then the phase should already match between the two subs. The level should be very close assuming decent quality potentiometers.
Nonetheless, xt32 has more filters available for finer tuning.

 

[Pogre]

Not necessarily a waste. Your speakers/subs are symmetrical, but the room is not. The whole right side of your room is different than the left.(from what I can see) Remember your subs see the whole space for what it is, and not how your eyes do. No, subeq won't find anything lol. Sub crawl still goes a long way. That will help audyssey have to do less. Placement first, EQ second. I know you're waiting, but just to remind you, REW will help immensely.

Correct. the right side of my room opens up to anther room and I have a straight wall with a sliding glass door on the left. They really do seem best right up front using sub crawl. I've crawled all over too, trust me.

I'm reading this as REW and a MIC will help me out more than SubEQ, so I'm keeping my sites set on that. Plus it's a lot cheaper than buying a mid-upper tier avr...

 

[Pogre]

Just a minor correction.
SubEQ matches level and phase for the two subs, then Audyssey treats it as one sub for the EQ process (and matching level and phase with the other speakers).
If you have symmetry, then the phase should already match between the two subs. The level should be very close assuming decent quality potentiometers.
Nonetheless, xt32 has more filters available for finer tuning.

Thanks for the correction. I'm still learning. I'd love to get an avr with XT32, but it's just not happening any time soon. Like I said above, I'll keep my goal of getting a MiniDSP HD, mic and REW first.

 

[lovinthehd]

So I'd be wasting my time with SubEQ unless I'm willing to move everything around? Does it find the best spots in the room for me?

Largely. Assuming your subs are equidistant from your MLP they should already largely be time aligned and levels are fairly easy with same subs to get right even with other MultEQ programs (using one sub at a time). No, it doesn't assist you in placement. It's really more useful with differing distances from your MLP....

ps With the exception of the ability to use Audyssey Pro on older XT32 units like grassy points out....but the app is supposed to eliminate Audyssey Pro. That new app I'd like to play with on newer units, tho....

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Correct. the right side of my room opens up to anther room and I have a straight wall with a sliding glass door on the left. They really do seem best right up front using sub crawl. I've crawled all over too, trust me.

I'm reading this as REW and a MIC will help me out more than SubEQ, so I'm keeping my sites set on that. Plus it's a lot cheaper than buying a mid-upper tier avr...

Not exactly.
REW and a mic will be useful in setting up manually before audyssey does its thing. REW can also work with minidsp, so any way you do it, REW is an amazing tool, and the fact that it's free is crazy. Otoh(which I know is not the case because you're insane like the rest of us) you could just go with XT32 and tune by ear. Thousands of users do that, and that works too.

 

[Pogre]

Largely. Assuming your subs are equidistant from your MLP they should already largely be time aligned and levels are fairly easy with same subs to get right even with other MultEQ programs (using one sub at a time). No, it doesn't assist you in placement. It's really more useful with differing distances from your MLP....

Gotcha. And they are equidistant from my seat.

 

[Pogre]

Not exactly.
REW and a mic will be useful in setting up manually before audyssey does its thing. REW can also work with minidsp, so any way you do it, REW is an amazing tool, and the fact that it's free is crazy. Otoh(which I know is not the case because you're insane like the rest of us) you could just go with XT32 and tune by ear. Thousands of users do that, and that works too.

Yeah, forgot to mention a MINIDSP in that post. Going that route I think, will give me the results I'm looking for, for quite a bit less.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Yeah, forgot to mention a MINIDSP in that post. Going that route I think, will give me the results I'm looking for, for quite a bit less.

Agreed. You don't need to get into a new avr just yet. Minidsp will gain you a lot of mileage. Then when you're ready for a new avr, you'll already have all this other stuff! I just used mine today. (Umik that is).

 

[PENG]

Just a minor correction.
SubEQ matches level and phase for the two subs, then Audyssey treats it as one sub for the EQ process (and matching level and phase with the other speakers).
If you have symmetry, then the phase should already match between the two subs. The level should be very close assuming decent quality potentiometers.
Nonetheless, xt32 has more filters available for finer tuning.

That is right, for further clarity, Audsyssey treats the two level/phase matched subs as one by intention.

Below is pasted from the Audyssey FAQ on Sub EQ HT, 2 separate responses from Chris Kyriakakis to 2 questions related to this topic.

https://audyssey.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/212343803-SubEQ-HT-vs-MultEQ-XT32?page=2#comments

"Yes, that is what we found in our experiments. Aligning delays and levels first and then pinging the subs together consistently produced a smoother response. The objectives of the equalization strategy are a combination of all the factors you list using a (proprietary) weighting."

"The point is that equalizing each sub separately and then summing them (light blue curve) is not as flat as summing them (with delay and level compensation) and then equalizing the sub (pink curve)."

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

That is right, for further clarity, Audsyssey treats the two level/phase matched subs as one by intention.

Below is pasted from the Audyssey FAQ on Sub EQ HT, 2 separate responses from Chris Kyriakakis to 2 questions related to this topic.

https://audyssey.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/212343803-SubEQ-HT-vs-MultEQ-XT32?page=2#comments

"Yes, that is what we found in our experiments. Aligning delays and levels first and then pinging the subs together consistently produced a smoother response. The objectives of the equalization strategy are a combination of all the factors you list using a (proprietary) weighting."

"The point is that equalizing each sub separately and then summing them (light blue curve) is not as flat as summing them (with delay and level compensation) and then equalizing the sub (pink curve)."

Just to add. This is also how to EQ mutiple subs manually.

 

[PENG]

Just to add. This is also how to EQ mutiple subs manually.

Sounds logical to me.

 

[Hi Ho]

The multiple positions for Audyssey are NOT supposed to go in all of your seats. You are supposed to keep all of the positions within 24 inches of each other. YES you should measure as many as it will let you. The system is using those measurements to get a more accurate representation of the characteristics of your room and measuring more positions is only going to improve the accuracy.

 

[Pogre]

The multiple positions for Audyssey are NOT supposed to go in all of your seats. You are supposed to keep all of the positions within 24 inches of each other. YES you should measure as many as it will let you. The system is using those measurements to get a more accurate representation of the characteristics of your room and measuring more positions is only going to improve the accuracy.

I just got my new mic. The old one stopped functioning and I've been using one from a different model. Then I discovered that many have mics calibrated specifically for individual units. Called Denon and they sent me a replacement free of charge.

I'm going to do the circle @lovinthehd suggested. Now, do I take the first measurement right where I sit, then take the rest in a circle aound it? I also plan to drape a thick blanket over the back of my chair to reduce reflection.