Couple questions about Yamaha RX-A3060

Hasan Alnajdi

Hasan Alnajdi

Full Audioholic
If you don't have a strong background in electrical theory and the associated mathematics then it will take you much more time to learn enough to understand the Audioholics article linked.

For example, when you see the formula: Voltage Gain (Av) in dB = 20 * Log (Vout/Vin)

To understand what that is about, you can Google dB and Log, and find the following information:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decibel

"The decibel (dB) is a logarithmic unit used to express the ratio of two values of a physical quantity. One of these values is often a standard reference value, in which case the decibel is used to express the level[a] of the other value relative to this reference. When used in this way, the decibel symbol is often qualified with a suffix that indicates the reference quantity that has been used or some other property of the quantity being measured. For example, dBm indicates a reference power of one milliwatt, while dBV is referenced to 1 volt RMS.[1]"

Then you Google logarithmic and find:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logarithmic_scale

"A logarithmic scale is a nonlinear scale used when there is a large range of quantities. Common uses include the earthquake strength, sound loudness, light intensity, and pH of solutions."

For more detailed information on "logarithsm" read this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logarithm

The "log" (short form of logarithsm), in that formula is to the base of 10, again, the linked article above explained what that meant.

If you search hard enough, you may be able to find articles that gathered up most of the information and definition you need. Otherwise it is indeed a time consuming thing to search out all the information individually yourself.

You may also be able to find articles that tried to explain everything you need to know in non technical kind of language that most people can get the general idea.

In any case, there is always the chance that you may come across information that are simply incorrect, it's the internet after all.

I am already doing what you're saying.. I'm practically back to school now :) taking notes and looking up definitions. :)

The problem is I don't know what I am looking for untill I come across it.. talking to you guys helps alot where every question i ask open whole new area to explore.. i hope I won't be much of annoyance and i am already greateful for the info you shared... so once again thanks alot
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I am already doing what you're saying.. I'm practically back to school now :) taking notes and looking up definitions. :)
I forgot to mention, you may also try to ask the writer (Steve) directly, if there are specific terms, or paragraphs that you have hard time understanding because of the technical terms he used. He is very capable of explain things in easy to understand language.
 
Hasan Alnajdi

Hasan Alnajdi

Full Audioholic
I forgot to mention, you may also try to ask the writer (Steve) directly, if there are specific terms, or paragraphs that you have hard time understanding because of the technical terms he used. He is very capable of explain things in easy to understand language.
I'll sure keep that in mind.. thanks friend
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I forgot to mention, you may also try to ask the writer (Steve) directly, if there are specific terms, or paragraphs that you have hard time understanding because of the technical terms he used. He is very capable of explain things in easy to understand language.
Thought he was talking about the article by Wayne P....
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Well then what I said didn't apply as I hardly know Wayne. Are you sure though, you did link him both to read right?
I linked Wayne's longer explanation of gain structure first (you've not noticed Wayne Pflughaupt's posting or you just know Steve M better?); I later linked Steve's article which is relatively short and sweet in comparison :)

What he's after is a simple way to set sensitivity/gain in using the XLi amp with his avr and thought some background info was in order.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I linked Wayne's longer explanation of gain structure first (you've not noticed Wayne Pflughaupt's posting or you just know Steve M better?); I later linked Steve's article which is relatively short and sweet in comparison :)

What he's after is a simple way to set sensitivity/gain in using the XLi amp with his avr and thought some background info was in order.
Yes, that's why I said you linked both Wayne's and Steve's. I do know Steve, electronically only, better. That's why I know he can explain things in simple terms if he wants to. Another member, Herbu, can do a good job reading something technical and translating it in layman's terms too.
 
Hasan Alnajdi

Hasan Alnajdi

Full Audioholic
Hey guys.. back to the discussion

From what I understood a power amp takes the signal from the avr and make it stronger... my question is will the signal be processed by the avr or the amp or it wont be processed at all?

Another question regarding quality of sound, will it be affected? Considering the amp capabilities?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Hey guys.. back to the discussion

From what I understood a power amp takes the signal from the avr and make it stronger... my question is will the signal be processed by the avr or the amp or it wont be processed at all?

Another question regarding quality of sound, will it be affected? Considering the amp capabilities?
Yes....a power amp would amplify the signal processed by the avr (or a separate pre-amp/processor, or pre-pro for short) for the speakers to be able to utilize; in the case of using the power amp the avr is acting as the processor. Depends on what you mean by processing to an extent as to how little or how much the avr will be doing....there are direct type modes to minimize processing (I just looked at the back panel of yours, it seems to lack multi-ch analog inputs which some avrs have to even pass thru multi-ch audio unprocessed or minimally processed by the avr/pre-pro).

Depends on the capabilities of the power supply and internal amps of the avr vs those of the external amp as well as your speakers as to any advantages the external amp will provide. Some will say the amp determines the sound quality the most, but an amp is really only as good as the signal it's amplifying, and hopefully it simply accurately amplifies it. You can find many threads debating such. I've used external amps with my avrs but currently am not, mostly due to lower listening levels these days (after getting a bit of tinnitus have felt it best to turn it down).
 
Hasan Alnajdi

Hasan Alnajdi

Full Audioholic
Yes....a power amp would amplify the signal processed by the avr (or a separate pre-amp/processor, or pre-pro for short) for the speakers to be able to utilize; in the case of using the power amp the avr is acting as the processor. Depends on what you mean by processing to an extent as to how little or how much the avr will be doing....there are direct type modes to minimize processing (I just looked at the back panel of yours, it seems to lack multi-ch analog inputs which some avrs have to even pass thru multi-ch audio unprocessed or minimally processed by the avr/pre-pro).

Depends on the capabilities of the power supply and internal amps of the avr vs those of the external amp as well as your speakers as to any advantages the external amp will provide. Some will say the amp determines the sound quality the most, but an amp is really only as good as the signal it's amplifying, and hopefully it simply accurately amplifies it. You can find many threads debating such. I've used external amps with my avrs but currently am not, mostly due to lower listening levels these days (after getting a bit of tinnitus have felt it best to turn it down).
Overall, do you think it's a good idea to use power amp in my case? Or should I just keep it the way it is?
 
Hasan Alnajdi

Hasan Alnajdi

Full Audioholic
I mean i can get dtsx and atmos with 9.2 anyhow.. why the extra trouble
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Overall, do you think it's a good idea to use power amp in my case? Or should I just keep it the way it is?
Couldn't tell you how much it may be worth to you, I just enjoy playing with things audio (and bicycle). I've got a 9.4 setup in my living room, someday soon I'll try 11.4 (I use a Denon 4520), and for that I'll need to add a power amp. I may try my current mains (L/C/R) with a power amp if I get bored some day, who knows as these particular speakers I added after the last time I used a power amp with the avr and would like to try that at least once (just for the heck of it if anything).

I've still got a 5.2 setup in my bedroom, it's a fairly small room, tho. In my workshop I've got a 5.3 setup and will make that 7ch soon. I've used 7ch for a while in my living rooms (this and the house before this, both fairly large rooms), just went to 9ch several months ago with wides in addition to the rear surround configuration I'd been using, will add front heights when going to 11ch.

If I wanted to go through the effort of ceiling speakers I would try the object-based stuff like Atmos, DTS:X etc....but I don't want to and doubt I will any time soon (nor go to 4K video).
 
Hasan Alnajdi

Hasan Alnajdi

Full Audioholic
To me the way i see it there are too many variables which I still don't completely understand... I wont make a fast decision and do anything like buying my speakers without knowing exactly how they will perform... luckily my speakers have high sensitivity and high impedance.. but I still don't know what other specs I should've looked for before buying them.. and why othe polk speakers which by the way have less sensitivity are considered better... hearing them in a showroom is not an option for only few are connected.. my only option is to understand everything there is to know and it's gonna take me a while to do so as PENG mentioned.. luckily, my niece is an electric engineer and I'm gonna make her do the math for me.. God help her
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
@Hasan Alnajdi, I'm impressed with your English and your process of learning about this. You ask intelligent questions and do your homework. Reading this entire thread and watching you learn was a fun read. Good job!
 
Hasan Alnajdi

Hasan Alnajdi

Full Audioholic
@Hasan Alnajdi, I'm impressed with your English and your process of learning about this. You ask intelligent questions and do your homework. Reading this entire thread and watching you learn was a fun read. Good job!
Thank you dear friend.. I take your words as a greate motive to continue learning.. unfortunately I'm just scratching the surface of all this and I got long way ahead... but allow me to ask you and other friends here one question.. what most people want from their home theater systems? Is it loudness or clarity of details or both? Or maybe its something else? I am asking this question to get a background of what's the ultimate norm in the community and what audioholics are all about?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
FWIW I use my systems for both movies and music myself, in a variety of formats, and I want them to be able to play as accurately and as loudly as I desire; I don't desire as much loudness as in my younger days, though. That may not be any help....
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Thank you dear friend.. I take your words as a greate motive to continue learning.. unfortunately I'm just scratching the surface of all this and I got long way ahead... but allow me to ask you and other friends here one question.. what most people want from their home theater systems? Is it loudness or clarity of details or both? Or maybe its something else? I am asking this question to get a background of what's the ultimate norm in the community and what audioholics are all about?
That, is a very subjective thing. Different people have tastes that are sometimes the opposite of what someone else might love. Me personally I like a sound just a touch on the bright side and lots of clean bass. Music was, and always is, my first goal. I believe that if you can get the sound you like for music, the equipment you choose will work just as well for home theater use. A good sounding speaker is a good sounding speaker.

I go for detail and clarity and a nice flat response (or a touch on the bright side). For me to be happy I need a speaker that will play clean at higher volumes and a pair of subwoofers. Some folks don't want a sub. It really is dependant on individual taste. There's no "one size fits all" solution out there, though many can agree on good sounding speakers.
 
Hasan Alnajdi

Hasan Alnajdi

Full Audioholic
FWIW I use my systems for both movies and music myself, in a variety of formats, and I want them to be able to play as accurately and as loudly as I desire; I don't desire as much loudness as in my younger days, though. That may not be any help....
Actually it does help for I share most of what you said with you
 
Hasan Alnajdi

Hasan Alnajdi

Full Audioholic
That, is a very subjective thing. Different people have tastes that are sometimes the opposite of what someone else might love. Me personally I like a sound just a touch on the bright side and lots of clean bass. Music was, and always is, my first goal. I believe that if you can get the sound you like for music, the equipment you choose will work just as well for home theater use. A good sounding speaker is a good sounding speaker.

I go for detail and clarity and a nice flat response (or a touch on the bright side). For me to be happy I need a speaker that will play clean at higher volumes and a pair of subwoofers. Some folks don't want a sub. It really is dependant on individual taste. There's no "one size fits all" solution out there, though many can agree on good sounding speakers.
I get what you're saying but even good sounding speakers is a subjective thing, or is it not?
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
I get what you're saying but even good sounding speakers is a subjective thing, or is it not?
Yes, however there are some brands or companies that many agree upon as being good makers of speakers. While individual tastes vary, most can agree on a truly good sounding speaker. Where it gets more individualized is, do you want a sub for deep bass? How does it sound in your room? Do you like a bright sounding speaker or a warm sounding speaker?

What ways you may prefer to eq your system can change the sound significantly. Starting with a good speaker that has a flat (neutral) response is a great way to get closer to what you want as it will not color the sound or add much to the original source material. The goal is to get a speaker to sound as natural as possible, then make it work in your room with eq or my preference, room correction software (which many modern avr's have) . The room and they way you position your speakers is almost as important as your speaker selection
 
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