Emotiva A300 to Yamaha 3060? DAC improvements over 2015 to 2016 model Aventage

[AUDIOCRAZE]

Hey folks newer to the thread and have seen similar posts but my situation is a little different and figured I'd open a new thread. Just upgraded from a 1050 to 3060 being shipped today. I'm currently at 5.0.2 and upgrading within the next 6 months to 7.0.4. I currently have Klipsch RP280F, 450C, RP140SA for Atmos and will be adding another pair of RP160M to match my rear for side surround. Should I go for the Emotiva A-300 and match it to the front left right channel or save myself the money and get something inexpensive to just push the Rear Atmos modules?? For stereo music playback I'll be getting 150wpc it's only going to be affected when all 11 channels are firing. I do live in an apartment and this is why I don't have subs however I do want to get the best performance not SPL out of my system this is why I'm trying to figure out which route to go since I have to get an amp.

Second question is what are if any the audible improvements between the 05 Aventage line which had 1 DAC vs the 2016 06 which have 2; one specifically for the presence channels. I'm curious because on my 1050 it sounded phenomenal but on DTSHDMA with surround decoder neural X it didn't perform as good as I read on Audioholics review videos same with Dolby surround on True Hd. It's sounded great with Native stuff. I'm curious if the chip architecture is better optimized and if it will sound better Native and un-natively. Thx!

 

[PENG]

Hey folks newer to the thread and have seen similar posts but my situation is a little different and figured I'd open a new thread. Just upgraded from a 1050 to 3060 being shipped today. I'm currently at 5.0.2 and upgrading within the next 6 months to 7.0.4. I currently have Klipsch RP280F, 450C, RP140SA for Atmos and will be adding another pair of RP160M to match my rear for side surround. Should I go for the Emotiva A-300 and match it to the front left right channel or save myself the money and get something inexpensive to just push the Rear Atmos modules?? For stereo music playback I'll be getting 150wpc it's only going to be affected when all 11 channels are firing. I do live in an apartment and this is why I don't have subs however I do want to get the best performance not SPL out of my system this is why I'm trying to figure out which route to go since I have to get an amp.

The RP series have super high sensitivity but you know that already. Even if you subtract 6 dB from their specified numbers to allow for marketing hype and perhaps some exaggeration in their nominal impedance, they would still end up with sensitivity in the neighborhood of 90 dB/1W/1m. So unless your room is really big and you must listen to reference or higher levels, more amplifier power won't improve sound quality for you.

If you do need more power for those reasons, the A300 won't make much difference at all, you should probably be looking to the pro amps such as those made by QSC and Crown audios. In fact if you are determined to get the A300, I would suggest you use it for the other channels and leave the L/R mains with the RX-A3060 for it's better dynamic capability for hifi stereo enjoyment.

Second question is what are if any the audible improvements between the 05 Aventage line which had 1 DAC vs the 2016 06 which have 2; one specifically for the presence channels. I'm curious because on my 1050 it sounded phenomenal but on DTSHDMA with surround decoder neural X it didn't perform as good as I read on Audioholics review videos same with Dolby surround on True Hd. It's sounded great with Native stuff. I'm curious if the chip architecture is better optimized and if it will sound better Native and un-natively. Thx!

I am sure a lot of people can hear the difference between DACs but in theory even the RX-A1050's ES9006A has specs that are far superior to any high end preamps/amps so unless there are other reasons behind the scene, I doubt the upgrade to the ES9016S would make an audible difference. Regardless, if I were to get a Yamaha I would definitely go for the 3060 because of the higher end DAC but that's just me. I have quite a few DACs and is about to get another one, the Oppo Sonica, but I honestly cannot say one sounds better than the other.

So for practical value, the RX-A2050, A2060 are probably better but to me the 3060 is still the best choice for people who can spare a few hundred dollars more. Now, the CX5100 uses ES9016S for even the surround channels, that to me is too much, what a waste..

 

[AUDIOCRAZE]

Thank you for the reply. I'm condisering this option because my father has the same speakers but being pushed by a XPA5 and the sound was just fuller in the midrange and low end. So it would be for reference reasons. I'm not looking to get louder though I just think that even though the are efficient on paper they really sound better with more dynamic power. I think maybe I'll use the Yamaha for the mains but if I go that route is there any other option less expensive to power the surrounds?? Something with decent quality. I know the mono price has a 2 channel option for $280usd but I can't seem to find anything else. I'm going to be at over just 10 grand and it's the deepest rabbit hole I've ever undertaken.

As for your though process on the DAC and the 3060 this is one of the reason why I pulled the trigger on it over the 2060. So I'm totally with you on that. As for the CX5100 yea 11 sabre 32s are a bit overkill! But hey I wouldn't mind having it in a future 3070 that wouldn't ever happen though lol

The RP series have super high sensitivity but you know that already. Even if you subtract 6 dB from their specified numbers to allow for marketing hype and perhaps some exaggeration in their nominal impedance, they would still end up with sensitivity in the neighborhood of 90 dB/1W/1m. So unless your room is really big and you must listen to reference or higher levels, more amplifier power won't improve sound quality for you.

If you do need more power for those reasons, the A300 won't make much difference at all, you should probably be looking to the pro amps such as those made by QSC and Crown audios. In fact if you are determined to get the A300, I would suggest you use it for the other channels and leave the L/R mains with the RX-A3060 for it's better dynamic capability for hifi stereo enjoyment.



I am sure a lot of people can hear the difference between DACs but in theory even the RX-A1050's ES9006A has specs that are far superior to any high end preamps/amps so unless there are other reasons behind the scene, I doubt the upgrade to the ES9016S would make an audible difference. Regardless, if I were to get a Yamaha I would definitely go for the 3060 because of the higher end DAC but that's just me. I have quite a few DACs and is about to get another one, the Oppo Sonica, but I honestly cannot say one sounds better than the other.

So for practical value, the RX-A2050, A2060 are probably better but to me the 3060 is still the best choice for people who can spare a few hundred dollars more. Now, the CX5100 uses ES9016S for even the surround channels, that to me is too much, what a waste..

The RP series have super high sensitivity but you know that already. Even if you subtract 6 dB from their specified numbers to allow for marketing hype and perhaps some exaggeration in their nominal impedance, they would still end up with sensitivity in the neighborhood of 90 dB/1W/1m. So unless your room is really big and you must listen to reference or higher levels, more amplifier power won't improve sound quality for you.

If you do need more power for those reasons, the A300 won't make much difference at all, you should probably be looking to the pro amps such as those made by QSC and Crown audios. In fact if you are determined to get the A300, I would suggest you use it for the other channels and leave the L/R mains with the RX-A3060 for it's better dynamic capability for hifi stereo enjoyment.



I am sure a lot of people can hear the difference between DACs but in theory even the RX-A1050's ES9006A has specs that are far superior to any high end preamps/amps so unless there are other reasons behind the scene, I doubt the upgrade to the ES9016S would make an audible difference. Regardless, if I were to get a Yamaha I would definitely go for the 3060 because of the higher end DAC but that's just me. I have quite a few DACs and is about to get another one, the Oppo Sonica, but I honestly cannot say one sounds better than the other.

So for practical value, the RX-A2050, A2060 are probably better but to me the 3060 is still the best choice for people who can spare a few hundred dollars more. Now, the CX5100 uses ES9016S for even the surround channels, that to me is too much, what a waste..

th

 

[PENG]

Thank you for the reply. I'm condisering this option because my father has the same speakers but being pushed by a XPA5 and the sound was just fuller in the midrange and low end. So it would be for reference reasons. I'm not looking to get louder though I just think that even though the are efficient on paper they really sound better with more dynamic power. I think maybe I'll use the Yamaha for the mains but if I go that route is there any other option less expensive to power the surrounds?? Something with decent quality. I know the mono price has a 2 channel option for $280usd but I can't seem to find anything else. I'm going to be at over just 10 grand and it's the deepest rabbit hole I've ever undertaken.

If your father is getting fuller sound using the XPA5, assuming it is not due to Placebo effect, then it means that his speakers are really drawing the additional power the XPA-5 can provide. I think the XPA-5 probably can give 2 dB more than the 3060. I suggest you try the 3060 on its own first and see how that goes.

 

[PENG]

As an alternative to the Monolith amps, how about THIS amp?

 

[lovinthehd]

As an alternative to the Monolith amps, how about THIS amp?

Think he was referring not to the Monolith amps but rather this one

 

[j_garcia]

Think he was referring not to the Monolith amps but rather this one

That looks like an Audiosource AMP300 with no logo. Pretty hefty, but I don't really think it will be sufficient for what you are talking about. It is not as powerful as the XPA-5 (I own both, I have a lot of amps laying around) and would be only a marginal improvement over the AVR's power. It will be more similar to the A300 than not.

 

[PENG]

Think he was referring not to the Monolith amps but rather this one

Yes, I realized he meant that one but somehow I wrote Monolith.

 

[PENG]

That looks like an Audiosource AMP300 with no logo. Pretty hefty, but I don't really think it will be sufficient for what you are talking about. It is not as powerful as the XPA-5 (I own both, I have a lot of amps laying around) and would be only a marginal improvement over the AVR's power. It will be more similar to the A300 than not.

Given that he has the Klispch RP series speakers and based on published specs and historic bench test data on Yamaha and Emo amps, I am of the opinion that he can do very well powering the front 3 channels with the RX-A3060 and the surround channels with something like that 5X120W Outlaw amp. The XPA-5 is nice and more powerful for sure, but cost quite a bit more just for it to sit there and look good.

 

[AUDIOCRAZE]

I appreciate all of your advice. What I'm gathering from the posts is that it's worth utilizing the 3060 as much as possible. If I tried to compromise and go middle of the road for the front mains compromising due to cost won't really be an added benefit. Only going higher on WPC for front stage or doing a multichannel instead of a 2 channel to ease the burden off the 3060 and giving me higher output on the channels being driven by the 3060 would be another viable option. Doing this though still keeps me in the $600+ Range.

So I believe Ive hit my budget cap and given the information gathered I'm thinking that going with a Emotiva A-150 at $299.00 to power one of the surrounds will be my only cost effective option to solve the powering of the remaining 2 channels but not adding any more capability. Upgrading to 7.0.4 from 5.0.2 is costing me roughly an additional 2 grand and folks I've built the existing system within a year so it's been a monumental aquistion. I'm reaching the end of the road and do feel financially exhausted.

Having come to this conclusion any other nicely built 2channel amps 50 to 75 wpc for $300 or below maybe $400 max if it's really nice? Thx guys I think we've narrowed it down to this solution.

 

[AUDIOCRAZE]

That looks like an Audiosource AMP300 with no logo. Pretty hefty, but I don't really think it will be sufficient for what you are talking about. It is not as powerful as the XPA-5 (I own both, I have a lot of amps laying around) and would be only a marginal improvement over the AVR's power. It will be more similar to the A300 than not.

Wow you're right!! Haha my father actually has 2 of Audiosource version bridged in mono config. I didn't realize it was the same amp without the logo. He's had them for years powering a pair of JBL 4350 studio monitors. I realized what you were talking about when I pulled the picture up and saw the led bulb in the center and I know it lights up blue. That's so weird!

Hmm... the post I Put prior I think I'll be keeping it simple and just power the surrounds with the Emotiva A150 although I do know that Audiosource amp was solid for the price but then again it's no logo which I don't even know what that means.

Here's an old clip of those beasts with the audiosource powering them hence the blue lights on the right rack

 

[little wing]

Hey folks newer to the thread and have seen similar posts but my situation is a little different and figured I'd open a new thread. Just upgraded from a 1050 to 3060 being shipped today. I'm currently at 5.0.2 and upgrading within the next 6 months to 7.0.4. I currently have Klipsch RP280F, 450C, RP140SA for Atmos and will be adding another pair of RP160M to match my rear for side surround. Should I go for the Emotiva A-300 and match it to the front left right channel or save myself the money and get something inexpensive to just push the Rear Atmos modules?? For stereo music playback I'll be getting 150wpc it's only going to be affected when all 11 channels are firing. I do live in an apartment and this is why I don't have subs however I do want to get the best performance not SPL out of my system this is why I'm trying to figure out which route to go since I have to get an amp.

Second question is what are if any the audible improvements between the 05 Aventage line which had 1 DAC vs the 2016 06 which have 2; one specifically for the presence channels. I'm curious because on my 1050 it sounded phenomenal but on DTSHDMA with surround decoder neural X it didn't perform as good as I read on Audioholics review videos same with Dolby surround on True Hd. It's sounded great with Native stuff. I'm curious if the chip architecture is better optimized and if it will sound better Native and un-natively. Thx!

I recently purchased the 3060 and all I can say is, wait until after you hear it power ALL your speakers before you decide on external amplification. I am using Ascend Acoustics tower speakers with matching center and a Rythmik sub, in a 12 1/2 by 18 ft room and I don't feel I have much need for external amps at the moment.

 

[PENG]

I recently purchased the 3060 and all I can say is, wait until after you hear it power ALL your speakers before you decide on external amplification. I am using Ascend Acoustics tower speakers with matching center and a Rythmik sub, in a 12 1/2 by 18 ft room and I don't feel I have much need for external amps at the moment.

That's what I suggested him to do. He still seems to worry about too much burden for the 3060 to power so many channels and that's why I suggested the low cost (unfortunately still $599) Outlaw amp.

 

[PENG]

Wow you're right!! Haha my father actually has 2 of Audiosource version bridged in mono config. I didn't realize it was the same amp without the logo. He's had them for years powering a pair of JBL 4350 studio monitors. I realized what you were talking about when I pulled the picture up and saw the led bulb in the center and I know it lights up blue. That's so weird!

Hmm... the post I Put prior I think I'll be keeping it simple and just power the surrounds with the Emotiva A150 although I do know that Audiosource amp was solid for the price but then again it's no logo which I don't even know what that means.

Here's an old clip of those beasts with the audiosource powering them hence the blue lights on the right rack

The Emo A150 is a low cost solution but on a $/W basis the 5X120W Outlaw is far superior so I highly recommend you wait to see if an amp is really needed; and if not then bite the bullet and get something that really counts for $300 more.

One thing I need to remind you is that going from 5 to 7 and then 9 channel does not mean the power requirements will go up proportionally, in fact far from it. The manufacturers who design such multi channel AVRs know that not all channels will be driven at the same time to the same level of output, and sizes the power supply accordingly to maximum the dynamic capability of each channel. Yamaha is very good at doing this.

 

[j_garcia]

Wow you're right!! Haha my father actually has 2 of Audiosource version bridged in mono config. I didn't realize it was the same amp without the logo. He's had them for years powering a pair of JBL 4350 studio monitors. I realized what you were talking about when I pulled the picture up and saw the led bulb in the center and I know it lights up blue. That's so weird!

Hmm... the post I Put prior I think I'll be keeping it simple and just power the surrounds with the Emotiva A150 although I do know that Audiosource amp was solid for the price but then again it's no logo which I don't even know what that means.

Here's an old clip of those beasts with the audiosource powering them hence the blue lights on the right rack

The LED in the center and knobs were why I recognized it right away too. Audiosource was sold a few times so it may just be that someone is producing them and selling them without the logo, or these were a batch that were simply manufactured without the logo mistakenly and were sold off to someone like monoprice.

 

[slipperybidness]

If your father is getting fuller sound using the XPA5, assuming it is not due to Placebo effect, then it means that his speakers are really drawing the additional power the XPA-5 can provide. I think the XPA-5 probably can give 2 dB more than the 3060. I suggest you try the 3060 on its own first and see how that goes.

Or....Room Acoustics!

 

[little wing]

That's what I suggested him to do. He still seems to worry about too much burden for the 3060 to power so many channels and that's why I suggested the low cost (unfortunately still $599) Outlaw amp.

Yeah.. I mean in the end he is going to do what he wants, but why spend more money on amps before you hook up your new 2k receiver and see what it can do. If the OP was purchasing a lower quality receiver I would be inclined to say yes, go for it. And I would recommend Outlaw over Emo, but that's just me.

And I agree with slippery's post above. I took pictures of my room and had it analyzed by the good folks at GIK Acoustics and bass traps are my next move for sure..

 

[KEW]

Having come to this conclusion any other nicely built 2channel amps 50 to 75 wpc for $300 or below maybe $400 max if it's really nice? Thx guys I think we've narrowed it down to this solution.

If you are willing to do refurbished amps, this one is very nice!

2 X 75W RMS/channel Into 8 Ohms, .05% THD (both Channels Driven)
2 X 120W RMS/channel Into 4 Ohms, .08% THD (both Channels Driven)
Stable Into Low-Impedance Loads (2.66 Ohms)

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/nilessi275/niles-si-275-2-ch-x-75-watts-power-amplifier-fg00778/1.html#!more

 

[AUDIOCRAZE]

If you are willing to do refurbished amps, this one is very nice!

2 X 75W RMS/channel Into 8 Ohms, .05% THD (both Channels Driven)
2 X 120W RMS/channel Into 4 Ohms, .08% THD (both Channels Driven)
Stable Into Low-Impedance Loads (2.66 Ohms)

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/nilessi275/niles-si-275-2-ch-x-75-watts-power-amplifier-fg00778/1.html#!more

Not bad, not bad at all thx for sharing!

 

[AUDIOCRAZE]

Yeah.. I mean in the end he is going to do what he wants, but why spend more money on amps before you hook up your new 2k receiver and see what it can do. If the OP was purchasing a lower quality receiver I would be inclined to say yes, go for it. And I would recommend Outlaw over Emo, but that's just me.

And I agree with slippery's post above. I took pictures of my room and had it analyzed by the good folks at GIK Acoustics and bass traps are my next move for sure..

I follow you allá suggestions just keep in mind that I have to get a 2 channel amp due to the 3060 being able to process 11 channels but only having amplification for 9. I just wasn't sure if it was worth spending a little more and doing the modification to the front l/r channels. From what I've gathered though due to my budget constraints it's not. So o went ahead and ordered the Emotiva A150 today to just power the rear Atmos modules.