Denon AVR-X3300W vs. Yamaha RX-A1060? AND, what about refurbished from A4L?

[lithnights]

I thought I had finalized my new receiver search (narrowed down to Yamaha 1060) but a few posts/threads I've read have now opened me up to a Denon 3300. I've read the specs and reviews and seen pictures, but just want to make sure I'm not missing anything important between these 2. Currently have three Speakercraft AIM7 speakers up front and two AIM5 in the back with a Def Tech supercube 2000. Room is 22x15. 50% movies/TV, 50% music.

Both receivers have 7 channels, 105-110 watts, wifi, 8 HDMI inputs, 2 sub outs, large display on front (which ruled out the Marantz for me), and most other relevant specs (to me) seem the same.

What I see are the differences are..

• Yamaha shows which speakers are playing on the front display, which I find interesting.
• Yamaha is 11 pounds heavier. I assume this is a good thing, quality wise.
• Denon has a nicer and simpler remote IMO
• Denon is typically cheaper at $1000, but I can get the Yamaha on sale for $1060 vs the typical $1200. I guess I like the idea of getting a quality item on sale like that.
• Denon uses Audyssey while the Yamaha uses YPAO. I assume this wouldn't matter for a non-audiophile like me, and it seems that opinions are split on which is better.

With that said, are there any differences I'm missing? Would you lean towards one or the other?

ALSO, I saw the Denon on accessorie4less for only $630. It's refurbished and only has a 1 year warranty, but that's 37% off, which seems just a crazy low price. I've never purchased refurbished so of course I'm hesitant there.

Any thoughts on these 3 options (Yamaha, Denon new, Denon refurbished)?

Thanks in advance,

 

[j_garcia]

They will exchange it for another model if they don't have one in that 1yr period. I've bought from them and never had any issues.

 

[Bucknekked]

ALSO, I saw the Denon on accessorie4less for only $630. It's refurbished and only has a 1 year warranty, but that's 37% off, which seems just a crazy low price. I've never purchased refurbished so of course I'm hesitant there.

Any thoughts on these 3 options (Yamaha, Denon new, Denon refurbished)?

I just bought a x4200w from accessories4less refurbished. It looked brand new.
It also failed during the first 24 hours of use.
Customer service was very good: better than most I have experienced recently.
They gave me a return authorization within an hour or so.
I returned the defective receiver at their cost to FEDEX.
As soon as FEDEX recorded receipt of the old receiver, they shipped me a new one. At their cost.

I haven't received the new one yet as this just happened on friday.
The replacement will show up this week and we'll try again.
Honestly, the box looked brand new. Customer service was very prompt. Terms for returns excellent.
I would do it again.

 

[lovinthehd]

Audyssey has generally has a better rep on subwoofer eq/integration so I lean towards Denon but otoh never used a Yamaha (have used Pioneer, Sony, Onkyo and Denon, currently using all but the Pioneer that crapped out). I had two bad Denon refurbs (one DOA, the other took a month) via A4L but A4L's service was excellent. Denon's refurb certifier (Panurgy ?) apparently not so much.

Many have had no issues with their refurbs, though. Your credit card may extend your refurb warranty (mine did) or you can buy a supplemental policy and still be ahead.

Yamaha does do hdmi certification and has a somewhat better reliability record per industry sources...

 

[lithnights]

I'm thinking my concern with A4L, is that my ear is not an audiophile ear, so if there is something off about a refurbished model, I may not be able to tell for sure. Obviously if the thing stops working or has some other obvious flaw, I'd notice. But, I'm a total newbie here so if it was a more subtle problem, I'm not sure I'd have the confidence to notice what it is and initiate a return action. Does that make sense?

 

[lovinthehd]

Audiophile ears (the so-called "golden ears") are mostly nonsense. Audiophile simply means someone enthusiastic about hi fidelity audio reproduction, so, sorry, you're already an audiophile.

Many electronic items if they're going to fail will fail within a fairly short time, bell curve stuff and all that. I couldn't even get the DOA unit to boot up and start the setup process. The second went crazy with volume settings (nothing subtle at all). I've bought other refurb basis electronics and the Denons were the worst experience I've had by far but I'd still not write them off for the potential savings, might depend on your tolerance for setting up and tearing down your system several times....

I don't think you'd have to worry about one obscure thing or two not functioning properly but by all means run the unit through its various settings to make sure it's functional....new or refurb units.

 

[Pogre]

I've had good luck with ac4l. I bought my current receiver (Denon X1200W) from them... about a 6-7 months ago? It's still working great. Looked brand new when I got it.

 

[Bucknekked]

I'm thinking my concern with A4L, is that my ear is not an audiophile ear, so if there is something off about a refurbished model, I may not be able to tell for sure. Obviously if the thing stops working or has some other obvious flaw, I'd notice. But, I'm a total newbie here so if it was a more subtle problem, I'm not sure I'd have the confidence to notice what it is and initiate a return action. Does that make sense?

like lovinthehd said: the failure was not subtle. The unit powered off by itself and refused to turn back on. About as subtle as a brick through a window. If you have good enough sense to come to AH and ask questions BEFORE you buy something, you have enough sense to know when something's broken or not right.

 

[lithnights]

Thanks everyone for the thoughts on the A4L option. It gives me something to think about.

With that said, I was curious what folks thought of the 2 units themselves, and whether I have the differences analyzed accurately. i.e. are there any differences/concerns I'm missing between the 3300 and 1060?

Thanks,

 

[Good4it]

Many electronic items if they're going to fail will fail within a fairly short time, bell curve stuff and all that.

It's called infant mortality

 

[Bucknekked]

Thanks everyone for the thoughts on the A4L option. It gives me something to think about.

With that said, I was curious what folks thought of the 2 units themselves, and whether I have the differences analyzed accurately. i.e. are there any differences/concerns I'm missing between the 3300 and 1060?

Thanks,

Both are solid choices. Cant go wrong with either one. Personal preference comes in to play now. Choose either one and you should be happy.
I am a Denon guy, but thats really just a personal preference. Other members will take the Yamaha.

In the end, you're choosing between 2 solid choices

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks everyone for the thoughts on the A4L option. It gives me something to think about.

With that said, I was curious what folks thought of the 2 units themselves, and whether I have the differences analyzed accurately. i.e. are there any differences/concerns I'm missing between the 3300 and 1060?

Thanks,

I'd pick the unit that has the features and connectivity and price that work the best for my setup. They're more similar than different in most respects. Different dsp doesn't make one necessarily "better" than the other.

 

[PENG]

It would be easier to choose if you throw the AVR-X4300W in the mix, or wait for the $799 deal on the X4200W to return, otherwise, see post#12 above.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I just bought a x4200w from accessories4less refurbished. It looked brand new.
It also failed during the first 24 hours of use.

I would never buy anything over $100 Refurbished, especially something as complex as an AVR.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yeah, I would wait and keep an eye on Amazon for the Denon 3300 to be $599 or 4300 to be $799 BRAND NEW.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

As far as Audyssey XT32 vs Yamaha's ?

I would definitely take the Audyssey XT32. Although I use Audyssey Bypass L/R, the salient feature for me is the Audyssey DYNAMIC EQ (not Volume EQ).

Dynamic EQ unequivocally and significantly (night and day) enhances the bass experience for me.

Also keep in mind that when Audyssey XT32 came out, Denon offered owners of the $7,500 Denon AVP-A1HDCI and $5,500 AVR-5308 the option to upgrade from XT to XT32 for $1,200!!!!!

And many owners actually paid $1,200 just to upgrade to XT32.

And now people can buy the Denon 3300 with XT32 (and pay $599 for brand new Denon 3300 when on sale on Amazon or Fry's).

 

[M Code]

If U like gambling buy a refurb, all is fine if the unit checks out OK..
Often returning a refurb can be an issue especially for freight costs..
Regarding overall AVR reliability Yamaha is #1 by far...

Just my $0.02...

 

[PENG]

I have never bought any refurbished AVR so I shouldn't be recommending any, and that's why I typically suggest people to wait for the $799 deal X4200W, or $599 for the X3300W brand new. I do believe sooner or later those deals will return. As ADTG alluded to, if not the X4200W, it may even be the X4300H in such future deals. For those who can't wait, or are prepared to keep exchanging a failed ACFL refurbished unit until they get a good one, then it is their call. It seems that there are no shortage of people reported good experience with those ACFL units too.

 

[lovinthehd]

If U like gambling buy a refurb, all is fine if the unit checks out OK..
Often returning a refurb can be an issue especially for freight costs..
Regarding overall AVR reliability Yamaha is #1 by far...

Just my $0.02...

FWIW Accessories4less will cover freight if replacing a defective unit within their terms (up to 30 days after date of purchase). Refunds are different. Good to read terms before trying http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/cms/returns/returns/1.html

I did only try the two refurb units when I decided I didn't want to risk a third bad refurb and went for a new unit for $100 more (on the 4520) so they covered shipping, and they did so even tho I was beyond the 30 day mark by a few days. A4L was good to work with.

So what does "by far" translate to in numbers on your dealer/installer tally sheet these days?

 

[Aburtch]

If U like gambling buy a refurb, all is fine if the unit checks out OK..
Often returning a refurb can be an issue especially for freight costs..
Regarding overall AVR reliability Yamaha is #1 by far...

Just my $0.02...

Not to be a buzzkill, but I bought a Yamaha RX-A1060 based on Yamaha's reputation for reliability. After returning TWO 1060's I'm now looking at purchasing a Marantz or Denon. The first 1060 would shut off after a few minutes of playing. Returned it and the second one would randomly adjust the volume to excruciatingly loud or too soft to hear. Returned it and am now back in the market for a good (not Yamaha) receiver.

Of course your mileage may vary. My previous Yamaha lasted for years and was great. Also most people who own Yamaha receivers love them.