Upgrade Advice Needed, Modern Day Equivalent of 1990 Sony TA-AX401 Integrated Amp?

[AudioGekko]

Upgrade Advice Needed, Modern Day Equivalent of 1990 Sony TA-AX401 Integrated Amp?
Hi, I wanted to get the site's expertise on what would be the modern equivalent of the 1990 Sony TA-AX401 integrated amplifier, 135 watts. At the time I had that powering a separate tuner/cd/tape deck with 270 watts Tower speakers which I still use. I really loved that sound but something broke on the amplifier and I gave it away, since then I have been using those speakers with a low budget Sony shelf system. In actuality even with this MHC-GX450 low budget stereo, by combining it with the 270 watt tower speakers (Sony SS-U501) it sounds decent but clearly a drop in quality from the AX401.

I'm trying to upgrade and keep the price below $500 or $400, I would like to combine ethernet internet radio ability so I was thinking of something like the Onkyo TX-8160 or the Pioneer X-HM76, would both of these provide similar sound quality and power to the AX401?

Or if I went in the other direction of a modern integrated amplifier, could a sub $400 be had of similar quality(seems that most I find under $400 have 60 watts or less per channel)? Could I pair that with a cheap $100 grace digital internet radio player or would I lose quality of sound by not having the internet radio integrated into the network receiver? I don't even know if internet radio sounds better with a network receiver but if so I would like the higher quality.

Final consideration is that I currently listen to my Ipod Classic by using a 3.5mm wire to red/white input of budget shelf system, hoping a new receiver could improve the sound through an internal DAC/USB connection. But the above stuff is more important.

Thanks for your time and help.

Update: After doing some research it seems that the Pioneer X-HM76's wattage specs are on the weak side. Also the Yamaha N602 is a step up from the Onkyo TX-8160, could have the power I need but I'm trying to keep the price under $600 but I do like that the Yamaha 602 has a front usb for a direct connection to the Ipod Classic.

Or if there was an integrated amp under $400 or $300 that would have sufficient power I could pair with a network cd player that has that Ipod front usb connection, I came across a $299 Yamaha CD Player (CD-S300) that accomplished this.

I'm just putting this on this site in hopes some of the experts here can further shed light on this for me, thanks again.

 

[j_garcia]

Though I have used the Onkyo stereo receivers in the past with good luck, I'd avoid them.

That one says networking and 100W. Should meet your needs.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NUVS4L8/ref=psdc_14269301_t2_B0044779G8

This one has a little less power but more features and higher quality amplification:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0044779GI/ref=psdc_14269301_t1_B00NUVS4L8

This one is higher in price, but has the features you are after also:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00I5QBPVY/ref=psdc_14269301_t1_B0044779G8

Quality amplification is harder to come by with a more "connected" device these days, but somewhat lower power should not prevent you from buying one of the less expensive ones. Unless you listen extremely loud, even a true 50W should be sufficient. If you DO listen loud, then you'll want something that is actually delivering 100 or more. Comparable to what you had, I think you'd need to spend more than what you're considering to get to that level realistically. Something like this:

http://outlawaudio.com/products/rr2150.html

Speaker wattage rating is almost irrelevant in terms of buying an amp. That is the failure level rating, not required power.

 

[AudioGekko]

Though I have used the Onkyo stereo receivers in the past with good luck, I'd avoid them.

That one says networking and 100W. Should meet your needs.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NUVS4L8/ref=psdc_14269301_t2_B0044779G8

This one has a little less power but more features and higher quality amplification:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0044779GI/ref=psdc_14269301_t1_B00NUVS4L8

This one is higher in price, but has the features you are after also:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00I5QBPVY/ref=psdc_14269301_t1_B0044779G8

Quality amplification is harder to come by with a more "connected" device these days, but somewhat lower power should not prevent you from buying one of the less expensive ones. Unless you listen extremely loud, even a true 50W should be sufficient. If you DO listen loud, then you'll want something that is actually delivering 100 or more. Comparable to what you had, I think you'd need to spend more than what you're considering to get to that level realistically. Something like this:

http://outlawaudio.com/products/rr2150.html

Speaker wattage rating is almost irrelevant in terms of buying an amp. That is the failure level rating, not required power.

Thank you very much, you made it easier to decide, one question, reading the manual on the TA-AX401

https://docs.sony.com/release/TAAX401.PDF

It reads: 135 watts per channel minimum RMS power, with no more than 0.9% distortion, 20-20,000 HZ.

But in the amplifier section it reads: 30 Hz to 30 kHz (8 ohms, 85 watts)

Does that still mean in today's terms I would need 135 watts to completely match the power or 85? I do listen loud but generally in the 20 to 30 range on the volume button, not crazy loud, I realize that is difficult to ascertain.

And thanks for pointing that caveat about Onkyo, I have read that some people have had heat problems with some of their receivers.

 

[MrBoat]

I say, save for a couple few weeks more and get the amp with the power/features you think you need, or more than. I can't realistically afford a new amp right now, but I'd be willing to go broke for a month with a long term purchase goal, making sure I got what I actually wanted.

It's much less uncomfortable than ending up with something I am not entirely happy with over the long run.

 

[j_garcia]

Harman Kardon (among others) tend to rate their amps accurately, so though it has a lower power listed, you can expect it to be honest. I'd say something like that would be enough power at 70-80W unless you intend to listen really loud and have a larger space to fill. So it looks lower, but it is realistic. You can usually say the same for Marantz, Denon, and Yamaha.

That's an older unit so it has an IHF rating which is a burst reading not a continuous one. I'd say the 85W is closer to reality than the 135, though Sony was still making decent amps back then. So realistically, an HONEST 100W is what you should be shooting for IMO. Meaning, a quality unit with around 100W RMS 20-20K, but something like the HK or Yamahas above should be more than adequate too.

I agree with Mr. Boat, since it sounds important to you, I'd save up and try to get the Outlaw or top of your budget to ensure you won't be disappointed. Outlaw lacks some features, but it will make up for it in power and sound quality.

 

[AudioGekko]

Harman Kardon (among others) tend to rate their amps accurately, so though it has a lower power listed, you can expect it to be honest. I'd say something like that would be enough power at 70-80W unless you intend to listen really loud and have a larger space to fill. So it looks lower, but it is realistic. You can usually say the same for Marantz, Denon, and Yamaha.

That's an older unit so it has an IHF rating which is a burst reading not a continuous one. I'd say the 85W is closer to reality than the 135, though Sony was still making decent amps back then. So realistically, an HONEST 100W is what you should be shooting for IMO. Meaning, a quality unit with around 100W RMS 20-20K, but something like the HK or Yamahas above should be more than adequate too.

I agree with Mr. Boat, since it sounds important to you, I'd save up and try to get the Outlaw or top of your budget to ensure you won't be disappointed. Outlaw lacks some features, but it will make up for it in power and sound quality.

Thank you, I'm leaning toward the Yamaha R-N602, I use my Ipod Classic so much that a direct connection is important (hoping for an improvement in sound from my current setup of 3.5mm to red/white analog cable into budget shelf stereo). It seems like the Pioneer SX-N30 is also a strong option, do you put any stock into their claim that they have technology that elevates the quality of internet radio?

Also for anyone that has the Yamaha 602 or other Yamaha network receiver, when playing internet radio, does the song info stop scrolling after it gets fully displayed once? I hate how some internet radios have the song information on an endless scrolling loop.

 

[AudioGekko]

I wish I could listen to some of these in the store but they are difficult to find. 80 or 100 watts might be overkill for what I listen to these days but what is confusing to a novice like me is why some receivers are in the $500/$700 range but only deliver 40 or 50 watts while these Yamaha/Onkyo types are less than $500 and deliver 80 to 100 watts.

How does one discern what ups the quality of the amplifier in a particular product, what other stats should I be focusing on?

I really like the Pioneer XC-HM86, especially the 3.5" screen but it only delivers 65 watts at 4 ohms so with my 8 ohms speakers I figure that is only 32.5 watts but if it is a higher quality receiver perhaps that will be enough? Major problem though is that it looks like an amp can't be added to this receiver.

Similar situation with the Pioneer SX-S30, 85 watts at 4 ohms, so 42.5 for my speakers.

The current shelf system I'm using is this: https://www.cnet.com/products/sony-mhc-gx450-mini-system/specs/

With its original speakers it sounded like garbage but when I hooked up the Sony SSU-501, 270 watts, it was acceptable, OK, clearly I am not an audiophile, but this budget shelf claims it outputs 125 watts, what is the reality with this product?

 

[j_garcia]

Basically, the ones who are stating 40-50W are likely being more honest than those cheaper ones claiming 100W. Pretty much cheap models will not advertise their actual power output because if they did, people wouldn't buy them. Fact.

When you look at the specs for an all in one unit or lowest models, they often only state the power, not how it was rated. That Sony lists it's power rating at 10% THD where most receivers will rate at less than 1% THD. And then you get into another one which is rating only in one band - 1kHz vs. 20-20kHz, or rating output of only one channel driven. These are all ways for them to inflate the appearance of how powerful the unit is for those who don't know how to read the specs (if they even report them). It can be difficult to compare models based on this, but look for the same spec at least, even if it is @1kHz, at least you can compare apples to apples. If it doesn't give a specific rating (20-20K or 1kHz), it is probably inflated.

 

[AudioGekko]

Basically, the ones who are stating 40-50W are likely being more honest than those cheaper ones claiming 100W. Pretty much cheap models will not advertise their actual power output because if they did, people wouldn't buy them. Fact.

When you look at the specs for an all in one unit or lowest models, they often only state the power, not how it was rated. That Sony lists it's power rating at 10% THD where most receivers will rate at less than 1% THD. And then you get into another one which is rating only in one band - 1kHz vs. 20-20kHz, or rating output of only one channel driven. These are all ways for them to inflate the appearance of how powerful the unit is for those who don't know how to read the specs (if they even report them). It can be difficult to compare models based on this, but look for the same spec at least, even if it is @1kHz, at least you can compare apples to apples. If it doesn't give a specific rating (20-20K or 1kHz), it is probably inflated.

Well I still have not purchased anything yet as the sub $500 market is pretty weak overall. I understand that most people here are into the more expensive receivers but if anyone has any experience with this integrated amplifier:

https://www.amazon.com/NAD-3020-Hybr.../dp/B00F0OMUGS

The Nad-3020 or the new Nad-3020 V2, I'm realizing that getting one of these and combining it with a seperate fm/am tuner is probably the better way to go at the price point I want to stay it.

But this is where I need to rely on the expertise here, the way NAD Electronics presents it, their 30 watts of 8ohm power will be superior to say the Pioneer SX-S30 which also has a class D amp but at 8ohms it seems to be less than 15 or even superior than the 80 watts of 8ohms power from the Pioneer SX-N30.

Because of the technology, will the Nad-3020 produce cleaner and a higher quality sound at 30 watts? Right now the 3020 is $349 and the new V2 is $399. I don't care anymore about internet streaming as I can get that from a Nvidia Shield or Roku, I will need to buy an FM/AM tuner and I don't care about surround sound.

I also like the fact that the 3020 appears to be more of a lower electrical usage receiver than some of the traditional ones under $500, I just don't need the heavy watt sound as I've been getting by with these tower speakers and the crappy Sony shelf system, I just want a bump up in quality and the most efficient receiver at my low price point.

Any help from the pros here would be appreciated, especially if you have actually listened to the NAD-3020 or others in that range, thank you.

 

[Verdinut]

[QUOTE="
I also like the fact that the 3020 appears to be more of a lower electrical usage receiver than some of the traditional ones under $500, I just don't need the heavy watt sound as I've been getting by with these tower speakers and the crappy Sony shelf system, I just want a bump up in quality and the most efficient receiver at my low price point.

Any help from the pros here would be appreciated, especially if you have actually listened to the NAD-3020 or others in that range, thank you.[/QUOTE]

In my opinion, neither the D3020 nor the D3020 V2 are very powerful but rather expensive for what they offer and the asked price.

I would suggest that you rather consider a factory refurbished Yamaha A-S501 integrated amp ($399.99). It provides a solid and clean 85 watts/ch and has a subwoofer output should you want to add one in the future: https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/hifi_components/a-s501/index.html

If you don't need an inboard DAC, the A-S500 would save you money. A4L don't have any left but will eventually receive some more from Yamaha ($349.99).

You can get the factory refurbished model from a reliable authorized online seller:
https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/yamas501bl/yamaha-a-s501-2-ch-x-85-watts-integrated-amplifier-w/built-in-dac-black/1.html

For a tuner ($189.99): https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/yamts500bl/yamaha-t-s500-am/fm-stereo-tuner/1.html

That would be a very decent combo at a reasonable cost. Another plus is that you can control the tuner with the remote control supplied with either the A-S500 or the A-S501. Trust me. You will not be able to get a competitive stereo receiver with the same sound quality for the same outlay. It's amplifier section does not compare.

 

[sholling]

Upgrade Advice Needed, Modern Day Equivalent of 1990 Sony TA-AX401 Integrated Amp?

A refurbished AVR should give you everything that you are asking for with a lot of future proofing as well. The last refurbished AVR that I bought from A4L is still working 10 years later. Of the two that I've linked I prefer the slightly more expensive Denon.

https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/onktxrz810/onkyo-tx-rz810-7.2-ch-x-130-watts-thx-networking-a/v-receiver/1.html

https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/denavrx3400h/denon-avr-x3400h-7.2-ch-x-105-watts-networking-a/v-receiver-w/heos/1.html

 

[KenM10759]

I recently picked up a new NAD D3020 for $350, for my office system. It's driving a pair of KEF R100's via analog from my computer, and the amp does have a subwoofer output to which I've connected a new KEF Kube 10b subwoofer.

I've set the crossover on the sub set to 90hz. This sounds simply incredible! It goes way louder than I'll ever listen, despite speakers that are a bit power-hungry with an 87dB or so sensitivity.

The advantage here is a cool running, compact amp which is very power efficient. I don't listen to FM, but if I want to listen to it, just about any station in the world today can be streamed via the Internet.

No regrets.

 

[sterling shoote]

Upgrade Advice Needed, Modern Day Equivalent of 1990 Sony TA-AX401 Integrated Amp?
Hi, I wanted to get the site's expertise on what would be the modern equivalent of the 1990 Sony TA-AX401 integrated amplifier, 135 watts. At the time I had that powering a separate tuner/cd/tape deck with 270 watts Tower speakers which I still use. I really loved that sound but something broke on the amplifier and I gave it away, since then I have been using those speakers with a low budget Sony shelf system. In actuality even with this MHC-GX450 low budget stereo, by combining it with the 270 watt tower speakers (Sony SS-U501) it sounds decent but clearly a drop in quality from the AX401.

I'm trying to upgrade and keep the price below $500 or $400, I would like to combine ethernet internet radio ability so I was thinking of something like the Onkyo TX-8160 or the Pioneer X-HM76, would both of these provide similar sound quality and power to the AX401?

Or if I went in the other direction of a modern integrated amplifier, could a sub $400 be had of similar quality(seems that most I find under $400 have 60 watts or less per channel)? Could I pair that with a cheap $100 grace digital internet radio player or would I lose quality of sound by not having the internet radio integrated into the network receiver? I don't even know if internet radio sounds better with a network receiver but if so I would like the higher quality.

Final consideration is that I currently listen to my Ipod Classic by using a 3.5mm wire to red/white input of budget shelf system, hoping a new receiver could improve the sound through an internal DAC/USB connection. But the above stuff is more important.

Thanks for your time and help.

Update: After doing some research it seems that the Pioneer X-HM76's wattage specs are on the weak side. Also the Yamaha N602 is a step up from the Onkyo TX-8160, could have the power I need but I'm trying to keep the price under $600 but I do like that the Yamaha 602 has a front usb for a direct connection to the Ipod Classic.

Or if there was an integrated amp under $400 or $300 that would have sufficient power I could pair with a network cd player that has that Ipod front usb connection, I came across a $299 Yamaha CD Player (CD-S300) that accomplished this.

I'm just putting this on this site in hopes some of the experts here can further shed light on this for me, thanks again.

Shop for used. You can get a Sony TA-E9000es preamp and TA-N9000es power amp today in mint condition for about $600. That is for equipment in 2000 that cost about $3200. In today's dollars that would be about $6000. Add a Creative Sound Blaster X-FI HD external sound card/ usb DAC/usb to S/PDIF converter and you'll be able to enjoy any media player you've got on your computer at a 24/96 conversion rate from the TA-E9000es preamp. Want Airplay? Just add an Airport Express. BTW, these units were the last of the ES Series Separates. They are IMHO built so much better than anything out there today that is reasonably priced. Look on Ebay.

 

[KenM10759]

Some folks prefer new so they can have a warranty. I buy SOME used items, but prefer demo stock, factory refurbished (b-stock) or new. There's advantages to having current technology, service and parts availability.

 

[sholling]

Well I still have not purchased anything yet as the sub $500 market is pretty weak overall. I understand that most people here are into the more expensive receivers but if anyone has any experience with this integrated amplifier:

https://www.amazon.com/NAD-3020-Hybr.../dp/B00F0OMUGS

If I were looking for an amp for full range up close desktop speakers then the NAD would be high on my list, so would Emotiva's A-100 stereo integrated amp. However you wanted 130+ watts per channel and neither comes close to your requirements. Insufficient clean power can lead to damaged tweeters. The other downside is that neither provides a subwoofer-out jack which is something that you may eventually want.

My advice is to spend a bit of time before you spend money and think through your long term goals. Also keep in mind that speakers have gotten a whole lot better since the 1990s and you may want to leave yourself an upgrade path.

 

[AudioGekko]

If I were looking for an amp for full range up close desktop speakers then the NAD would be high on my list, so would Emotiva's A-100 stereo integrated amp. However you wanted 130+ watts per channel and neither comes close to your requirements. Insufficient clean power can lead to damaged tweeters. The other downside is that neither provides a subwoofer-out jack which is something that you may eventually want.

My advice is to spend a bit of time before you spend money and think through your long term goals. Also keep in mind that speakers have gotten a whole lot better since the 1990s and you may want to leave yourself an upgrade path.

I appreciate all of the responses, since my original post I have wavered about whether I need all of those watts. I wish I could determine the actual watts of my current cheap MHC-GX450, once I discarded the garbage bookshelf speakers it came with and hooked it up to my Sony tower speakers, the sound was night and day better, made me realize that the speakers were the most important thing, I won't give these up until they are dead.

"Insufficient clean power....", this confuses me, if your speakers can handle 270 watts, how can a lower powered receiver damage them?

Anyway, the manual lists the shelf gx450 as : With 6 ohm loads, both channels driven, from 120 – 10,000 Hz: rated 125 watts per channel minimum RMS power, with no more than 10% total harmonic distortion from 250 milliwatts to rated output.


Front speaker
Continuous RMS power output (reference):
125 + 125 watts (6
1 kHz, 10% THD) Total harmonic distortion less than 0.07% (6
1 kHz, 60 W)

So what are the real numbers for 8ohms, 50 to 60 watts?

I ask because this cheap shelf system is delivering enough power and loudness, I'm just looking to upgrade to a higher quality sound if possible but as I research things I'm less keen on the NAD D 3020 because some of the reviews complain about the shoddy control buttons and I don't like the fact it does not have a volume digital read out.

Also electrial usage is a factor, I don't want the receiver consuming over 50 watts when it is sitting at idle or volume 10 while watching tv as this receiver has to stay on for most of the day.

Right now I'm thinking more the Pioneer SX-S30 or the Pioneer VSX-S520 or step up and spend $550 for the Marantz NR1508, if anyone has any of these receivers your insights would be helpful.

As I wrote before, I'm definitely not an audiophile but that is not to say I don't respect people who are and that is why I am asking this board for advice but I realize that these receivers and options are way lower in price and quality than the ones you usually listen to, I just want to gain some insights in order to get the most quality in the most efficient manner possible.

And I won't bother with used as knowing my luck it will turn out to be a lemon.

 

[KenM10759]

I appreciate all of the responses, since my original post I have wavered about whether I need all of those watts. I wish I could determine the actual watts of my current cheap MHC-GX450, once I discarded the garbage bookshelf speakers it came with and hooked it up to my Sony tower speakers, the sound was night and day better, made me realize that the speakers were the most important thing, I won't give these up until they are dead.

"Insufficient clean power....", this confuses me, if your speakers can handle 270 watts, how can a lower powered receiver damage them?

Anyway, the manual lists the shelf gx450 as : With 6 ohm loads, both channels driven, from 120 – 10,000 Hz: rated 125 watts per channel minimum RMS power, with no more than 10% total harmonic distortion from 250 milliwatts to rated output.


Front speaker
Continuous RMS power output (reference):
125 + 125 watts (6
1 kHz, 10% THD) Total harmonic distortion less than 0.07% (6
1 kHz, 60 W)

So what are the real numbers for 8ohms, 50 to 60 watts?

I ask because this cheap shelf system is delivering enough power and loudness, I'm just looking to upgrade to a higher quality sound if possible but as I research things I'm less keen on the NAD D 3020 because some of the reviews complain about the shoddy control buttons and I don't like the fact it does not have a volume digital read out.

Also electrial usage is a factor, I don't want the receiver consuming over 50 watts when it is sitting at idle or volume 10 while watching tv as this receiver has to stay on for most of the day.

Right now I'm thinking more the Pioneer SX-S30 or the Pioneer VSX-S520 or step up and spend $550 for the Marantz NR1508, if anyone has any of these receivers your insights would be helpful.

As I wrote before, I'm definitely not an audiophile but that is not to say I don't respect people who are and that is why I am asking this board for advice but I realize that these receivers and options are way lower in price and quality than the ones you usually listen to, I just want to gain some insights in order to get the most quality in the most efficient manner possible.

And I won't bother with used as knowing my luck it will turn out to be a lemon.

RE: NAD D3020

Shoddy control buttons? I have none of those. It came with a remote but I use the touch button on top to select source, the other touch button for on/off, the big knob for volume and it absolutely DOES have a volume display!

 

[sholling]

"Insufficient clean power....", this confuses me, if your speakers can handle 270 watts, how can a lower powered receiver damage them?

It's called "clipping" and can damage your speakers' tweeters.

 

[AudioGekko]

It's called "clipping" and can damage your speakers' tweeters.

So what is the ratio, how do you figure out which receivers are safe for your set of speakers?

 

[KenM10759]

My KEF R100's are an 86dB (2.83v@1m) sensitivity rating, capable of 107dB max output, and suggested 25 to 100 watt amp. I listen to them with the D3020 amp at levels ranging from a whisper to "OMG" and they've not suffered any damage that I can detect.