Shared LR speakers (8 & 6 Ohms) wiring in parallel, risk and rewards?

[incidentflux]

Hello,

What are the risks and rewards of wiring GoldenEar Triton Three (Gen 1) towers (8 Ohms) with 6 Ohm Speakers (Aiwa SX-N999) to the Left and Right (shared on binding posts) of any amplifier.

Ideally I want to route LR signals twice one pair to GoldenEar Tritons, another to the Aiwa's. But the AVR software doesn't allow that, so I ended up using Aiwa SX-N999 as LR front presence speakers (on 1 foot stands). Which seems limiting and is DSP dependent. I rather have known LR sounds replicated twice.

I do this, because it creates a wall of sound with all speakers playing at the same time. This also allows me flexibility to sit on the floor or higher on a seat and sound envelope stays immersive.

Will parallel wiring damage either Triton Towers or Aiwa monitors?
Or damage the Yamaha RX-A840 AVR.

Is there a better way to achieve this? With wiring or with additional equipment?

I know this is an unusual setup, but it fills the room.

Hifi Setup
Yamaha RX-A840
GoldenEar Triton Three (Front LR)
Aiwa SX-N999 (Front LR Presence)
GoldenEar SuperSat 50C (Center)

 

[TLS Guy]

Hello,

What are the risks and rewards of wiring GoldenEar Triton Three (Gen 1) towers (8 Ohms) with 6 Ohm Speakers (Aiwa SX-N999) to the Left and Right (shared on binding posts) of any amplifier.

Ideally I want to route LR signals twice one pair to GoldenEar Tritons, another to the Aiwa's. But the AVR software doesn't allow that, so I ended up using Aiwa SX-N999 as LR front presence speakers (on 1 foot stands). Which seems limiting and is DSP dependent. I rather have known LR sounds replicated twice.

I do this, because it creates a wall of sound with all speakers playing at the same time. This also allows me flexibility to sit on the floor or higher on a seat and sound envelope stays immersive.

Will parallel wiring damage either Triton Towers or Aiwa monitors?
Or damage the Yamaha RX-A840 AVR.

Is there a better way to achieve this? With wiring or with additional equipment?

I know this is an unusual setup, but it fills the room.

Hifi Setup
Yamaha RX-A840
GoldenEar Triton Three (Front LR)
Aiwa SX-N999 (Front LR Presence)
GoldenEar SuperSat 50C (Center)

That will be too low an impedance and blow up your receiver. In addition the lower impdance speaker will receive more of the power.

That is a really horrible idea, and the sound will be awful. That would be the "Red Neck" system of the month.

 

[slipperybidness]

Hello,

What are the risks and rewards of wiring GoldenEar Triton Three (Gen 1) towers (8 Ohms) with 6 Ohm Speakers (Aiwa SX-N999) to the Left and Right (shared on binding posts) of any amplifier.

Ideally I want to route LR signals twice one pair to GoldenEar Tritons, another to the Aiwa's. But the AVR software doesn't allow that, so I ended up using Aiwa SX-N999 as LR front presence speakers (on 1 foot stands). Which seems limiting and is DSP dependent. I rather have known LR sounds replicated twice.

I do this, because it creates a wall of sound with all speakers playing at the same time. This also allows me flexibility to sit on the floor or higher on a seat and sound envelope stays immersive.

Will parallel wiring damage either Triton Towers or Aiwa monitors?
Or damage the Yamaha RX-A840 AVR.

Is there a better way to achieve this? With wiring or with additional equipment?

I know this is an unusual setup, but it fills the room.

Hifi Setup
Yamaha RX-A840
GoldenEar Triton Three (Front LR)
Aiwa SX-N999 (Front LR Presence)
GoldenEar SuperSat 50C (Center)

I agree with TLS--you have come up with a bad idea for many technical reasons!

Furthermore, you don't want to pollute the excellent GE speakers with crap Aiwa speakers!

If you want all speakers driven, then look for some "7 channel stereo" or "all speaker stereo" or "party mode" setting, or whatever Yamaha calls it (my Pio calls it 7 channel stereo). In other words, your BEST option to do what you want to do is to indeed use the DSP settings on the AVR.

Now, whether or not your goal is a good idea, that is a different question.

And, why front presence speakers, but no surrounds????

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

Ideally I want to route LR signals twice one pair to GoldenEar Tritons, another to the Aiwa's. But the AVR software doesn't allow that, so I ended up using Aiwa SX-N999 as LR front presence speakers (on 1 foot stands). Which seems limiting and is DSP dependent. I rather have known LR sounds replicated twice.

The front “Presence” speakers can be a benefit and will make the DSP modes sound better. However, you should upgrade to a Yamaha receiver that actually has connections and processing for the front “Presence” speakers. They will work best that way.
If you really want to use the Aiwa speakers so that you can sit on the floor, then you’ll need to get an outboard amplifier for them.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[panteragstk]

You're pretty much trying to do this:

 

[incidentflux]

I understand it completely goes against the purist ways. My seating options don't allow for all positions.
Plus I like the way it sounds, I'm fine with it.
If some you guys can't contribute, There is no point commenting.

 

[incidentflux]

The front “Presence” speakers can be a benefit and will make the DSP modes sound better. However, you should upgrade to a Yamaha receiver that actually has connections and processing for the front “Presence” speakers. They will work best that way.
If you really want to use the Aiwa speakers so that you can sit on the floor, then you’ll need to get an outboard amplifier for them.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

You're right the front presence do work well most of the times, but sometimes, if the source is sending two channels then the Yamaha AVR locks to 2 channel and doesn't allow me to switch to upmixing 7 channel mode. That's with the Netflix Windows 10 app over HDMI. Since I have set Windows 10 audio to 5.1 and it passes through correct number channels.
I thought about an outboard amplifier. Thought of getting an external Emotiva stereo amp.

 

[incidentflux]

I agree with TLS--you have come up with a bad idea for many technical reasons!

Furthermore, you don't want to pollute the excellent GE speakers with crap Aiwa speakers!

If you want all speakers driven, then look for some "7 channel stereo" or "all speaker stereo" or "party mode" setting, or whatever Yamaha calls it (my Pio calls it 7 channel stereo). In other words, your BEST option to do what you want to do is to indeed use the DSP settings on the AVR.

Now, whether or not your goal is a good idea, that is a different question.

And, why front presence speakers, but no surrounds????

Actually these three way 90s Aiwa speakers still sound great. Since I can compare with my GoldenEar towers and my Tannnoy 502 desktop studio monitors.

I had a 7.1 surround setup for a few years and its not for me. If I knew about any front array speakers I would have gone for those. Similar to concert venues. Perhaps I should have bought a small horizontal array from Pro audio guys.

The only TWO speakers I personally heard that can do immersive audio with just two towers are the rightly expensive and honorable MBLs.

 

[slipperybidness]

Actually these three way 90s Aiwa speakers still sound great. Since I can compare with my GoldenEar towers and my Tannnoy 502 desktop studio monitors.

I had a 7.1 surround setup for a few years and its not for me. If I knew about any front array speakers I would have gone for those. Similar to concert venues. Perhaps I should have bought a small horizontal array from Pro audio guys.

The only TWO speakers I personally heard that can do immersive audio with just two towers are the rightly expensive and honorable MBLs.

Perhaps you should be looking at one of the CBT kits from PE.

Dunno if they ship to your country, dunno of you have any DIY experience.

http://www.parts-express.com/Search.aspx?keyword=Cbt&sitesearch=true

 

[Bucknekked]

I understand it completely goes against the purist ways. My seating options don't allow for all positions.
Plus I like the way it sounds, I'm fine with it.
If some you guys can't contribute, There is no point commenting.

incidentflux
The way a forum usually works best is when an original poster (OP) (and that's you in this case) comes in to the forum and briefly says hello, and then asks a question or two. Most OP's are looking for some advice or an answer to a question. Conversation often happens after the question. Depending on the OPs response, the conversation can be quite enjoyable, or it can turn sour.

In your case, you asked what were the risks or potential problems with connecting your speakers as you described. I think the responses fairly described the risks: you could damage your equipment. As near as I can tell by reading the entire thread, no purists joined in with a purist point of view.

If you enjoy the sound, and you're going to connect your speakers and listen to them anyway no matter what the advice you receive may say, then I think you aren't looking for advice at all. I think you're looking for validation, which you aren't going to get because from a technical point of view, your solution is not a good idea. You can do it if you wish. You can enjoy it if it pleases you. Nothing wrong with that.

In fact, there's nothing wrong at all with what you are trying to do if it makes you happy and sounds good to you. Just don't come to an audio forum and tell folks if they don't agree with you not to comment.

 

[j_garcia]

Immersive sound from two speakers comes from proper setup. That can be achieved with many speakers, not just expensive ones. The "sweet spot" for that sound is often not a large place, so getting the same experience from two very different seating positions with one setup is not so likely. What you propose will not result in a better experience, which you have already confirmed by asking this question.

You have to also realize that when you ask a question that you don't fully understand, you may get answers that you don't like.

 

[vsound5150]

Hello,

What are the risks and rewards of wiring GoldenEar Triton Three (Gen 1) towers (8 Ohms) with 6 Ohm Speakers (Aiwa SX-N999) to the Left and Right (shared on binding posts) of any amplifier.

Ideally I want to route LR signals twice one pair to GoldenEar Tritons, another to the Aiwa's. But the AVR software doesn't allow that, so I ended up using Aiwa SX-N999 as LR front presence speakers (on 1 foot stands). Which seems limiting and is DSP dependent. I rather have known LR sounds replicated twice.

I do this, because it creates a wall of sound with all speakers playing at the same time. This also allows me flexibility to sit on the floor or higher on a seat and sound envelope stays immersive.

Will parallel wiring damage either Triton Towers or Aiwa monitors?
Or damage the Yamaha RX-A840 AVR.

Is there a better way to achieve this? With wiring or with additional equipment?

I know this is an unusual setup, but it fills the room.

Hifi Setup
Yamaha RX-A840
GoldenEar Triton Three (Front LR)
Aiwa SX-N999 (Front LR Presence)
GoldenEar SuperSat 50C (Center)

My guess is the combined 6 and 8 ohms in parallel will lower total impedance to around 3 ohms and smoke the Aiwa's first as more current will be going through them. Voltage will remain constant across the load but current is what kills. If you're going to try it keep the volume whisper quiet and slowly turn it up smelling for anything burning....if it fry's don't tell the warranty police what you did.

Risks = blown speakers and/or amp
Rewards = get to have new equipment and we all learn something

 

[PENG]

My guess is the combined 6 and 8 ohms in parallel will lower total impedance to around 3 ohms and smoke the Aiwa's first as more current will be going through them. Voltage will remain constant across the load but current is what kills. If you're going to try it keep the volume whisper quiet and slowly turn it up smelling for anything burning....if it fry's don't tell the warranty police what you did.

Risks = blown speakers and/or amp
Rewards = get to have new equipment and we all learn something

Just fyi, the combined impedance is 6X8/(6+8)=3.43 ohms as seen by the Yamaha, that does not mean the Aiwa will suddenly take more current.

Again, the amp will see the equivalent load impedance drops to 3.43 ohm but the current flow to the 6 ohms speaker will be the same as before, that is still V/6.

Likewise the current flow to the 8 ohm speaker will still be V/8, whatever the value of V is. In other words, neither speakers will have to take more current. If anything, they may end up taking slightly lower current at the same volume setting, if the higher combined current causes the Yamaha's rail voltage to drop slightly.

In the end it is the amp that has to deliver more current. If it can handle the increased current, that is more than 2X, then nothing blows up. if it gets to the point where it start clipping badly, then both speaker's tweeters may be at risk. Knowing Yamaha's practice though, it's relatively aggressive protective circuit would probably kick in soon enough to shut itself down before it blows up in smoke.

 

[vsound5150]

Just fyi, the combined impedance is 6X8/(6+8)=3.43 ohms as seen by the Yamaha, that does not mean the Aiwa will suddenly take more current.

Again, the amp will see the equivalent load impedance drops to 3.43 ohm but the current flow to the 6 ohms speaker will be the same as before, that is still V/6.

Likewise the current flow to the 8 ohm speaker will still be V/8, whatever the value of V is. In other words, neither speakers will have to take more current. If anything, they may end up taking slightly lower current at the same volume setting, if the higher combined current causes the Yamaha's rail voltage to drop slightly.

In the end it is the amp that has to deliver more current. If it can handle the increased current, that is more than 2X, then nothing blows up. if it gets to the point where it start clipping badly, then both speaker's tweeters may be at risk. Knowing Yamaha's practice though, it's relatively aggressive protective circuit would probably kick in soon enough to shut itself down before it blows up in smoke.

Maybe. Was always curious about what OP has in mind hoping OP will put it to the test...sitting here with popcorn.

 

[PENG]

Maybe. Was always curious about what OP has in mind hoping OP will put it to the test...sitting here with popcorn.

I agree, it is a "maybe". Protective circuits are not fool proof.

 

[incidentflux]

incidentflux
The way a forum usually works best is when an original poster (OP) (and that's you in this case) comes in to the forum and briefly says hello, and then asks a question or two. Most OP's are looking for some advice or an answer to a question. Conversation often happens after the question. Depending on the OPs response, the conversation can be quite enjoyable, or it can turn sour.

In your case, you asked what were the risks or potential problems with connecting your speakers as you described. I think the responses fairly described the risks: you could damage your equipment. As near as I can tell by reading the entire thread, no purists joined in with a purist point of view.

If you enjoy the sound, and you're going to connect your speakers and listen to them anyway no matter what the advice you receive may say, then I think you aren't looking for advice at all. I think you're looking for validation, which you aren't going to get because from a technical point of view, your solution is not a good idea. You can do it if you wish. You can enjoy it if it pleases you. Nothing wrong with that.

In fact, there's nothing wrong at all with what you are trying to do if it makes you happy and sounds good to you. Just don't come to an audio forum and tell folks if they don't agree with you not to comment.

I'm not looking for validation, just technically qualified answers about technical pros and cons. Aiming not to damage my gear. Replying with "its a bad idea", without qualifying it with evidence, is not productive.

Immersive sound from two speakers comes from proper setup. That can be achieved with many speakers, not just expensive ones. The "sweet spot" for that sound is often not a large place, so getting the same experience from two very different seating positions with one setup is not so likely. What you propose will not result in a better experience, which you have already confirmed by asking this question.

You have to also realize that when you ask a question that you don't fully understand, you may get answers that you don't like.

Thank you for a thoughtful reply. Aim is to fill the room, sound balance is secondary, I'm not sensitive to tambre matching or its not noticeably evident in this case, at least to my less Golden ears.

Just fyi, the combined impedance is 6X8/(6+8)=3.43 ohms as seen by the Yamaha, that does not mean the Aiwa will suddenly take more current.

Again, the amp will see the equivalent load impedance drops to 3.43 ohm but the current flow to the 6 ohms speaker will be the same as before, that is still V/6.

Likewise the current flow to the 8 ohm speaker will still be V/8, whatever the value of V is. In other words, neither speakers will have to take more current. If anything, they may end up taking slightly lower current at the same volume setting, if the higher combined current causes the Yamaha's rail voltage to drop slightly.

In the end it is the amp that has to deliver more current. If it can handle the increased current, that is more than 2X, then nothing blows up. if it gets to the point where it start clipping badly, then both speaker's tweeters may be at risk. Knowing Yamaha's practice though, it's relatively aggressive protective circuit would probably kick in soon enough to shut itself down before it blows up in smoke.

Thanks for a technical reply. Wiring in series seems feasible, I'll check with Yamaha about electrical loads and any amp protections that might trigger. Although I doubt Yamaha customer service will officially comment on this.

littlefoott over at AVS Forums, shared this.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/2774193-shared-lr-speakers-8-6-ohms-wiring-parallel-risk-rewards.html

Speakers in Parallel Calculator
https://geoffthegreygeek.com/how-to-wire-four-hifi-speakers/
https://geoffthegreygeek.com/calculator-speakers-in-parallel/

 

[panteragstk]

I understand it completely goes against the purist ways. My seating options don't allow for all positions.
Plus I like the way it sounds, I'm fine with it.
If some you guys can't contribute, There is no point commenting.

Look, it isn't that we are telling you not to do it because it goes against what we think (it does), but rather that you aren't increasing your soundstage by doing this. Placing you high quality speakers further apart should get you the same results. Wider soundstage. If you really want to use width speakers, why not get a cheap DSX capable receiver? This will get you exactly what you want without you needing to do anything screwy.

If you are dead set on wiring them together get a speaker switch that will impedance match, then you should be OK, but since the speakers are different, you may get a pair that is louder than another.

Funny thing, I still have a pair of those Aiwa speakers in my garage.

 

[incidentflux]

Look, it isn't that we are telling you not to do it because it goes against what we think (it does), but rather that you aren't increasing your soundstage by doing this. Placing you high quality speakers further apart should get you the same results. Wider soundstage. If you really want to use width speakers, why not get a cheap DSX capable receiver? This will get you exactly what you want without you needing to do anything screwy.

If you are dead set on wiring them together get a speaker switch that will impedance match, then you should be OK, but since the speakers are different, you may get a pair that is louder than another.

Funny thing, I still have a pair of those Aiwa speakers in my garage.

I was also thinking of running a parallel system with Aiwa's for the floor seating position, with a higher quality 3 three channel amp (three monoblocks stacked?) or two channel amp, since I just require Left, Right, Center. Leave the towers connected to the Yamaha.

Need to figure out source switching for that, in that case.

PS: Would be curious to know your thoughts about your Aiwa's (same model?) can you hook them up and see if they still sound good or am I stuck in the past

 

[Pogre]

I'm not looking for validation, just technically qualified answers about technical pros and cons. Aiming not to damage my gear. Replying with "its a bad idea", without qualifying it with evidence, is not productive.




Thank you for a thoughtful reply. Aim is to fill the room, sound balance is secondary, I'm not sensitive to tambre matching or its not noticeably evident in this case, at least to my less Golden ears.



Thanks for a technical reply. Wiring in series seems feasible, I'll check with Yamaha about electrical loads and any amp protections that might trigger. Although I doubt Yamaha customer service will officially comment on this.

littlefoott over at AVS Forums, shared this.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/2774193-shared-lr-speakers-8-6-ohms-wiring-parallel-risk-rewards.html

Speakers in Parallel Calculator
https://geoffthegreygeek.com/how-to-wire-four-hifi-speakers/
https://geoffthegreygeek.com/calculator-speakers-in-parallel/

It looks like you got a couple of replies in that thread stating that it's a bad idea too. How big is your room? have you tried 5 channel or 7 channel stereo? If you have that, I think you can achieve your goal without having to parallel wire.

What you're proposing is going to present a tough load for your receiver. I'm too cautious to try something like that myself. FWIW I have a pretty large room and my bookshelf speakers with a pair of subs fills it easily. It's more in how you position your speakers, not adding more to the front stage.

 

[panteragstk]

I was also thinking of running a parallel system with Aiwa's for the floor seating position, with a higher quality 3 three channel amp (three monoblocks stacked?) or two channel amp, since I just require Left, Right, Center. Leave the towers connected to the Yamaha.

Need to figure out source switching for that, in that case.

PS: Would be curious to know your thoughts about your Aiwa's (same model?) can you hook them up and see if they still sound good or am I stuck in the past

I haven't heard them in a bit, but from what I remember they were pretty bass heavy and had terrible off axis response. Tweeters weren't very good being the main reason. There's probably a reason that Aiwa isn't making speakers any longer (AFAIK).