Need some advice on floorstanding speakers.

[Hayden Lloyd]

So I have Peachtree grand integrated x-1 integrated amplifier, Polk LSi25 towers, and I'm using my roommate's pinnacle baby boomer to help tighten of the bass of the sub par subwoofers built into the towers. I want of upgrade my towers to something better. I bought them because I got a good deal and the matched the rest of my HT setup, but since then I have lost interest in HT audio and now only care about music. My amp makes 400 wpc 8 ohm and 770 wpc 4 ohm. I need some recommendations on which floor standing speakers to check out. I've be thinking about Salk audio or maybe something else internet direct. I'm willing to spend about $1000 used, which means most speakers under $5000 new msrp will be accessible to me. I mostly listen to progressive music. I want speakers that will sound great with all music in the progressive spectrum. I listen to everything from king crimson, rush, caravan, liquid tension experiment, and yes to opeth, edge of sanity, death, and gojira just to name some popular bands you might be familiar with. They need to have Mids that don't sound crowded, and tight punchy bass that hits below 30 or be paired with a sub. Obviously they need to be great speakers overall as well. Any suggestions?

 

[slipperybidness]

So I have Peachtree grand integrated x-1 integrated amplifier, Polk LSi25 towers, and I'm using my roommate's pinnacle baby boomer to help tighten of the bass of the sub par subwoofers built into the towers. I want of upgrade my towers to something better. I bought them because I got a good deal and the matched the rest of my HT setup, but since then I have lost interest in HT audio and now only care about music. My amp makes 400 wpc 8 ohm and 770 wpc 4 ohm. I need some recommendations on which floor standing speakers to check out. I've be thinking about Salk audio or maybe something else internet direct. I'm willing to spend about $1000 used, which means most speakers under $5000 new msrp will be accessible to me. I mostly listen to progressive music. I want speakers that will sound great with all music in the progressive spectrum. I listen to everything from king crimson, rush, caravan, liquid tension experiment, and yes to opeth, edge of sanity, death, and gojira just to name some popular bands you might be familiar with. They need to have Mids that don't sound crowded, and tight punchy bass that hits below 30 or be paired with a sub. Obviously they need to be great speakers overall as well. Any suggestions?

You can't go wrong with Salk! But, can you find Salk on the used market that will meet your budget?

Also, check out Philharmonic Audio. Dennis has done a lot of work on various Salk speakers, and many other speakers and DIY designs etc.

Ascend Acoustics would also be near the top of the list.

 

[Hayden Lloyd]

You can't go wrong with Salk! But, can you find Salk on the used market that will meet your budget?

Also, check out Philharmonic Audio. Dennis has done a lot of work on various Salk speakers, and many other speakers and DIY designs etc.

Ascend Acoustics would also be near the top of the list.

A bud fried tower with 2k worth of modifications just sold for 1200. That is simular to a songtower before mods. Do you have any advice for building my own towers? I'm a big diy guy. I have a mechanical engineering background. That could be the best route for me.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I agree with slip, finding used any Salk is a challenge, finding one matches your budget is pretty much same as search for unicorn.
If you can do DIY these are probably your best bet - Dennis Murphy had his hand in designing most of of Salk speakers.
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/new-diy-mtm-towers-designed-by-dennis-murphy-and-paul-kittinger.68531/

 

[slipperybidness]

A bud fried tower with 2k worth of modifications just sold for 1200. That is simular to a songtower before mods. Do you have any advice for building my own towers? I'm a big diy guy. I have a mechanical engineering background. That could be the best route for me.

I agree with Bored--I would love to build me a pair of those ER18!!!!

However, if you want a little less work, in particular if you don't have the tools or the desire to work with mdf, then this is the kit that I would be looking at. Personally, I REALLY want to build these, and they fall right at your budget of $1k for the pair:
https://www.parts-express.com/solstice-mltl-reference-tower-speaker-kit--300-708

 

[Hayden Lloyd]

Do any of you know what sort of tolerances I will need to work within to get the sound quality I'm looking for? I'm trying to get my hands on something serious. My amp/preamp/dac is 4.5k msrp. Do you think a diy build could unlock its full potential? I'd love to build something myself, but I'm worried that it might not sound any better than anything I could buy for the same price and would have much less of a resale value. I have not experience building speakers. Does anyone know what sort of quality I cam expect if I build them correctly?

 

[Swerd]

Do any of you know what sort of tolerances I will need to work within to get the sound quality I'm looking for? I'm trying to get my hands on something serious. My amp/preamp/dac is 4.5k msrp. Do you think a diy build could unlock its full potential? I'd love to build something myself, but I'm worried that it might not sound any better than anything I could buy for the same price and would have much less of a resale value. I have not experience building speakers. Does anyone know what sort of quality I cam expect if I build them correctly?

The DIY ER18 MTM speaker will deliver sound quality somewhere between the Salk SongTower and the Salk Veracity HT2-TL. I've owned Salk SongTowers for years, and more recently Salk Veracity ST speakers. I heard the prototypes for both the ribbon tweet and dome tweet versions of the ER18 MTM when they were developed and I think they belong among the best floor standing speakers I've known.

There are two versions of the ER18 MTM, one with a ribbon tweeter, and at a somewhat lower price, one with a dome tweeter.

Kit versions are sold by Meniscus Audio
http://meniscusaudio.com/er18mtm-ribbon-pair-p-1323.html
http://meniscusaudio.com/er18mtm-dome-pair-p-1322.html

If you want a pdf version of the write up for this DIY design, respond to the private message I sent with an email address.

 

[Swerd]

Further thoughts…

That amplifier of yours is some serious big iron. It should easily drive any of the speakers mentioned.

If you are located within easy drive of the Washington DC, Maryland, Virginia area, you should come hear what I now have. Dennis Murphy, the designer, is only about 15 miles away. I'm not sure what he now has in house, but a visit to him should convince you that his designs are the real thing and may very well be what you're looking for.

 

[lovinthehd]

Do any of you know what sort of tolerances I will need to work within to get the sound quality I'm looking for? I'm trying to get my hands on something serious. My amp/preamp/dac is 4.5k msrp. Do you think a diy build could unlock its full potential? I'd love to build something myself, but I'm worried that it might not sound any better than anything I could buy for the same price and would have much less of a resale value. I have not experience building speakers. Does anyone know what sort of quality I cam expect if I build them correctly?

FWIW just a comment....the speakers are where the potential is, not the amp. Your amp does have sufficient power for most speakers, though. If you want to "use" more of the amp then get less sensitive speakers

You might also check out some of the offerings at diysoundgroup.com.

Finding used Salk/Philharmonic/Ascend speakers can take a while, many don't let them go....

 

[TLS Guy]

You sound like someone who should be building his own speakers and learning to design them as well.

You do need carpentry skills. The enclosure must be well sealed except at ports, and must not ring like a barrel.

There are lots of programs to help you design the enclosure.

The tough part is driver selection and the crossover. Here you will need some education. Again there are programs to assist you.

There are huge advantages to DIY. These days it is hard to audition many speakers. If you don't like it, it is a problem. With DIY if you have a total disaster you can just scrap it. Usually it is a crossover problem and as long as you have made sensible driver selections you can modify crossover until the cows come home. We now have measuring tools available to all, and not have to develop a highly trained eat to tweak your crossovers as in times past. A really good ear still helps though.

Do not make your first design a three way. They require quite a bit of experience under your belt.

I just thank my lucky stars every day, that I never have to go shopping for speakers! What a dreadful chore that must be.

 

[Hayden Lloyd]

Further thoughts…

That amplifier of yours is some serious big iron. It should easily drive any of the speakers mentioned.

If you are located within easy drive of the Washington DC, Maryland, Virginia area, you should come hear what I now have. Dennis Murphy, the designer, is only about 15 miles away. I'm not sure what he now has in house, but a visit to him should convince you that his designs are the real thing and may very well be what you're looking for.

I active in Delaware, it would be only about an hour drive

 

[Hayden Lloyd]

FWIW just a comment....the speakers are where the potential is, not the amp. Your amp does have sufficient power for most speakers, though. If you want to "use" more of the amp then get less sensitive speakers

You might also check out some of the offerings at diysoundgroup.com.

Finding used Salk/Philharmonic/Ascend speakers can take a while, many don't let them go....

Thanks for that mention. I was looking into the idea of something with larger unpowered woofers to achieve better bass extension. I guess a better way to word what I said would have been to say I want to take advantage of my amps capabilities

 

[Hayden Lloyd]

You sound like someone who should be building his own speakers and learning to design them as well.

You do need carpentry skills. The enclosure must be well sealed except at ports, and must not ring like a barrel.

There are lots of programs to help you design the enclosure.

The tough part is driver selection and the crossover. Here you will need some education. Again there are programs to assist you.

There are huge advantages to DIY. These days it is hard to audition many speakers. If you don't like it, it is a problem. With DIY if you have a total disaster you can just scrap it. Usually it is a crossover problem and as long as you have made sensible driver selections you can modify crossover until the cows come home. We now have measuring tools available to all, and not have to develop a highly trained eat to tweak your crossovers as in times past. A really good ear still helps though.

Do not make your first design a three way. They require quite a bit of experience under your belt.

I just thank my lucky stars every day, that I never have to go shopping for speakers! What a dreadful chore that must be.

I have a lot of experience building random things, but speakers are extremely inticate. I think I'm up for the challenge. Thanks for all the advice.

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks for that mention. I was looking into the idea of something with larger unpowered woofers to achieve better bass extension. I guess a better way to word what I said would have been to say I want to take advantage of my amps capabilities

Higher power amps can help with low sensitivity/low impedance speakers, higher sensitivity and higher impedance speakers would allow the amp to work less and provide more headroom....also depends a bit on your distance from the speakers and your spl goals. I still wouldn't expect a full range speaker in your budget range to have excellent bass capabilities, I prefer to utilize subwoofers myself.

 

[Hayden Lloyd]

Higher power amps can help with low sensitivity/low impedance speakers, higher sensitivity and higher impedance speakers would allow the amp to work less and provide more headroom....also depends a bit on your distance from the speakers and your spl goals. I still wouldn't expect a full range speaker in your budget range to have excellent bass capabilities, I prefer to utilize subwoofers myself.

I think a pair of svs sb 10" subs would be a solid option if found at a good price used. But that's a lot of money that could go toward better towers. Maybe even a pair of small Hsus if they can be had for a decent price. I'm really leaning towards sealed subs if I get subs, but they are a lot more expensive for the needed level of output

 

[lovinthehd]

I think a pair of svs sb 10" subs would be a solid option if found at a good price used. But that's a lot of money that could go toward better towers. Maybe even a pair of small Hsus if they can be had for a decent price. I'm really leaning towards sealed subs if I get subs, but they are a lot more expensive for the needed level of output

If you want significant bass I think more than the 10" PB1000 would be in order but your budget still gets in the way. I'd rather go for good bookshelf speakers and very capable subs myself. I think the used market isn't as helpful as you think it's going to be....

 

[Swerd]

I active in Delaware, it would be only about an hour drive

If you're near Wilmington (U of Delaware?), that would be 2 hours away, or more in heavy traffic. If you have the time, and want to make the trip, just let me know when.

I have a lot of experience building random things, but speakers are extremely inticate. I think I'm up for the challenge. Thanks for all the advice.

When I first started DIY, I had little experience. I stayed with tried & true speaker recipes designed by someone else. Building crossover boards was fairly easy to learn, but I found wood work was harder. Floor standing speaker cabinets, where all the parts fit tight and are square & vertical will be a challenge. (And then there's the finish.) Experienced wood workers know better how to recover from their mistakes .

Sub woofer(s) can always be added later once you know how the speakers themselves sound. The ER18 MTMs have an F3 (the bass frequency where they have dropped 3 dB in loudness) of 35 Hz, and they have useful bass as low as 31 Hz. With a powerful amp, that may be good enough.

 

[slipperybidness]

Do any of you know what sort of tolerances I will need to work within to get the sound quality I'm looking for? I'm trying to get my hands on something serious. My amp/preamp/dac is 4.5k msrp. Do you think a diy build could unlock its full potential? I'd love to build something myself, but I'm worried that it might not sound any better than anything I could buy for the same price and would have much less of a resale value. I have not experience building speakers. Does anyone know what sort of quality I cam expect if I build them correctly?

If you go with a kit, many of these are designed by top-tier speaker designers! For example, that Solstice kit that I linked is designed by Jeff Bagby, a very well respected speaker designer with a long list of DIY and commercially available speakers to his credit. Furthermore, those drivers are top notch cutting edge technology! Go look at the price of that kit, then take a look at the price of just the drivers, and get ready for a shock!

However, the largest drawback from DIY and kits is likely a lower resale value as compared to commercial offerings.

 

[Hayden Lloyd]

If you're near Wilmington (U of Delaware?), that would be 2 hours away, or more in heavy traffic. If you have the time, and want to make the trip, just let me know when.
When I first started DIY, I had little experience. I stayed with tried & true speaker recipes designed by someone else. Building crossover boards was fairly easy to learn, but I found wood work was harder. Floor standing speaker cabinets, where all the parts fit tight and are square & vertical will be a challenge. (And then there's the finish.) Experienced wood workers know better how to recover from their mistakes .

Sub woofer(s) can always be added later once you know how the speakers themselves sound. The ER18 MTMs have an F3 (the bass frequency where they have dropped 3 dB in loudness) of 35 Hz, and they have useful bass as low as 31 Hz. With a powerful amp, that may be good enough.

I'd love to make the trip sometime. I was thinking 1 hour to Baltimore. DC is two hours from me. I go to University of Delaware. I would probably bring my roommate along too if you don't mind. He is also interested in this stuff. Down to 35hz is would be pretty good I think as long as the bass is still punchy enough to feel it in your chest at a regular listening volume. The music I listen to depends a lot on being able to clearly hear and feel the percussion.

 

[Hayden Lloyd]

If you go with a kit, many of these are designed by top-tier speaker designers! For example, that Solstice kit that I linked is designed by Jeff Bagby, a very well respected speaker designer with a long list of DIY and commercially available speakers to his credit. Furthermore, those drivers are top notch cutting edge technology! Go look at the price of that kit, then take a look at the price of just the drivers, and get ready for a shock!

However, the largest drawback from DIY and kits is likely a lower resale value as compared to commercial offerings.

I figured the resale would be the biggest issue. My next step is deciding on which kit will best suit what I want out of the speakers. Ive never looked into kits before. I'm to have to spend a little while looking around before I decide on a particular one. Any others in particular I should consider?