Best subwoofer for money under 2000€

[tyhjaarpa]

Hello!

I was asking pretty much same question year ago when I was about to buy sub but unfortunately I had to reprioritize my money. So now I have possibility to buy a sub again and hopefully for real this time.

Absolute maximum budget is 2000€ but would prefer to go under that. I know 2 sub's would be better than one and I would like to get 2 subs, and some day I will, but in my current apartment this is not possible. Sub is going to be used 50/50 for music and movies. Accuracy is more important than loudness for me and I would like to go down to 20Hz or close to that for movies. Room size is around 5m x 5m with one smallish opening to hallway. I would prefer a sealed sub for smaller size if possible. Rest of my equipment is in signature.

Pretty much has to be from Europe with delivery to Finland. Outside of Europe shipping cost would be around 100€ I believe and toll with taxes would be around 500€ with my budget.

Year ago I was pretty much set for SVS SB13 Ultra at 1700€ but price has gone up now to 1900€ and I was thinking that is it still the best value for my money? SVS SB-2000 would be 800/900€ depending on finish. How would SB-2000 compare to SB13U for the price difference? What get's my eye with SB-2000 is weight, it seems really light, would this be an issue?

So what do you think, what would be best value sub for my needs from European market?

Thank you.

 

[rojo]

I think in Europe, BK Electronics based in the UK has the best price :: performance ratio. ELAC also has some promising offerings coming soon in the U.S. market, but I'm not sure whether the Debut series will be sold in Europe. Also, XTZ Sound in Sweden would be worth a look.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

+1 on BK subs. Seems like good value and getting good rep on AVForums.
Another option is Tannoy TS2.12 sub.

 

[shadyJ]

How much is the XTZ 3x12? That looks like a great sub, and should cost less in Europe than in the USA. That would majorly outperform the SB13 Ultra.

 

[tyhjaarpa]

Interesting options out there..

http://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers/XXLS400DF.htm This looks pretty nice for around 700€ with delivery. What do you think, how would this compare with SB-2000 or SB13U?

http://www.elac.com/en/products/Subwoofer/SUB_2050/index.php From Elac this one looks pretty nice, tho I dont really like Elac looks so much. This unit would be around 1200-1300€.. But again how would it perform?

http://tannoy.com/residential/#!products_425 Tannoy looks again really light weight, doesn't it? Price for this unit is around 800€

http://www.xtzsound.com/en/products/subwoofers/sub-3x12-matt-studio-black Is out of guestion (WAF)

http://www.xtzsound.com/en/products/subwoofers/sub-1x12-matt-studio-black How is this performing? Price tag is around 800€

 

[rojo]

Given that you can open the XTZ slot for vented tuning, I'd say that'll have more potential than the pure sealed subs. If you can spare an additional 2cm depth * 14cm width per sub, I think you'd be happier with a pair of the BK Monolith+ DF than the XXLS400.

The ELAC sub I had in mind was on this page, the S12EQ. I haven't seen any indication when or whether they'll be offered in Europe, though. Fancy thing about this sub is that it can connect to your mobile phone via Bluetooth and use your phone's mic for room response calibration. While it won't dig as deep as the BK, its integrated room correction could give it the flattest response in your room without needing a miniDSP or Audyssey XT32 + SubEQ HT.... oh. You have a Marantz SR7008, do you? Never mind the ELAC sub, then!

I have no comment to offer on the Tannoy.

I'd say check with XTZ and see how much it'll cost you if the subs fail the audition in your home; then do the same with BK Electonics. Start with the lower risk option. I think either would be a lovely choice though.

 

[tyhjaarpa]

For now I have to set with one sub, so I would like to look now for best single sub option.. When we are getting new apartment I have chance for another sub, but that will take at least 2 to 3 years..

And yes I do have Marantz SR7008 with XT32 sub room correction.

Elac S12EQ looks quite light weight again? And goes down to 28Hz? And like you said, can't know when they are available..

From current options I would go for either SVS or BK.. Maybe XTZ. But which sub is another guestion.. I guess I have to do some reading about those BK and XTZ subs..

 

[tyhjaarpa]

Have been reading quite a while while working about these listed subs today. For sweet price point BK XXLS400-DF and SVS SB-2000 seem to be pretty nice options and they both look pretty nice and would be better WAF than some other options. What I can't find tho is how these 2 subs compare with each other.. Or how they compare with SVS SB13U that is twice as expensive.. XXLS400 is around 750€ here, might be possible to get one for 650€ if I'm able to order it online while SB-2000 being 900€ on the better finish..

What I would like to know is how these compare together and would it be worth to pay more for another or not?

 

[Steve81]

Have been reading quite a while while working about these listed subs today. For sweet price point BK XXLS400-DF and SVS SB-2000 seem to be pretty nice options and they both look pretty nice and would be better WAF than some other options. What I can't find tho is how these 2 subs compare with each other..

There's not much objective data out there that I'm aware of, but I can provide a few thoughts. In terms of overall hardware, the two seem similar as the SB2000 also uses a custom Peerless XXLS AFAIK. The difference in rated power (500W vs 400W) is negligible, though the BK appears to have a larger enclosure which tends to boost deep bass sensitivity.

IMHO, what's more important is how the response is shaped. SVS manipulates the basic FR a great deal in order to extend the response into the 20Hz range; along with a high pass filter to keep the driver out of trouble, the response looks more like what you'd get out of a vented sub, at least until the sub is pushed hard. Judging by older measurements of the XLS-200DF (10" driver, 275W amp, smaller enclosure), BK doesn't do a lot of signal shaping in the amp, so you see a higher -3dB point, but a fairly extended response, and excellent transient response looking at the spectral decay. That approach tends to be well suited to smaller spaces where cabin gain will boost the low end.

As far as the XTZ Sub 1x12 goes, from what I've seen it seems roughly comparable to the PB2000 in terms of output. Can't say much else though.

 

[tyhjaarpa]

Still little unsure which one would be best.. Going to ask today from local dealer if they can get BK XXLS400-DF and possibility to audition it.. What I have read about it, it sounds almost too good for it's price.. Haven't found any measurements from it tho so cant really compare directly how it would perform.

 

[tyhjaarpa]

Local dealer has no opportunity to get the sub unfortunately.. So I have placed an order online for 750€ delivered. Hopefully I will like it, they have 14 days return policy tho but would be easier if I was set on first try.

EDIT: BK XXLS400-DF is what I ordered.

EDIT2: Just got call from the dealer I made the order from and Black (matte) color takes 2 weeks to ship.. Damn.. Didn't expect that color to take that long.. Some other colors were ready to ship today but then again I have to look that sub for years so rather to wait to get what I really want..

 

[tyhjaarpa]

So I got my XXLS400-DF on the friday and got it installed, was pretty amazed from it straight away out of box. On saturday I took the time to correctly calibrate it with my receiver and it sure has more kick than I could ask, only using 1/4 th of its power to match my speakers in my room!

After calibration I listened to some of my favourite songs and the sound world I was getting got me almost crying.. With music this sub sounds so beautiful and integrates really well and takes load out of my speakers and allow the speakers shine even more. I tried some short movie tracks as well and it sounds really nice! For movies I hope I was allowed to buy another one as my sub location is not perfect and I'm able to locate the sub, but with music I cant locate it. Have to do some more movie testing still with this sub and play with the settings, maybe I'm able to hide it with movies as well in this location. And for sure I would order another one straight away if I was allowed to! Best 750€ upgrade so far on my setup and I'm happy that I saved those 1150€ versus the SVS SB13-ultra, ofcourse I cant compare to SB13-ultra as I havent heard it, but I'm more than satisfied with this little beast.

The finish on unit is really nice as well! Sorry for the bad picture with phone:

 

[tyhjaarpa]

Somehow I have got permission to buy second sub and it should arrive in a week or two. The sub will be the same XXLS400-DF in matte black like the one I have now. It is the first time I'm experiencing with 2 sub setup so there is something new for me as well. I really hope that I can hear the difference and get even reponse in my room with 2 sub setup as now the response is not even on all seats and in some tracks I can localize the one sub as well. Will share the impression when I have everything set up.

 

[KenM10759]

What a terrific set you have with those KEF R series speakers and now two excellent quality subwoofers. Of course calibration of it all is the key to getting the best overall performance, so I wish you well in doing that.

What method will you use to calibrate the two subs and integrate with the rest of the system?

 

[tyhjaarpa]

What a terrific set you have with those KEF R series speakers and now two excellent quality subwoofers. Of course calibration of it all is the key to getting the best overall performance, so I wish you well in doing that.

What method will you use to calibrate the two subs and integrate with the rest of the system?

I'm using Audyssey XT32 Sub EQ HT from my receiver to calibrate my subs. I also do some adjustments by ear if needed.

 

[tyhjaarpa]

I must admit that I'm happy with this upgrade. Now the bass response is pretty even on all 3 main listening positions, 2 secondary positions had really low bass response before and now they have overwhelming bass. Those secondary positions how ever are rarely used unless I have friends to watch a movie with us so it will be fine as the main seats are good now and that matters most. If some of my friends complain that there is no bass I can direct them to those secondary seats now! Also I can't locate the sub anymore by ear and this is great as in some content it was really disturbing.

I must say that the end results are MUCH better with 2 subs compared to one sub, how ever you must do a lot more work to get it right with 2 subs compared to one. With one sub it was almost plug and play with Audyssey leveling and corrections as I only had to adjust sub level and crossover settings to get it sound good. With 2 subs I had to run Audyssey twice and tweak crossover and levels quite a lot to get it sound like I wanted to but in the end it was well worth it. With one sub 80Hz crossover sounded best but with 2 subs I had to drop crossover to 60Hz. Audyssey also set the levels way off, with one sub I had to raise sub level by 5 and with 2 subs I think I ended raising one sub by 5 and another by 8.

My sub positions are quite limited due to space and WAF and I was quite worried how it will sound in the end but to my surprise it sounds really well how it is. I have heard some 1 sub systems that sound really good but then again they have the one sub in perfect spot, in my case neither of subs are in perfect spot but thats what I have to live with for now and I know it could be even worse than this.

My conclusion is that if you can have your one sub in perfect spot you will get away with it and it sounds great. If you can't get your sub on perfect spot, like most of us can't, 2 subs is the way to go to get good bass response.

 

[tyhjaarpa]

After 8 weeks I think I have finally set with the calibration. I redirected my speakers meanwhile as well and I must say that the sound is much cleaner now as my speaker angles were bit off vertically before.

For the crossover I have went back to 80Hz and LFE to 120Hz. Also the sub levels are now only slightly higher than what Audyssey set them at, how ever I had to play with the sub volume level from what Audyssey set them at as with that setting I could locate the sub closer to seating position. Also the overwhelming bass output in secondary seats is now pretty much gone and is more even compared to main seats.

When I first did the calibration I thought I had it done but when I started to listen some music / watch some movies I heard problems here and there and have been tweaking the settings every time I have located a problem. For the past couple weeks I haven't been locating any problems and I hope I finally have it done correctly.

 

[KenM10759]

Happy to know that. Your experience has been a good one for me to draw upon, as I've found certain seating positions in my room that just don't have the bass response of my main listening position. This isn't a problem for me, it's an issue when friends and family are here and I'm showing them what my little system can do. Or at least I thought I was. Now I know to put them where I normally sit for best results...until I can add a second sub.

 

[Morquecho]

Hi guys, I'm a bit late to the party, but have a similar question.

I am actually almost in the same situation. Live in Finland, want to get 2 subs, use is for movies, music and gaming, more or less in equal proportion, and budget is similar, some €2000. My room is 4ish x 4 x 2.8 mts with 2 door openings.

I have narrowed it down to the SVS SB-2000 and the XTZ 1x12, those seem to be the best options for my room size, since the SB13-ultra and the 3x12 would be way too much for my room dimensions.
Prices are similar, SVS is €850 in black ash, piano gloss is €950, and XTZ is also €850 only matte black, the good thing is that I can get the XTZs with a discount for €700 each.
How do they compare in performance?

I have been looking as speakers as well, and if I get the SVS, I would match the subs with the concerta2 M16/C25/S16 speakers (they sound great and come in gloss black as well).
If i get the XTZ, I would match the subs with probably the rest of the cinema series since the color is the same and they seem to be well regarded.
What do you think about Amphion seakers? I recently found out about them, I know they are from Finland, but haven't hear them, and I can't find much information about them in internet, Argon1/5c/0 would be the set of amphions, the dealer said they are good, but i had to leave and didn't get a chance to hear them.
Those 3 speaker sets are in the same prince range here in Finland.

I hope somebody is still reading this post, what is your opinion?
a) 2 XTZ 1x12 subs + XTZ cinema 3 M6 for mains and 2 S5 for surrounds
b) 2 XTZ 1x12 subs + 2 Amphion argon 1s for mains , 2 argon 0s for surrounds and the center 5c
c) 2 SVS sb-2000 subs + Revel concerta2s, 2 M16s for mains, center C25, and S16s for surrounds

By the way, newbie here, my first post in audioholics ever! =)

 

[shadyJ]

Hi guys, I'm a bit late to the party, but have a similar question.

I am actually almost in the same situation. Live in Finland, want to get 2 subs, use is for movies, music and gaming, more or less in equal proportion, and budget is similar, some €2000. My room is 4ish x 4 x 2.8 mts with 2 door openings.

I have narrowed it down to the SVS SB-2000 and the XTZ 1x12, those seem to be the best options for my room size, since the SB13-ultra and the 3x12 would be way too much for my room dimensions.
Prices are similar, SVS is €850 in black ash, piano gloss is €950, and XTZ is also €850 only matte black, the good thing is that I can get the XTZs with a discount for €700 each.
How do they compare in performance?

I have been looking as speakers as well, and if I get the SVS, I would match the subs with the concerta2 M16/C25/S16 speakers (they sound great and come in gloss black as well).
If i get the XTZ, I would match the subs with probably the rest of the cinema series since the color is the same and they seem to be well regarded.
What do you think about Amphion seakers? I recently found out about them, I know they are from Finland, but haven't hear them, and I can't find much information about them in internet, Argon1/5c/0 would be the set of amphions, the dealer said they are good, but i had to leave and didn't get a chance to hear them.
Those 3 speaker sets are in the same prince range here in Finland.

I hope somebody is still reading this post, what is your opinion?
a) 2 XTZ 1x12 subs + XTZ cinema 3 M6 for mains and 2 S5 for surrounds
b) 2 XTZ 1x12 subs + 2 Amphion argon 1s for mains , 2 argon 0s for surrounds and the center 5c
c) 2 SVS sb-2000 subs + Revel concerta2s, 2 M16s for mains, center C25, and S16s for surrounds

By the way, newbie here, my first post in audioholics ever! =)

Welcome to Audioholics. I don't have experience with XTZ or Argon, but I do like the Revel speakers, they are very well balanced speakers. By all reports XTZ speakers are supposedly quite good. You can't go wrong with the XTZ or SVS subwoofers. I would say if your room is on the larger side, get the XTZ subs, but if it is on the smaller side, get the SVS subs. What are the dimensions of your room? Is there any openings to other areas?

Edit: oops, somehow I missed that his room dimensions are stated in his post!