To Equalize Or Not To Equalize, That Is The Question.

[MarkTheShark]

So, I'm playing around with my system tonight. I have a Rogue Audio Sphinx, Martin Logan Motion 15s and a UTurn turn table with a Grado Black 1. I would think the sound would be somewhat flat with no treble or bass control, but still sound pretty good.
Listening to Max Richter, Four Seasons, the high end is horrible, screeching. My question is, at what point, and to what level do you start to add tone control, Bass or even an equalizer. I grew up with equalizers and always thought they made my system sound better. Equalizers seem to be obsolete in this day and age. I know most AV receivers have built in equalizers, but are they the same as an actual component?

 

[MarkTheShark]

Ok, so Now listening to Bill Evens Trio, it sounds really good. Maybe this little system is not sophisticated enough for the extremes of Vavaldi. So the question still remains, do "audiophiles" strive for the highest end kit, with the least sound correction, for "pure" music? Or will there always be a need for some correction?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

You have two issues:
a) actual root issue - speakers - they are just way too bright. See red trace on this link:
http://www.soundandvision.com/conte...r-system-ht-labs-measures#TcJg6QCpv00KIJrG.97
b)Since you use integrated amp, I assume you've wired your LP to phono input, thus using phono pre-stage. EQing could be done between pre-amp and amp, in your case - it's in same box.
If want to eq, you need to an external phono preamp first and then (I recommend) PEQ (not EQ) between photo pre-amp and your Sphinx (wired as line in, not phono)

 

[MarkTheShark]

Thanks BoredsysAdmin

"The Motion 15’s listening-window response measures +1.54/–2.84 dB from 200 Hz to 10 kHz. The –3-dB point is at 83 Hz, and the –6-dB point is at 69 Hz. Impedance reaches a minimum of 3.78 ohms at 2.0 kHz and a phase angle of –61.05 degrees at 136 Hz.
Read more at http://www.soundandvision.com/conte...r-system-ht-labs-measures#84GyGuDJkgOJUlu4.99"

Not sure what all that means, but yes, I think the Motion 15s are a little too bright. I am surprised the were breaking up on the high end though.

I have phono amps on the amp and the turntable, are you suggesting another phono amp with tone settings?

 

[Verdinut]

Hi Mark,
If the high end is usually right with most of the CDs you listen to, then the problem with Richter's arrangement of Vivaldi's Four Seasons could well be distortion on the disc. As you probably already know, not all CDs are properly processed and I'm also pissed off with distorted audio sources.

At present, I try to get HD FLAC files of CDs and a lot of them are available now. Of course, if the recording engineer is usually recording pop stuff and doesn't care about the bigger dynamic range of classical music, you won't get a good CD or FLAC file. The FLAC file is usually quite superior though.

Several websites sell those FLAC files, one of them being the British site: PrestoClassical.co.uk. Sooner or later, we will no longer be able to buy CDS. If you prefer to have a reel physical file on a disc as I do, you procced as I do. You transfer the FLAC file onto a DVD-Audio disc using a DVD-R disc. A good software which I use for this is the Cirlinca HD-Audio Solo Ultra 4.4.

Cheers,

 

[MarkTheShark]

Hi Mark,
If the high end is usually right with most of the CDs you listen to, then the problem with Richter's arrangement of Vivaldi's Four Seasons could well be distortion on the disc. As you probably already know, not all CDs are properly processed and I'm also pissed off with distorted audio sources.

At present, I try to get HD FLAC files of CDs and a lot of them are available now. Of course, if the recording engineer is usually recording pop stuff and doesn't care about the bigger dynamic range of classical music, you won't get a good CD or FLAC file. The FLAC file is usually quite superior though.

Several websites sell those FLAC files, one of them being the British site: PrestoClassical.co.uk. Sooner or later, we will no longer be able to buy CDS. If you prefer to have a reel physical file on a disc as I do, you procced as I do. You transfer the FLAC file onto a DVD-Audio disc using a DVD-R disc. A good software which I use for this is the Cirlinca HD-Audio Solo Ultra 4.4.

Cheers,

Hello Verdinut,
I have been transferring all my CDs to FLAC files. I thought that a FLAC file that came from a CD is the same quality as the CD itself. Are the HD FLAC files downloaded from the internet an even higher quality?
The Richters Four Seasons I was listening to was an album and I believe the it has a fairly high production value. As BoredsysAdmin says, I think my speakers have limitations. I am upgrading shortly, so I can compare.

 

[highfigh]

You have two issues:
a) actual root issue - speakers - they are just way too bright. See red trace on this link:
http://www.soundandvision.com/conte...r-system-ht-labs-measures#TcJg6QCpv00KIJrG.97
b)Since you use integrated amp, I assume you've wired your LP to phono input, thus using phono pre-stage. EQing could be done between pre-amp and amp, in your case - it's in same box.
If want to eq, you need to an external phono preamp first and then (I recommend) PEQ (not EQ) between photo pre-amp and your Sphinx (wired as line in, not phono)

Outboard equalizers are made to be used on a tape loop, not between the preamp and power amp. SOME may work, but most are made to receive about 1V P-P signal and at higher levels, the signal can compress or distort when connected to the preamp's output.

 

[highfigh]

Thanks BoredsysAdmin

"The Motion 15’s listening-window response measures +1.54/–2.84 dB from 200 Hz to 10 kHz. The –3-dB point is at 83 Hz, and the –6-dB point is at 69 Hz. Impedance reaches a minimum of 3.78 ohms at 2.0 kHz and a phase angle of –61.05 degrees at 136 Hz.
Read more at http://www.soundandvision.com/conte...r-system-ht-labs-measures#84GyGuDJkgOJUlu4.99"

Not sure what all that means, but yes, I think the Motion 15s are a little too bright. I am surprised the were breaking up on the high end though.

I have phono amps on the amp and the turntable, are you suggesting another phono amp with tone settings?

If this is the only LP that sound bad, it's either a bad pressing or a bad version. If it was used, blame the previous owner.

I would also advise getting some kind of cartridge setup protractor and check the alignment of the Grado.

Phono preamps don't generally have tone controls, but some have capacitance and impedance settings that can alter the response.

Can you play this LP on another system, to find out if it sounds as bad? That's where I would start.

 

[MarkTheShark]

Outboard equalizers are made to be used on a tape loop, not between the preamp and power amp. SOME may work, but most are made to receive about 1V P-P signal and at higher levels, the signal can compress or distort when connected to the preamp's output.

Ok, so if your buying high end gear, you should not have to adjust the original music much at all. Maybe just some Treble and Bass control? What about the on-board equalizer on an AV receiver?

 

[MarkTheShark]

If this is the only LP that sound bad, it's either a bad pressing or a bad version. If it was used, blame the previous owner.

I would also advise getting some kind of cartridge setup protractor and check the alignment of the Grado.

Phono preamps don't generally have tone controls, but some have capacitance and impedance settings that can alter the response.

Can you play this LP on another system, to find out if it sounds as bad? That's where I would start.

I'll look into the phono protractor, thanks.

Also, maybe play the album on another system.

 

[highfigh]

Ok, so if your buying high end gear, you should not have to adjust the original music much at all. Maybe just some Treble and Bass control? What about the on-board equalizer on an AV receiver?

The high end market doesn't like anything that might adulterate the signal, even if their equipment is already doing it. There's an old joke that high end amplifiers should consist of "straight wire, with gain" because it would be the most simple signal path, but it's impossible to have this.

If you decide to use an equalizer, you'll want to make sure its signal to noise ratio is extremely low- most audio equipment made now is much more quiet than it was in the '70s and '80s, so a noisy equalizer will make its presence known when no music is playing, rather than just being part of the noise crowd with older equipment. AV receivers still add noise when the equalizer is adjusted manually and the control for some bands is adjusted excessively high. The difference between new EQs and old ones is that the new ones can use circuits that were hard/impossible to build with the components and technology available at the time. What used to require a whole box the size of a tape deck can be build on a chip, now.

 

[highfigh]

I'll look into the phono protractor, thanks.

Also, maybe play the album on another system.

Do you also hear a lot of surface noise with this album? If so, maybe it needs to be cleaned. If you have a record cleaner and it uses some kind of liquid, that may be the source of the noise.

I have never been a fan of using liquids to clean records, especially if it comes with something like Discwasher. The fabric eventually becomes loaded with dirt and dried liquid which is abrasive and at that point, it's a bit like plowing gravel around your yard. I have an Audio Technica cleaner that has a velour-covered pad with directional fibers and it's the second one, but I never used the liquid- if I can see a film after using the cleaner, that's a problem. My LPs are very clean and I only have a few that are noisy, basically because I have played them too many times and they have a limited lifespan.

 

[Verdinut]

Hello Verdinut,
I have been transferring all my CDs to FLAC files. I thought that a FLAC file that came from a CD is the same quality as the CD itself. Are the HD FLAC files downloaded from the internet an even higher quality?
The Richters Four Seasons I was listening to was an album and I believe the it has a fairly high production value. As BoredsysAdmin says, I think my speakers have limitations. I am upgrading shortly, so I can compare.

Sure, The HD FLAC files I was referring to are 24bit-96KHz (and 24bit-192KHz is available for a few but at a higher cost), but I don't see the point in spending the extra money.
Here is also a link to a list of sites from which FLAC files are available:
http://www.head-fi.org/a/list-of-lo...sic-flac-alac-aiff-dsd-dxd-etc-download-sites