Tempest Build

[MrBoat]

Now I need a striped shirt, some flags and a whistle. "Face mask! Holding! 15 yards!"

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Mr boat, I am duly impressed. Nice concept and execution. Fwiw, I like the grills in silver. I'm a metal polishing nerd and the black is nice but I would have left them. I also think dragsters are art so...
Anyway, real nice job.
Btw, what kind of boat are you anyway? Lol

 

[MrBoat]

Mr boat, I am duly impressed. Nice concept and execution. Fwiw, I like the grills in silver. I'm a metal polishing nerd and the black is nice but I would have left them. I also think dragsters are art so...
Anyway, real nice job.
Btw, what kind of boat are you anyway? Lol

Polishing metal is part of my day job and I also have a pretty decent setup here at home as well with every imaginable type of compound. Also have access to anodizing and powder coating. At some point, one has to tell one's self, "enough is enough."

"MrBoat" is a name I made up in a hurry when I first got online in 1992. I had no idea what I was doing and when I was prompted for a user name, I just used one related to my work. Then I built a wood boat for myself and it got to be what I was known as. I have a good friend who is from Jamaica. He and his family refer to me as, "boat mon."

I build shiny things all day, every day.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Nice center console. Amazing framework on the canopy. I'm assuming this is a shot from work? It looks great.

 

[MrBoat]

Nice center console. Amazing framework on the canopy. I'm assuming this is a shot from work? It looks great.

Yep. That's work.

 

[Bucknekked]

Yep. That's work.

Once again, I'm knocked out by the quality of your work Paul.
You got skills buddy. Making speaker grilles would seem to be a snap for you.
In my next life, I shall endeavor to get some skills.

 

[MrBoat]

Once again, I'm knocked out by the quality of your work Paul.
You got skills buddy. Making speaker grilles would seem to be a snap for you.
In my next life, I shall endeavor to get some skills.

It's never too late, Buck. Thank you for the compliment.

The grilles were actually a bit of a challenge with regard to perseverance. I honestly don't remember scrutinizing the design that much once I figured out what I didn't want. I just rolled with it. I had some doubts along the way. Changed one aspect of it mid point.

I almost made the rings out of cherry to match the veneer to put it over the top, theme wise. Maybe when I get my shop back in order, after the TV/component stand, the new speaker kit I just received etc. lol

 

[MrBoat]

Ok. Fusion-12 Tempests update. Pure direct mode, crossed over at 60hz, with the Ultimax subwoofer, is frikn' amazing. My first try with them in pure direct. I honestly don't see how I can top this combination. This is at casual to moderate listening levels. These speakers have hidden potential allover the place.

I have adjusted the EQ in the computer. Played some jazz fusion, blues, funk, classic rock, Bosendorfer piano demos etc. I am having a difficult time finding fault.

 

[tyhjaarpa]

I am often my worst critic and I was willing to scrap this idea if it were indeed, hideous, but I am ultimately pleased with the result. I will not need fasteners to affix these to the speakers. I have managed a twist on fit to the gaskets and the gaskets bottom out perfectly in the recesses of the rings. Nothing about the Tempests is aesthetically subtle. I think these face masks fit the speakers personality, or at least mine, anyway.

The stands won't take as long. I am just unsure if I want to make stands, or to build a component/tv stand and get rid of the end tables altogether to where I won't need stands. It has me in kind of a snag with the television because I need to put it on something regardless and I have no other place to put it for the time being.

Nice looking speaker you have build! Wish I had the tools and skill to make work like that..

 

[slipperybidness]

Ok. Fusion-12 Tempests update. Pure direct mode, crossed over at 60hz, with the Ultimax subwoofer, is frikn' amazing. My first try with them in pure direct. I honestly don't see how I can top this combination. This is at casual to moderate listening levels. These speakers have hidden potential allover the place.

I have adjusted the EQ in the computer. Played some jazz fusion, blues, funk, classic rock, Bosendorfer piano demos etc. I am having a difficult time finding fault.

1 technical point here--if you truly have an activated 60Hz crossover, then that likely should not be called "pure direct". You may be able to call it "direct" but not "pure direct". At least that is how it works on my Pio Elite AVR.

Pure direct should mean "absolutely no processing"--analog signal in and analog signal out, no digital signal processing.

Furthermore, if you are using EQ, then how can you claim that to be "direct" or "pure direct"?

 

[ski2xblack]

Nice looking speaker you have build! Wish I had the tools and skill to make work like that..

The kits themselves are actually about as easy as it gets...the fancy veneer and machined speaker grille take a bit more talent.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

1 technical point here--if you truly have an activated 60Hz crossover, then that likely should not be called "pure direct". You may be able to call it "direct" but not "pure direct". At least that is how it works on my Pio Elite AVR.

Pure direct should mean "absolutely no processing"--analog signal in and analog signal out, no digital signal processing.

Furthermore, if you are using EQ, then how can you claim that to be "direct" or "pure direct"?

Yep. My onkyo and pioneer are both this way also. "Pure direct" will disable all the video functions and display on the avr. Direct/pure direct modes also deactivate the subwoofer, and run the mains full range. If I want mains with subs I have to select "stereo".

 

[MrBoat]

1 technical point here--if you truly have an activated 60Hz crossover, then that likely should not be called "pure direct". You may be able to call it "direct" but not "pure direct". At least that is how it works on my Pio Elite AVR.

Pure direct should mean "absolutely no processing"--analog signal in and analog signal out, no digital signal processing.

Furthermore, if you are using EQ, then how can you claim that to be "direct" or "pure direct"?

The Amp to the sub has DSP. I don't care what it is called. I switched the AVR to pure direct mode. Whatever it is, or isn't doing, it sounds amazing. The EQ is at the source before the AVR. I EQ'd the signal going to it.

See, this is the problem with you nerds these days. You're all wrapped up in the numbers and technicalities of it all.

Same with welding. They 'upgraded' the machines to inverter technology and a lot of computerized functions/settings and now the newbs put all of their faith in the machines and precious settings. Now the interwebs are full of people troubleshooting and second guessing the technology. Yet we've been fusing the same metals together expertly with simple transformers for years. The lab coats cannot stand this. Up slope, down slope, +- voltages and trying to win over nature by torturing the simple sine wave and fixing what wasn't broken. Every upgrade now, is a bug fix for the rushed technology last year. All of this just to replace the experience factor of the hands-on elite that went to school for the trade and spent 10 years climbing out of the beginners hole. You simply cannot tell them when their work looks like poo, that they are going to have to spend a lot more hood time burning rods, so back to the settings they go and 5 more years go by.

What is likely happening is, the Tempests are playing for all their worth full range, unhindered, and the sub is only playing from 60hz down to however low it will go. This is what prompted the move, because the Tempests have an amazing mid range/bass that I noticed was missing when I had it set at 80 via the AVR. Now there is clear bass tone coming from the Tempests, and thump and lower tones from the sub.

ETA: This is an old AVR. A Denon 3805.

 

[MrBoat]

Yep. My onkyo and pioneer are both this way also. "Pure direct" will disable all the video functions and display on the avr. Direct/pure direct modes also deactivate the subwoofer, and run the mains full range. If I want mains with subs I have to select "stereo".

The sub is still playing. It's connected to the pre-out for the sub and has it's own separate amp. All of which is adjustable from the PC. I can pretty much simultaneously adjust the amps filters and the EQ for the source, without moving from the sweet spot. Yes, all of the AVR's functions are turned off, lights out and all that.

This was kind of my point. It was late and I didn't fully explain. I take it for granted that everyone knows what I am using. The Tempests don't need much in the way of enhancement from the AVR. I could hook these dudes up to a stereo amp provided it had pre outs for the sub, or some other preamp arrangement. I had never gotten to see what they could actually do on their own.

 

[MrBoat]

Sorry about leaving out the pertinent information. I had been reading all night about amps, due to the claims here by some, that for music, stereo amps were better than an AVR. It made me curious. The details on the internet are erroneous. The manuals for the equipment are rather sparse on the details.

At any rate, my findings initially are, the Tempests are incredible speakers. Also, the amplifiers on the Denon are actually quite good, even when separated from their enhancements!

ETA: Don't take the nerds comment too personally. I am one myself in a lot of ways. I hope the smiley emoticon depicts the joking aspect of that comment.

I had been reading Jeff Bagby's glowing assessment of the Tempests, and then some other posts where some people were unhappy with them. Jeff claimed they were great for music, while others claimed movies only. I came to the conclusion, after having spent a lot of time with these speakers over the last couple months, that a lot of people are relying too much on plug and play, without actually spending the time before judgement. So, I set out to 'unplug' these speakers without actually hooking up a different amp/preamp to them. I think Jeff Bagby is 100% correct in his assessment.

 

[slipperybidness]

The Amp to the sub has DSP. I don't care what it is called. I switched the AVR to pure direct mode. Whatever it is, or isn't doing, it sounds amazing. The EQ is at the source before the AVR. I EQ'd the signal going to it.

See, this is the problem with you nerds these days. You're all wrapped up in the numbers and technicalities of it all.

Same with welding. They 'upgraded' the machines to inverter technology and a lot of computerized functions/settings and now the newbs put all of their faith in the machines and precious settings. Now the interwebs are full of people troubleshooting and second guessing the technology. Yet we've been fusing the same metals together expertly with simple transformers for years. The lab coats cannot stand this. Up slope, down slope, +- voltages and trying to win over nature by torturing the simple sine wave and fixing what wasn't broken. Every upgrade now, is a bug fix for the rushed technology last year. All of this just to replace the experience factor of the hands-on elite that went to school for the trade and spent 10 years climbing out of the beginners hole. You simply cannot tell them when their work looks like poo, that they are going to have to spend a lot more hood time burning rods, so back to the settings they go and 5 more years go by.

What is likely happening is, the Tempests are playing for all their worth full range, unhindered, and the sub is only playing from 60hz down to however low it will go. This is what prompted the move, because the Tempests have an amazing mid range/bass that I noticed was missing when I had it set at 80 via the AVR. Now there is clear bass tone coming from the Tempests, and thump and lower tones from the sub.

ETA: This is an old AVR. A Denon 3805.

Let me start with my background briefly: I am indeed a hard-core science "nerd" by education and by profession, I have a degree in Chemistry from one of the best chemistry schools in the world. But, I have a blue-collar background, and I also worked as an Apartment Complex Maintenance Man during my college days to fund my education. I think your stereotypes for science nerds doesn't reflect the reality. Most lab techs are incredibly hands-on people, either out of passion or out of necessity. Nowadays, I try not to turn too many wrenches at work just because it doesn't make sense to have your highest level scientist turning wrenches. But, sometimes I can do the work better or faster than the vendor or the lab tech, so I will do it when it is needed (or when I feel like getting away from my desk and the daily BS for a while )

So, in the fields of science, technology, and mathematics, it is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT to have a clear, concise, and narrow definition for technical terms. This is very fundamental to these fields, we MUST start with clear and concise definitions. The reason is that when I speak with other science colleagues from around the world, we must be 100% certain that we are indeed talking about the exact same item based upon these clear, concise, narrow definitions. If not, then we never even get out of the gate, and cannot possibly progress the field. So, this is why I pointed out the technical detail--If you are using EQ then you are NOT Pure Direct! Now that you have explained further, I get what you are saying, but if we are all using the exact same definitions and terms, then there would be no need to explain further, right?

Now, back to your welding analogy--I get it! I agree, I don't go looking to fix problems that don't exist. On the other hand--If the person using that welding equipment has a firm understanding of the fundamentals of welding AND has a firm understanding of all of the fundamentals of these fancy settings, then the newer equipment should be expected to produce superior results. BUT--if the operator doesn't have any of the FUNDAMENTALS--then they are screwed any way you look at it!

Fundamentals are ALWAYS the name of the game here. If you don't get that right, then you absolutely cannot get to the high level work. And if you try high level work without getting the fundamentals, then you are setting yourself up for frustration, failure, and possible safety hazards too.

To bring the comment back full-circle: Clear, Concise, Narrow definitions are the fundamentals of communicating on a technical level.

So, the AVR is in Pure Direct, but the processing is being done external to the AVR. Done.

 

[ski2xblack]

Tempests are incredible speakers.[:thumbs up:] Also, the amplifiers on the Denon are actually quite good, even when separated from their enhancements!

Tempests are extremely sensitive and never drop much below 8 ohms, making them about as easy to drive for amplifiers as can be. You're probably only using a tiny fraction of a watt at normal listening levels, with peak levels well within your Denon's wheelhouse. So for your case, even a much maligned by audio nuts AVR has landed you squarely in the "too much is just enough" spot in the power game, and you didn't need to waste extra money on additional amplification.

 

[Bucknekked]

Ok. Fusion-12 Tempests update. Pure direct mode, crossed over at 60hz, with the Ultimax subwoofer, is frikn' amazing. My first try with them in pure direct. I honestly don't see how I can top this combination. This is at casual to moderate listening levels. These speakers have hidden potential allover the place.

Paul
I see by a simple post you have generated many sparks. Sparks are part of the daily grind of a welder (ooh, double pun), but not necessarily what you may have expected. I appreciated what you had to say, exactly as you said it. Keep updating your experiences and your DIY projects. I may yet jump in and build a pair just because of your example.

 

[MrBoat]

Let me start with my background briefly: I am indeed a hard-core science "nerd" by education and by profession, I have a degree in Chemistry from one of the best chemistry schools in the world. But, I have a blue-collar background, and I also worked as an Apartment Complex Maintenance Man during my college days to fund my education. I think your stereotypes for science nerds doesn't reflect the reality. Most lab techs are incredibly hands-on people, either out of passion or out of necessity. Nowadays, I try not to turn too many wrenches at work just because it doesn't make sense to have your highest level scientist turning wrenches. But, sometimes I can do the work better or faster than the vendor or the lab tech, so I will do it when it is needed (or when I feel like getting away from my desk and the daily BS for a while )

So, in the fields of science, technology, and mathematics, it is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT to have a clear, concise, and narrow definition for technical terms. This is very fundamental to these fields, we MUST start with clear and concise definitions. The reason is that when I speak with other science colleagues from around the world, we must be 100% certain that we are indeed talking about the exact same item based upon these clear, concise, narrow definitions. If not, then we never even get out of the gate, and cannot possibly progress the field. So, this is why I pointed out the technical detail--If you are using EQ then you are NOT Pure Direct! Now that you have explained further, I get what you are saying, but if we are all using the exact same definitions and terms, then there would be no need to explain further, right?

Now, back to your welding analogy--I get it! I agree, I don't go looking to fix problems that don't exist. On the other hand--If the person using that welding equipment has a firm understanding of the fundamentals of welding AND has a firm understanding of all of the fundamentals of these fancy settings, then the newer equipment should be expected to produce superior results. BUT--if the operator doesn't have any of the FUNDAMENTALS--then they are screwed any way you look at it!

Fundamentals are ALWAYS the name of the game here. If you don't get that right, then you absolutely cannot get to the high level work. And if you try high level work without getting the fundamentals, then you are setting yourself up for frustration, failure, and possible safety hazards too.

To bring the comment back full-circle: Clear, Concise, Narrow definitions are the fundamentals of communicating on a technical level.

So, the AVR is in Pure Direct, but the processing is being done external to the AVR. Done.

Yes, yes, yes. . . . Now that this is out of the way, most people who use these pieces of equipment are not scientists! I actually have a bit of it in my background as well, but in metallurgy. Which is also why I see thru the redundancies associated with the new welding tech. I've also been in the trade long enough in which to cross most of these technological thresholds. What it boiled down to was a marketing/brand race to be the first with the new best thing, trying to squeeze new money out of tired technology, and because automation, was going to be the next frontier. It's been an absolute disaster. It hasn't made welding better overall, it's just assured job security for the lab coats. The machine I personally own is all analog. It set the benchmarks back in the day and has not been bested since. But, it's all wound with solid copper, has a 100% duty cycle at full tilt, and weighs over 800#. Guess what the new machines aren't? All of what I just mentioned. And even the trained technicians can't troubleshoot them. They just keep changing circuit boards until something works! Okay, that's not totally true. What inverter technology brings is, a lot less use of electricity or need for heavy duty sources, and they are much more portable. Mark one point for the 'green' aspect of it. Maybe another point for corporate not having to invest in educated/trained employees with trade school certificates.

I wasn't out to claim anything other than that I switched the AVR to pure direct. I've been here long enough to where most people that have been involved with any of my adventures, knows I am not audio tech savvy. Honestly, I'd rather eat bugs, than have all that bouncing around in my head. All the abbreviations etc just seem a bit lazy to me. I mean, c'mon, we're not handwriting this in cursive and carrying it out to the mailbox. Other than that, it just seems a credential to belong to a club, along with the secret handshake.

Still, in spite of my technological lacking, I managed a great performing audio setup. Some here were able to reach me on my terms and figure me out without much stress. Same with welding. I am using the oldest technology in the shop and I'm the dude to beat for the foreseeable future. Call my boss and ask him and he'll flat out admit it. He's been trying to unseat me going on 20 years! All that remains is little piddle spots where the Hollywood stars he hired once stood. When it came right down to it, they could not even best the cubs I had personally trained. They sure did have the talk down though. Copies of the same broken records but impressive sounding nonetheless.

 

[MrBoat]

Paul
I see by a simple post you have generated many sparks. Sparks are part of the daily grind of a welder (ooh, double pun), but not necessarily what you may have expected. I appreciated what you had to say, exactly as you said it. Keep updating your experiences and your DIY projects. I may yet jump in and build a pair just because of your example.

All in fun. I get where they are coming from. I appreciate it even. Just trying to shake some of the starch loose from just about everything that is supposed to be enjoyable.