Help with surround placements

[dgilling]

I think i'm pretty much stuck with my surrounds in the ceiling. I have one pillar that I plan to wrap in stone veneer. I could place a surround speaker on that. However, to set a speaker directly across from that it would be in an awkward spot in between my columns. I never intended to mount my speakers in my columns so they're not really big enough. What do you guys think. I'm okay with in-ceiling to get the best looking, but I'd rather buy regular surrounds. Everyone says the sound is better and then I don't have sound transfer to upper floor. I'm also thinking about SVS Prime speakers and I wouldn't know what speakers to get with them to match the sound if I go with in-ceiling. On the rear channels I can place them on the wall, but I think my surrounds need to be in the the ceiling. See attached photos. I don't have an east wall since it's an open basement design.

For a little background
I plan to build a stage up front, raised seating, running 7.1 and I haven't decided between SVS Prime or Aperion Intimus.

The expansion joint on the concrete is basically in the middle of the pillar. That's where a speaker would go on the wall across from it.


Pillar is to cover the lally column, not the best to work with


I'm doing a step ceiling for a rope light and theres not much room between the steps. I have an old house with pretty low ceilings so I'm doing my best with what I have to work with.

 

[yepimonfire]

Hard to tell what would work because with no seating and narrow angle pictures I can't really get a good idea of what you're dealing with room wise. Can you sketch up an MS paint diagram? In ceiling is the worst option, surround channels are not designed to come from above, if worse comes to worse just place them on stands that are height adjustable.
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[dgilling]

Hard to tell what would work because with no seating and narrow angle pictures I can't really get a good idea of what you're dealing with room wise. Can you sketch up an MS paint diagram? In ceiling is the worst option, surround channels are not designed to come from above, if worse comes to worse just place them on stands that are height adjustable.
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attached is my layout. it's pretty good on scale. i haven't measured out the seating perfectly but it will be close to that.

 

[j_garcia]

You chose the speaker layout shown in that sketch based on looks, that's not ideal for sound. Sub in the center of the front wall in an open space isn't going to give you good sound and you've taken up the two front corners with cabinets. For a large space like that, you will probably need two subs, possibly in the front left and/or rear left corners.

Back surrounds can go on or in wall on the back wall. The side surrounds will be an issue and in ceiling along side where you have the second level seating will work best for the front row, but may sound a little odd for the second. Presumably, you will primarily use the front row?

 

[dgilling]

You chose the speaker layout shown in that sketch based on looks, that's not ideal for sound. Sub in the center of the front wall in an open space isn't going to give you good sound and you've taken up the two front corners with cabinets. For a large space like that, you will probably need two subs, possibly in the front left and/or rear left corners.

Back surrounds can go on or in wall on the back wall. The side surrounds will be an issue and in ceiling along side where you have the second level seating will work best for the front row, but may sound a little odd for the second. Presumably, you will primarily use the front row?

I do plan to run two subs. Either corner to corner or both of them against the west wall. You are correct, the primary use will be be the front seats for a long time. we have two very young kids so the most use will be the wife and I. I see your logic that it's a big room and hard to produce the best sound, but there's no reason it can't be "good" sound. Besides, I'm not going for the best, if I was my budget would be more than $2000 for speakers. I just looking for what's the best i can do with an open layout, and a descent set of upgrades.

I've attached a new layout with where I think the subs will go.

 

[j_garcia]

I'd go with the side surrounds slightly behind, if not between the two couches unless you intend to do an ATMOS setup. That's how a friend of mine did it and it actually sounded good, though all 4 surrounds were in ceiling.

 

[dgilling]

I'd go with the side surrounds slightly behind, if not between the two couches unless you intend to do an ATMOS setup. That's how a friend of mine did it and it actually sounded good, though all 4 surrounds were in ceiling.

I don't plan to do ATMOS any time soon. AVR isn't compatible and I don't see the need at the moment.

the joist bay that would put the side surrounds slightly behind the front seat might be taken up by HVAC which would push them slightly more behind if i was to go further. Or, I can push everything forward.

 

[j_garcia]

Was going to say, if you could get it inside or on the column, that might be a good spot, especially if bi/dipole.

I don't really see the point of Atmos at home either.

 

[yepimonfire]

I would add a second set of surrounds, place one to the sides of the back seats, and one to the sides of the front seats. Does the avr have preouts? If not, you could either wire two 8ohm speakers in parallel, which may be a heavy load for the receiver depending on the impedance curve of the speakers, ir wire them in series. Having surrounds in front of the back seats would really mess up the sound stage, especially if you're playing back something that's only 5.1 and not using matrixing to derive rear channels. Bipoles might work, but it's still going to be obvious the sound is originating from in front of the rear seats. Theaters have multiple surrounds for this very reason. You might also need two subs. In my experience placing subs in a room with open spaces requires the subs be near an area with three boundaries otherwise there will be a lot of cancellation and notches in the response. I would place them on the left side of the room with in the front and back corners, you might have to experiment with placement.

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[dgilling]

I would add a second set of surrounds, place one to the sides of the back seats, and one to the sides of the front seats. Does the avr have preouts? If not, you could either wire two 8ohm speakers in parallel, which may be a heavy load for the receiver depending on the impedance curve of the speakers, ir wire them in series. Having surrounds in front of the back seats would really mess up the sound stage, especially if you're playing back something that's only 5.1 and not using matrixing to derive rear channels. Bipoles might work, but it's still going to be obvious the sound is originating from in front of the rear seats. Theaters have multiple surrounds for this very reason. You might also need two subs. In my experience placing subs in a room with open spaces requires the subs be near an area with three boundaries otherwise there will be a lot of cancellation and notches in the response. I would place them on the left side of the room with in the front and back corners, you might have to experiment with placement.

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that is some good insight. I'm using a Yamaha RX830. So yes it does have pre-outs. Would I need an amp to use the preouts or could I just run RCA's? The amp is good to 6ohm but I don't know about 4ohm. I'm not sure if I understand "bipole" speakers. do they make in ceiling bipole speakers?

I do plan to use two subs, and place them where you have suggested.

 

[yepimonfire]

that is some good insight. I'm using a Yamaha RX830. So yes it does have pre-outs. Would I need an amp to use the preouts or could I just run RCA's? The amp is good to 6ohm but I don't know about 4ohm. I'm not sure if I understand "bipole" speakers. do they make in ceiling bipole speakers?

I do plan to use two subs, and place them where you have suggested.

Forget in ceiling speaks unless you plan on using atmos. Using a second amp rather than wiring two sets of speakers to one amplifier is a better idea. While it's unlikely to cook the amp, it would probably drag down the performance of all the channels, considering a 105dB peak would now be drawing as much as 200 watts just for the surrounds. Since this is just for surrounds, a low cost 2 channel amplifier would suffice. Parts express has a nice 75wpc rms amp for about $150 that can be bridged to a mono block for 150wpc, assuming the surrounds are placed close to the seating position that's probably unnecessary though.

Bipoles are basically two speakers in one box firing in opposite directions off axis. They make the surround field more diffuse and amorphous, a lot of the sound from them arrives at the listener as reflected sound, the major drawback to this is it screws up the imaging of intentionally placed directional sounds, rain and wind might sound good but someone knocking on the door from behind wouldn't. These would work well for multiple rows of seating in the same area of the room but considering the distance between the seating locations in your theater and the open wall at the main listening position it probably wouldn't work.

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