Gotta Make You Wonder

[sterling shoote]

I saw that a high-end audio manufacture has a turntable that sells for about $170,000.00. It made me wonder, since my close to 40 year old Sony PS-4750 with Shure V15V-MR cartridge, which cost possibly $600.00 for the whole outfit, sounds indistinguishable to me from my SACD player, when playing music which I have on both LP, as well as SACD. Am I missing something? Would such a purchase actually yield a more enjoyable result? After all, if my turntable/cartridge, which appears to be retrieving/delivering everything on a record as it was recorded, what's the point of spending more if you are not getting more?

 

[vsound5150]

That turntable probably needs to be paired with $500,000 speakers and a $1Mil treated room to sound any good. But then again we throw our $500 turntables in the same room and speakers and it will sound awesome.

I picked up a 1980 Denon DP-60L turntable for $300 just for fun to spin some vinyl at home and later saw this one on eBay new in the box going for $12,000 Denon DP-59L. Does make you wonder.

 

[Bucknekked]

I saw that a high-end audio manufacture has a turntable that sells for about $170,000.00. It made me wonder, since my close to 40 year old Sony PS-4750 with Shure V15V-MR cartridge, which cost possibly $600.00 for the whole outfit, sounds indistinguishable to me from my SACD player, when playing music which I have on both LP, as well as SACD. Am I missing something? Would such a purchase actually yield a more enjoyable result? After all, if my turntable/cartridge, which appears to be retrieving/delivering everything on a record as it was recorded, what's the point of spending more if you are not getting more?

Wonders never cease ! There are audio enthusiasts that have endless enthusiasm and endless amounts of cash for their hobby. I would seriously doubt whether any single component added to your existing system would improve audible results just because it was expensive. Price, beyond a certain threshold of sanity, is no indication of audible quality.

 

[killdozzer]

Wonders never cease ! There are audio enthusiasts that have endless enthusiasm and endless amounts of cash for their hobby. I would seriously doubt whether any single component added to your existing system would improve audible results just because it was expensive. Price, beyond a certain threshold of sanity, is no indication of audible quality.

You're so polite to call them "audio enthusiasts with an endless enthusiasm" (Or perhaps you're being sarcastic) I think that in a price like 170,000.00$ "everything audio" ended somewhere around few thousands. After that it shouldn't be called audio, we should come with some other word. It's not about diminishING, all the returns diminishED long before that price point.

 

[3db]

Turntables are a funny thing and generally, the more expensive the table (keeping all things manual) the quieter the playback and the more accurate the tracking of the stylus in the record groove. Does it have to be $170K expensive, hell no!! At that price point, the piece becomes audio jewelry and any audible improvements have LONG since vanished in diminishing returns.

 

[sterling shoote]

Turntables are a funny thing and generally, the more expensive the table (keeping all things manual) the quieter the playback and the more accurate the tracking of the stylus in the record groove. Does it have to be $170K expensive, hell no!! At that price point, the piece becomes audio jewelry and any audible improvements have LONG since vanished in diminishing returns.

I've looked at buying a new turntable; but, since LP's in general don't seem to sound better than SACD, the only purpose I can see for a turntable today is to play and/or digitize LP's which are not re-purchasable on CD or SACD. Now, although I have a relatively large collection of LP's, and, have digitized many, the time it takes to digitize is just not worth it, especially when a re-purchase on CD or SACD will assure a snap, crackle, and pop free listening experience. BTW, do you get the sense that your turntable/cartridge is retrieving the most from your records? I get the sense that my turntable is getting me as much as there is to get. It's another reason my looking into a new turntable may not produce a purchase.

 

[3db]

I've looked at buying a new turntable; but, since LP's in general don't seem to sound better than SACD, the only purpose I can see for a turntable today is to play and/or digitize LP's which are not re-purchasable on CD or SACD. Now, although I have a relatively large collection of LP's, and, have digitized many, the time it takes to digitize is just not worth it, especially when a re-purchase on CD or SACD will assure a snap, crackle, and pop free listening experience. BTW, do you get the sense that your turntable/cartridge is retrieving the most from your records? I get the sense that my turntable is getting me as much as there is to get. It's another reason my looking into a new turntable may not produce a purchase.

I have a decent table as you see in my signature file and it sounds good. However, I firmly believe that I would hear improvement if I got a table in the $1500 to $2000 not including the cartridge. I've upgraded my cartridge once already and it sounded better to me.. less record noise in the background because of the upgrade. I could get a more expensive cartridge still but I rather have a a better table to take advantage of it.

 

[slipperybidness]

I have a decent table as you see in my signature file and it sounds good. However, I firmly believe that I would hear improvement if I got a table in the $1500 to $2000 not including the cartridge. I've upgraded my cartridge once already and it sounded better to me.. less record noise in the background because of the upgrade. I could get a more expensive cartridge still but I rather have a a better table to take advantage of it.

Yup, see my avatar pic, Pro-Ject Debut Carbon. It is nice and looks really nice, but it is definitely an entry level TT. I have no doubts that moving up to $1000 TT would offer substantial improvements.

The Pro-Ject Debut Carbon is easily out-performed by my Technics SL-1210!

 

[killdozzer]

less record noise in the background because of the upgrade

Don't mind me saying, this sounds very strange. Almost as if a cartridge knew what is meant to be in the song and what is a smudge crackle or sumthin'. Even a simply less sensitive needle wouldn't suffice as not all record noise is of the same sensitivity.

How is this even possible, what do you think? - Since the very logic behind getting sound out of a record is "something sensitive hitting some obstacles and scratching along side of something... well, relatively speaking rough.

 

[3db]

Cartridges use different styli geometry and different compliances of the shaft connecting the stylus to the cartridge. That's where the differences occur. Frequency response (20 to 20 KHz +/- xx db) of the cartridge also plays a factor.

 

[Bucknekked]

Don't mind me saying, this sounds very strange. Almost as if a cartridge knew what is meant to be in the song and what is a smudge crackle or sumthin'. Even a simply less sensitive needle wouldn't suffice as not all record noise is of the same sensitivity.

How is this even possible, what do you think? - Since the very logic behind getting sound out of a record is "something sensitive hitting some obstacles and scratching along side of something... well, relatively speaking rough.

killdozzer
I love topics like this one because there isn't a technically correct answer and a generally accepted incorrect answer. This puts it squarely in the realm of personal preference and subjectivity.

Killdozzer, from the all digital point of view a TT is a device where you take a piece of rock, tie it to something called a tonearm, drop that rock on to a spinning piece of plastic, and let that rock drag through some grooves cut in to the plastic. If everything lines up ok, that rock will scratch against the plastic and make some noise. Then a miracle occurs, and sound comes out your speakers.

Believe it or not, there are audio enthusiasts who love it this way. I added a new TT back in to my system last year. I hadn't used a TT in so long I don't even remember when I used one last. I rather enjoy the experience using a TT rather than saying I prefer the sound of a TT. I have nothing negative to say about a new TT spinning new vinyl. I grew up doing that. But for what I listen to day in and day out, I prefer the all digital stuff.

No harm no foul to the TT enthusiasts. I get it.

 

[killdozzer]

@3db thanks!

@Bucknekked you got me all wrong. I wasn't expressing an attitude towards TT's, positive or negative. But as I said; if hitting a grove makes a sound, how can you achieve a needle not reproducing some of it and reproducing the rest? But, 3db explained or at least gave me something to check upon.

I don't like conversations where everyone is just saying what they like or what they don't like. I wasn't even gonna write that I don't like conversations like that.

 

[Bucknekked]

@3db thanks!

@Bucknekked you got me all wrong. I wasn't expressing an attitude towards TT's, positive or negative. But as I said; if hitting a grove makes a sound, how can you achieve a needle not reproducing some of it and reproducing the rest? But, 3db explained or at least gave me something to check upon.

I don't like conversations where everyone is just saying what they like or what they don't like. I wasn't even gonna write that I don't like conversations like that.

If I have slighted you in the least amount, my humble apologies. I only offer my observations on the world, however imperfectly I see it. I hope your honorable name is still unbesmirched.

I hope to return to your good graces in another thread where I posted a response. I don't know exactly how to point you there or I would. Hopefully that response will atone for this last one about TT's.

 

[lovinthehd]

@3db thanks!

@Bucknekked you got me all wrong. I wasn't expressing an attitude towards TT's, positive or negative. But as I said; if hitting a grove makes a sound, how can you achieve a needle not reproducing some of it and reproducing the rest? But, 3db explained or at least gave me something to check upon.

I don't like conversations where everyone is just saying what they like or what they don't like. I wasn't even gonna write that I don't like conversations like that.

From some reading I've done on that point apparently some phono stages may dispose with the extraneous noises better than others, doubt it's just the cartridge/stylus having as much effect in this regard. I've not had great differences in surface noise on many different cartridges, all just highly competent, not particularly high end like in the thousands of dollars range which would freak me out just using such, I could easily bump the arm and send it skittering across the record!

 

[mtrycrafts]

I saw that a high-end audio manufacture has a turntable that sells for about $170,000.00. ...

You mean this?
http://www.needledoctor.com/Clearaudio-Statement-Turntable

 

[lovinthehd]

In looking around found this list, number one is way more than that Clearaudio.... All seem more about the owner's masculinity than anything else

 

[Bucknekked]

In looking around found this list, number one is way more than that Clearaudio.... All seem more about the owner's masculinity than anything else

I heard monoblock amplifiers were related to small penis syndrome from another AH thread.
I wonder what the male shortcoming is for a overly expensive TT ?

(please. no hate mail from the monoblock crowd. I am sure you're size is fine)

 

[lovinthehd]

I heard monoblock amplifiers were related to small penis syndrome from another AH thread.
I wonder what the male shortcoming is for a overly expensive TT ?

(please. no hate mail from the monoblock crowd. I am sure you're size is fine)

Then there are these speakers Not that maybe I wouldn't mind testing these guys out for a few days but then I'd need my room back....

 

[TLS Guy]

I saw that a high-end audio manufacture has a turntable that sells for about $170,000.00. It made me wonder, since my close to 40 year old Sony PS-4750 with Shure V15V-MR cartridge, which cost possibly $600.00 for the whole outfit, sounds indistinguishable to me from my SACD player, when playing music which I have on both LP, as well as SACD. Am I missing something? Would such a purchase actually yield a more enjoyable result? After all, if my turntable/cartridge, which appears to be retrieving/delivering everything on a record as it was recorded, what's the point of spending more if you are not getting more?

It could well sound a lot worse. A lot of these turntables are designed and built by unbalanced lunatics. They concentrate on one issue which may or may not be significant and often badly and stupidly design core functions. They look fancy though.

You are using what I think was the best phono cartridge ever made. I really don't believe there has been a better one before or since. I think you paid a bit more than you said though, as I don't remember those cartridges selling for less than $500 and they were more than that at the end of the run. Optimal arm is the SME series III which was designed to be synergistic with the Shire V 15 series.

To be honest I don't think you can get better than a Shure V 15 xmr in an SME series III arm on a good turntable like a Thorens TD 125. I don't think you will best that no matter how much you spend.

Shure V15 xmr on SME Series III arm.

 

[killdozzer]

If I have slighted you in the least amount, my humble apologies. I only offer my observations on the world, however imperfectly I see it. I hope your honorable name is still unbesmirched.

I hope to return to your good graces in another thread where I posted a response. I don't know exactly how to point you there or I would. Hopefully that response will atone for this last one about TT's.

Oh maaan... No need for that. I never lived a day with my name unbesmirched. You came with a response that was defusing in nature, which immediately made me wanna say that I wasn't attacking.

Just that.

Follow these steps:

- open the thread you're talking about - copy the content from the address bar of your browser - go back to where you want to post it - type the name for the link, like; "this thread" - mark that blue with your pointer cursor - click this tool above the post window:

paste the url that you coppied earlier from your address bar, voila

If you choose to do it without coming up with a name for the link it'll work anyway, you'll just get a complete url pasted into your post but it will be "clickable".

kd