YAMAHA RX-A3060 vs Onkyo TX-RZ1100

[Neurona]

Hi guys.

I'm about to change my AV Receiver, after some research I'm between the Yamaha RX-A3060 and the Onkyo TX-RZ1100. Any ideas?

Thanks!

 

[lovinthehd]

Okay......why are you between those two? Not much to go on here....

 

[Neurona]

Okay......why are you between those two? Not much to go on here....

Specs mainly. So, I'm not sure which one has better build and sound quality.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yamaha supposedly has a lead in the reliability ratings within the industry; Onkyo a few years back had some serious hdmi/network board issues that seem to have been resolved in newer units. Sound quality should be great with both units; programs like YPAO and AccuEQ or manual eq can have a bearing on it (and from most reports I'd go with YPAO, altho prefer Audyssey myself). Specs overall are fairly similar. Power among avrs is more similar than different (consider that it takes a doubling of power to gain merely 3dB spl). Mostly about what you need in the way of features connectivity and maybe zone/amp assignments.

What speakers will you be using?

What avr have you been using and what does it not have that you're looking for in the new avr?

 

[Suthar]

Go with Denon if you plan to use external amps. I had Denon 2313ci, tried x4200w then went to Yamaha RX-A3060 thinking it's better... recently learned the pre-out voltages are low on Yamaha. The 3060 is an ok AVR, Denon has way more features and it sounded more full in my perspective.
Trust me test out before you settle, I was out of my return window otherwise I would have returned the Yamaha.


Martin Logan 60XT, 50XT, FX, Dynamo 1000, 500
Yamaha RX-A3060
Denon 2313CI

 

[Suthar]

Go with Denon if you plan to use external amps. I had Denon 2313ci, tried x4200w then went to Yamaha RX-A3060 thinking it's better... recently learned the pre-out voltages are low on Yamaha. The 3060 is an ok AVR, Denon has way more features and it sounded more full in my perspective.
Trust me test out before you settle, I was out of my return window otherwise I would have returned the Yamaha.

Btw Gene mentioned he was getting 4Vrms unclipped on Denon/Marantz, Yamaha was down to 1.5vrms on the low end Aventage.
I spoke to Yamaha Canada and they stated 1Vrms for the 3060.



Martin Logan 60XT, 50XT, FX, Dynamo 1000, 500
Yamaha RX-A3060
Denon 2313CI

Martin Logan 60XT, 50XT, FX, Dynamo 1000, 500
Yamaha RX-A3060
Denon 2313CI

 

[Neurona]

I currently have a Yamaha (but it's almost 15 years old ) So, no more excuses for getting a new one. Regarding speakers, I'm going to change them as well, I saw some bowers and wilkins but I'm going to try several models first, to see which ones suit the AV

 

[PENG]

Between the two I would take the RX-A3060. If you are open to D&M, then AVR-X4200W (last year model) seems to offer the best value at the moment.

 

[MaverickLS7]

I can't speak for the others to compare, but I have the 3060. I'm also using 2 ext amps - 1 amp for the front L/R speakers and 1 amp for my 2 center speakers. The surrounds, rears , rear heights, and front heights run off of the 3060. I don't have a problem with anything.

 

[PENG]

I can't speak for the others to compare, but I have the 3060. I'm also using 2 ext amps - 1 amp for the front L/R speakers and 1 amp for my 2 center speakers. The surrounds, rears , rear heights, and front heights run off of the 3060. I don't have a problem with anything.

The pre out specs, like the power consumption specs, can be very misleading for the average users because of their technical nature and the fact that there don't seem to be consistency in the way manufacturer based their specified figures. As I mentioned before, one has to refer to figures measured in bench tests such as those done in S&V and AH's labs, and based on many such results, high end Yamaha receivers should be able to output voltages higher than what is needed to drive most power amps to their rated output.

 

[Suthar]

The pre out specs, like the power consumption specs, can be very misleading for the average users because of their technical nature and the fact that there don't seem to be consistency in the way manufacturer based their specified figures. As I mentioned before, one has to refer to figures measured in bench tests such as those done in S&V and AH's labs, and based on many such results, high end Yamaha receivers should be able to output voltages higher than what is needed to drive most power amps to their rated output.

Sorry to repeat but here is what Gene said when I asked the question since they actually do testing on amplifiers:

"Audioholics
The low end Aventage barely puts out 1.5Vrms unclipped. It's really unfortunate. Denon/Marantz preouts I've tested in the past put out 4Vrms unclipped. Check the gain of the amp you plan on buying to make sure it will achieve max gain with 1.5Vrms and you should be ok."

Just speaking from sources that test the equipment.



Martin Logan 60XT, 50XT, FX, Dynamo 1000, 500
Yamaha RX-A3060
Denon 2313CI

 

[PENG]

Sorry to repeat but here is what Gene said when I asked the question since they actually do testing on amplifiers:

"Audioholics
The low end Aventage barely puts out 1.5Vrms unclipped. It's really unfortunate. Denon/Marantz preouts I've tested in the past put out 4Vrms unclipped. Check the gain of the amp you plan on buying to make sure it will achieve max gain with 1.5Vrms and you should be ok."

Just speaking from sources that test the equipment.



Martin Logan 60XT, 50XT, FX, Dynamo 1000, 500
Yamaha RX-A3060
Denon 2313CI

You seem to latch on to one thing Gene tested/commented and if it was a low end Advantage then okay that's one I missed, but in my mind I was thinking about the 3010 through 3060 that the OP is talking about. I don't think Gene has tested the newer models so the one you referred to may be some much older and lower end models.

In another test, Gene also said the following:

"We tested the preamp section of the Yamaha RX-V2600 and were able to drive over 4V RMS. This is a welcome change for Yamaha as prior models such as the RX-V2400 and RX-V2500 weren't even able to achieve 2V RMS unclipped. Max input voltage before clipping was a whopping 4.550Vrms. This means you can pretty much drive any power amp on the market to full power, without the Yamaha preamp section adding any unwanted harmonic distortion."

Regardless, my point was mainly about the lack of details in the pre-out voltage specs put out by D&M, Yamaha. D&M just say rated output 1.2V, while Yamaha recently starting to include the load impedance such as 1V/470 ohm. Still confusing, because power amps do have relatively high input impedance so does that mean we can expect the 3060 do 3V or more into a power amp that has input impedance much higher than 470 ohms? That's why I think people should not assume Denon's "rated output: 1.2V" is automatically better than Yamaha's 1V/470 ohm.

Yamaha seems to be the only (or among the few) main stay AVRs that come with preouts in the lower end models (below the 1000 series) don't even provide pre outs until you get to their 3000 series models. I have an old lower end RX-V659 that has preouts but I really don't know from which newest RX-A model you get preouts in their newest lineup.

Update: I revisited the most recent AH review on Yamaha AVR and below is one on the 3000 series.

http://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/rx-a3000/rx-a3000-conclusion

Yamaha RX-A3000 Preamplifier Measurements

I did some quick spot-checking on the RX-A3000 pre-amplifier gain structure to ensure it could be properly drive a wide assortment of power amplifier. My personal criteria for amplifier gain structure is that it should be able to hit full power when driven with 2Vrms. The RX-A3000 was able to deliver 3.3Vrms unclipped out of the analog multi channel outputs. Once I exceeded this output level, the auto protection circuits shut the receiver down. This is more than enough clean output voltage to drive any audio amplifier to clipping