Is it time to replace my trusty Yamaha RX-V757?

[insignia]

Hi all,

My current come theater consists of the following:

• Yamaha RX-V757 AV receiver.
• Panasonic DMP-BDT500 Blu-ray player.
• Wharfedale speakers (6 Ohm impedance): front R/L - Diamond 9.4 floorstanders, center - Diamond 9.CS, back R/L - Diamond 9.DFS bipolar, and Diamond SW150 subwoofer.
• Panasonic TX-P42GT50Y plasma TV.

I'm looking for a replacement to my 10-year old receiver. I have to say that I've been completely satisfied with this receiver, I haven't had a single issue with it. Its 100W per channel power is more than enough for my needs and it sounds equally good with movies and music. It has plenty of functions, customizations and inputs, not to mention that its remote control is programmable and replaces all my other remotes.

The reasons for replacement:

1. It doesn't decode Dolby TrueHD and DTS-MA audio formats. My Blu-ray player handles decoding and feeds the audio to the receiver via multi-channel analog inputs. But there's a slight problem with this approach. My subwoofer has a highest cut-off frequency of 85Hz and I believe that my Blu-ray player has a cut-off frequency at 100Hz so there is at least 15Hz gap.
2. It doesn't decode new audio formats such as Dolby Atmos and DTS:X.

So the idea is to get a new AV receiver that natively decodes all new audio formats without sacrificing audio quality in movies or music. Is it realistic with my current budget of €800? I'm still gathering information and these are my initial thoughts: Denon AVR-X2300W, Yamaha RX-A750, Yamaha RX-V781. Which one of these would be better in terms of audio quality in movies and music (network features are not as important)? One more thing to note, my speakers are somewhat laid back. I listen to a variety of music so I'm looking for a receiver capable of handling this variety with equal ease. Due to my positive experience with my current receiver, I naturally lean towards Yamahas. I know what to expect and they would be easy to setup. But I'm also ready to learn new equipment. Are there any better options for my budget? Any suggestions are welcome.

 

[j_garcia]

New sub or new blu-ray player lol. Yes, to get DTS-HD, X and TrueHD and Atmos, I'd say it is time to upgrade.

15hz won't leave you with a gap, maybe a dip, because an x-over is not a brick wall.

 

[lovinthehd]

Well, no 15hz gap if you set your sub properly to allow the avr to control the crossover. From your sub's description: "In each model it is possible to switch off all filters and allow the AV processor to control the effective frequency range of the subwoofer"

ps But may not be possible with your analog in now that I think about that a bit, sorry

 

[insignia]

Well, no 15hz gap if you set your sub properly to allow the avr to control the crossover. From your sub's description: "In each model it is possible to switch off all filters and allow the AV processor to control the effective frequency range of the subwoofer"

ps But may not be possible with your analog in now that I think about that a bit, sorry

Exactly, analog inputs bypass all AV processor controls. All settings are handled by the Blu-ray player and receiver only amplifies the signal.

 

[lovinthehd]

Exactly, analog inputs bypass all AV processor controls. All settings are handled by the Blu-ray player and receiver only amplifies the signal.

Didn't see much in the manual on the output details of the br player, but it may have a filter on the LFE channel and even if it doesn't the LFE channel has limited content anyways and I'd still set my sub to no filter.

As to the sq question, think it more boils down to what dsp you prefer. I like the Audyssey in Denons, better sub eq as well.

 

[insignia]

Didn't see much in the manual on the output details of the br player, but it may have a filter on the LFE channel and even if it doesn't the LFE channel has limited content anyways and I'd still set my sub to no filter.

As to the sq question, think it more boils down to what dsp you prefer. I like the Audyssey in Denons, better sub eq as well.

It's not possible to switch off filters on this particular subwoofer. The blu-ray player doesn't have a filter on LFE channel either.

As for dsp, I can't say I have a preference. I've owned only one receiver and I have no experience with any other manufacturer. That's why I'm asking for advice from more experienced people. And one of the considerations is what receiver to pair with my speakers (if I want to brighten them up).

 

[j_garcia]

Yamaha has tended to be the flattest, almost bright, brand in my experience.

Component selection isn't the right way to get speakers to sound how you want, so just buy a good receiver. Auto-EQs will flatten them out anyway. I liked the sound of the Wharfedales.

 

[lovinthehd]

It's not possible to switch off filters on this particular subwoofer. The blu-ray player doesn't have a filter on LFE channel either.

As for dsp, I can't say I have a preference. I've owned only one receiver and I have no experience with any other manufacturer. That's why I'm asking for advice from more experienced people. And one of the considerations is what receiver to pair with my speakers (if I want to brighten them up).

With LFE content only not a big deal or is there some bass management in the player I missed?

Yamaha has YPAO and their dsp modes, Denon has Audyssey and their dsp modes. Just a preference thing. Both YPAO and Audyssey have multiple versions, too. The Denon also has extended tweaking of Audyssey with an app.

 

[insignia]

With LFE content only not a big deal or is there some bass management in the player I missed?

Yamaha has YPAO and their dsp modes, Denon has Audyssey and their dsp modes. Just a preference thing. Both YPAO and Audyssey have multiple versions, too. The Denon also has extended tweaking of Audyssey with an app.

There's no bass management in this player. None of the versions of the firmware ever provided one. Actually, for some reason the setup doesn't even have a separate calibration signal for the subwoofer nor is it possible to adjust the delay/distance for the sub. I tried to reach Panasonic on this issue as well as find out what crossover frequency they use but I couldn't get clear answers. So for multi-channel analog output I used calibration setup from Digital Video Essentials' HD Basics Blu-ray disc and Radioshack analog sound pressure meter. And I just assume that my player has a crossover frequency set at 100Hz based on what I've read in forums.

I was quite satisfied with Yamaha's YPAO but I used it as a base level setup and then had to tune or change a few settings that seemed to be incorrect. I know that Yamaha now has more advanced YPAO and those two models also implement multipoint measurement. As for DSP modes, I almost never used them. I've always had a feeling that they distort the sound more than they give any meaningful benefits. So I've always used either STRAIGHT (for surround sound) or PURE DIRECT (for 2-channel stereo) modes and I don't seem to care much about those modes. Between YPAO and Audyssey, I would prefer the one that gives the most accurate adjustment. Reliability is also quite an important factor. At least for now to me it looks like people have more issues with that Denon model than with Yamahas in general. If I'm wrong then please correct me.

 

[insignia]

What I'd like to know is whether it's possible to find a substitute for my ageing receiver equivalent in terms of sound quality with my current budget. The idea is not to get all the new audio decoding for the cost of sound quality. My current receiver is quite a big, almost square, and heavy unit at 12.5kg and I assume it's also an indication of beefy power circuits. Can those models that I've already considered match my current receiver in terms of sound quality? Should I consider some other alternatives as well? Or to get the same quality requires bigger budget?

 

[lovinthehd]

There's no bass management in this player. None of the versions of the firmware ever provided one. Actually, for some reason the setup doesn't even have a separate calibration signal for the subwoofer nor is it possible to adjust the delay/distance for the sub. I tried to reach Panasonic on this issue as well as find out what crossover frequency they use but I couldn't get clear answers. So for multi-channel analog output I used calibration setup from Digital Video Essentials' HD Basics Blu-ray disc and Radioshack analog sound pressure meter. And I just assume that my player has a crossover frequency set at 100Hz based on what I've read in forums.

I was quite satisfied with Yamaha's YPAO but I used it as a base level setup and then had to tune or change a few settings that seemed to be incorrect. I know that Yamaha now has more advanced YPAO and those two models also implement multipoint measurement. As for DSP modes, I almost never used them. I've always had a feeling that they distort the sound more than they give any meaningful benefits. So I've always used either STRAIGHT (for surround sound) or PURE DIRECT (for 2-channel stereo) modes and I don't seem to care much about those modes. Between YPAO and Audyssey, I would prefer the one that gives the most accurate adjustment. Reliability is also quite an important factor. At least for now to me it looks like people have more issues with that Denon model than with Yamahas in general. If I'm wrong then please correct me.

Your player doesn't sound like it would have any crossover at all without bass management; it may have a low pass filter on the sub channel and since the LFE channel is usually limited to 120hz perhaps it's as high as that.

What did you find YPAO did "incorrectly"? Last I saw from mcode the Yamaha's were at the top of the industry reliability surveys so there's that. The newest versions of YPAO supposedly eq subs better now than in past years, but Audyssey does so in more of its versions than YPAO as far as I've seen. The Denon amp section may be a bit more robust but not too significant. Other than the different dsp modes, I'd think its just a matter of preference for feature set and price as far as major differences go.

 

[insignia]

Your player doesn't sound like it would have any crossover at all without bass management; it may have a low pass filter on the sub channel and since the LFE channel is usually limited to 120hz perhaps it's as high as that.

What did you find YPAO did "incorrectly"? Last I saw from mcode the Yamaha's were at the top of the industry reliability surveys so there's that. The newest versions of YPAO supposedly eq subs better now than in past years, but Audyssey does so in more of its versions than YPAO as far as I've seen. The Denon amp section may be a bit more robust but not too significant. Other than the different dsp modes, I'd think its just a matter of preference for feature set and price as far as major differences go.

You may be right about low pass filter in my player.

YPAO detected my front R/L speakers as large. They're floor standing types but I prefer to send all low frequencies to the subwoofer that's better equipped to handle them. YPAO also set crossover frequency to 60Hz and I changed it to 80Hz to take some load off the amplifier. Then there were some tiny discrepancies in detecting the distance to each speaker, which I also corrected manually. That's about it.

 

[j_garcia]

The distance setting also affects phase and sound level, so it makes those adjustments to account for actual acoustic anomalies it thinks it hears. YPAO is not as good as Audessey IMO, but I'd listen to it with the settings it used before making changes.

When it makes your x-over lower or higher, it is because it found the best response to be with that setting. I did the same with my Emotiva, it set my x-over to 100 to achieve the smoothest response, but I lowered it to 80.

 

[insignia]

The distance setting also affects phase and sound level, so it makes those adjustments to account for actual acoustic anomalies. YPAO is not as good as Audessey IMO, but I'd listen to it with the settings it used before making changes.

That's a valid point, it didn't occur to me before. I'll be more careful in the future.

 

[lovinthehd]

You may be right about low pass filter in my player.

YPAO detected my front R/L speakers as large. They're floor standing types but I prefer to send all low frequencies to the subwoofer that's better equipped to handle them. YPAO also set crossover frequency to 60Hz and I changed it to 80Hz to take some load off the amplifier. Then there were some tiny discrepancies in detecting the distance to each speaker, which I also corrected manually. That's about it.

Audyssey equipped avrs will do that when detecting an f3 of 40hz, not sure about YPAO but imagine it's similar; Audyssey themselves didn't arrange that, that's the avr manufacturer overriding their recommendation. Marketing departments think its a bad idea to tell you your speakers are "small". As jgarcia said, the microphone will judge "distance" (aka delay) based on the acoustics it measures, particularly with subs this can be different than actual difference due to delay inherent in the sub amp's processing.