Critical eyes on $15K system and theater design

[tigershark]

Hi Everyone,

I've been reading like a madman on this site and others over the last few weeks to try to soak up as much as possible. I'm setting up a dedicated theater in the basement with dimensions 22x17x8 (see my crude room mockup image attached less speakers). I'm planning to put in an atmos 7.1.4 system. I would love your feedback on this setup.

Speakers
Center Aperion Versus II Grand Center ($649)
Sourrounds Aperion Versus II Grand Bookshelf x4 ($1,518)
Towers Aperion Versus II Grand Tower Speaker x2 ($2,318)
Overhead Aperion Intimus L6-IC x4 ($596)
Subwoofers Rythmik Audio FV15HP black matte finish x2 ($2,400)
SubTotal $7,481

Video and AV
Projector Epson Pro Cinema 6040UB ($3,398)
Surge Protector Panamax Panamax MR4300 ($167)
Amp Emotiva XPA-3 (3 channel amp) ($934)
Receiver Dennon AVR-X5200W ($1,238)
SubTotal $5,737

Other
Accoustic Treatments GIK accoustic Thttp://www.gikacoustics.com/ ($550)
AV Rack Peerless ($484)
Cables and Mounts ($250)
SubTotal $1,284

Total $14,502
Tax $870.12
Grand Total $15,372.06

I already have the home theater seats and a pretty new HTPC NAS storage. I also have a Logitech universal remote. If I could shave off a couple grand that would be ideal. I also worry I'm missing some costs somewhere.

Theater Design

I am thinking of putting in short glass panels in the back of the seats instead of the rail shown and also adding track lighting around the base of the platform. Open to pointers on room design too!

Please bring your feedback! I have the contractor showing up week after thanksgiving to start on room modifications.

 

[Pogre]

I am too much of a noob to give any good advice on that setup, but someone will be along with more knowledge than I.

I do know enough to know that how you have your funds allocated looks good as far as how you have it budgeted and those speakers are amazing.

 

[Mark of Cenla]

It certainly beats anything I will ever own, but I am just a public high school teacher after all. It looks like a mighty good system to me. Peace and goodwill.

 

[tigershark]

Thanks...anyone for improvement ideas?

 

[jinjuku]

I would:

Replace the Emotiva with two Crown XLS 1002 Drive Core amps at $600

I would go with in wall speakers like the Dayton Audio ME625W 6-1/2" 2 way at $400 for 4

I would go with the Dayton Audio ME620C 6-1/2 2 way in ceiling at $400

That nets you $2300 without taking a hit in any form in the SQ department.

Get a popcorn machine for $400: https://www.popcornsupply.com/funpop-4-oz-popcorn-machine-1

 

[KEW]

Will this also be used very often for listening to music?
What percent music vs HT? (such as 10% music/90% HT)

If for music, I would want to get better mains (whether you increase your budget or follow Jinjuku's advice on saving it elsewhere). The right gear (and he'd know which are right) from Crown and Dayton Audio can save you a lot of money without a loss of performance!

 

[everettT]

Have you considered some high power / dynamic speakers for the front stage like these?

http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/noesis-212ht/

 

[BMXTRIX]

I would not use Crown Drive Core amps in home theater. They are digital amps with commercial design, not really designed for home theater use. They have fans in them which increases the noise floor in the rooms they are used in, often being a bit noisy.

I like Crown a lot, but they aren't my first home theater choice.

1. Pick your rack location carefully, and ensure you have a lot of room for growth and proper access. I recommend that the rack location, if possible, be at the back of the room or even outside the room to isolate any lights and noise. You have a lot of gear, so make sure you have the room you need.

2. Make sure the rack location has plenty of ventilation. Heat is the number one killer of electronics.

3. Nothing wrong with Peerless, but make sure to really consider your location and setup for equipment. I often put rack rail into a wall which has rear access (like to a storage area),then put equipment onto rack shelves facing into the room, or under stairs, etc.

4. The projector is solid. It's the same as the 5040, except in black. Good model. I would also look at the JVC models slightly above that price point which will have better black levels.

5. You didn't mention a screen. You probably want one. In a good theater it should be white, and you don't have to spend a ton of cash on a good fixed frame screen. Screen size should be about 10" to 12" of diagonal for each foot of viewing distance.

6. No part of your ceiling should be white, or light grey. Storm cloud grey. Black trim... This is a theater, make sure it is all very dark for best results.

7. Pay VERY careful consideration to your lights. You do NOT have enough right now. No less than 3 lights across, and they should be zoned into no less than the following...
Zone 1 - 3 lights over the rear seating.
Zone 2 - 3 lights over the front seating.
Zone 3 - 6 lights towards the front of the theater.

8. All lights should be on dimmers. One dimmer per zone.

9. All lighting should be somewhat directional. Ceiling recessed lights towards the back of the room should cast light downward, not towards the front of the room. This allows them to be on, at a low level, while not impacting the screen significantly.

10. You can always turn lights down/off... You can't easily add lighting after construction is done. ADD LIGHTS NOW! This room is painted dark. It needs about twice as many lights as your family room needs to look 'bright' when the projector is off and you are trying to clean the room.

11. Dark carpet. Not light grey. Look at some theater carpets... You will see that they are all dark reds and blues and blacks. Once again, theaters ask for dark, not light. Anything light should be removed from the screen as far as possible.

12. Get a great projector mount. They will last a lifetime. The Cheif RPMAU is the best out there right now and will securely support about any consumer projector out there.
This is a GREAT price for one...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chief-Projector-Mount-RPMAU-/282251508056?hash=item41b7803958:g:a~QAAOSwWfFXkm~1

Sometimes they show up for under $100 on eBay, but not often, and there are ways to 'rig' other versions to make it work, but I would buy that right now if you can.

13. Make sure you have your windows 100% covered/blacked out during daytime use. Budget for appropriate shades/coverings.

I won't comment on audio, I think there are a ton of opinions out there on most of it, but I would be pretty happy with what you have listed.

 

[jinjuku]

I would not use Crown Drive Core amps in home theater. They are digital amps with commercial design, not really designed for home theater use. They have fans in them which increases the noise floor in the rooms they are used in, often being a bit noisy.

They are designed for amplification. Period. Also the fans don't normally run and even when they do you wouldn't hear it standing right in front of the amp.

I like Crown a lot, but they aren't my first home theater choice.

They are designed PRECISELY for installed sound use.

You 99% give stellar advice but you are not correct in the above.

 

[everettT]

They only time I have known the fan was on on my crown amp was when I noticed it spinning thru the mesh grill.

 

[tigershark]

Wow, lots of great feedback to digest. Few points/questions

* Inwall speakers for the surround? Aren't I going to sacrifice quite a bit of quality doing that? I actually put in the inwall speakers in the setup in my old house since it was also a living room. They look great but worry a bit ab out performance. Also, what about drawback of moving away from Aperion for matching speaker sound?

*My usage is going to be 90% theater and 10% music. I imagine myself settling in to listen to music but I think in practice it just won't happen a lot given it is a dedicated space instead of part of a broader living area.

*I am actually renovating an existing home theater room that was poorly designed. Sooo, wiring etc is a little trickier but this is an area I'm generally pretty handy with. It does have an existing 120 inch screen though that seems to be good quality. Plan is for All of the electronics will be in a separate room in a rack. the room is where my furnace and water heater is but it is quite a bit of room in there so it won't be cramped at all.

*Good call on the ceiling. I can paint it as it is currently white. Existing walls are dark burgandy (similar top photo and I wasn't planning on changing that. For lighting I actually have quite a bit more than shown in here and it is on a dimmer but unfortunately it isn't zoned. Not sure at this stage I can really change that without some serious rewiring. But, it is a smart idea.

*Love the tip on the projector mount. Will absolutely add that to my list.

I was thinking of putting curtains in the front around the screen to add a dampening affect up front. Does that make sense?

 

[jinjuku]

Wow, lots of great feedback to digest. Few points/questions

* Inwall speakers for the surround? Aren't I going to sacrifice quite a bit of quality doing that? I actually put in the inwall speakers in the setup in my old house since it was also a living room. They look great but worry a bit ab out performance. Also, what about drawback of moving away from Aperion for matching speaker sound?

I took the as of yet asked question into account. Surrounds are 'Ambience' speakers. They spend so little time in use that timbre matching simply isn't an issue. The AVR room correction routine is going to dial these in. They are designed to be painted with the same color that is going up on the wall.

With them being mounted in wall you have no baffle diffraction to worry about. the wall becomes an infinite baffle.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You have to pay almost $900 for taxes? Can't buy online?

If you set your speakers to SMALL, XO 80 Hz - 100Hz, let your dual subs do all the hard work, you may not even need the 3Ch amp. The Denon AVR may be just fine.

You can also wait on the room treatment until after all the furnitures, carpet/rugs, curtains are installed. You may not even need any treatments other than the natural room treatments.

 

[XEagleDriver]

Tigershark,
I did not see any responses to your question about potentially replacing the back railing with glass panels.
- IMHO that is not a good idea because the glass is a VERY reflective at high frequencies and create audio issues.
- Furthermore, with the back surrounds on the wall behind the railing, having a reflective glass surface between these speakers and the seats is not a good idea.
Stick with your original plan audio wise! Looks like a great project.

Cheers,
XEagleDriver

 

[tigershark]

@AcuDefTechGuy-- I think you raise some good points on the in walls. Let me sleep on this one. I hope you are right on the taxes. Seems like more and more online companies are asking for sales tax these days. Would love to save some $$ there too.


@EagleDriver-- Glass would look great but you are right. Just don't want to throw down some deck railing back there. I'll shop around and see what I can find that looks sharp.

 

[lovinthehd]

My first thought was why those speakers? Are these speakers you particularly like or have already? I'd think more along the lines of high sensitivity theater speakers. If the inwall thing isn't for you maybe look at these https://www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/speakers

@BMXTRIX the Crown amps are not digital amps (and what good would a digital amp do for analog speakers?) and work extremely well for home audio, altho I'd start with the 1502 rather than the 1002 for the snr advantage. Fans are very quiet (as in you'll not even notice them, even compared to a traditional home consumer type fanless amp). With high sensitivity speakers you likely won't need the amps at all, tho.

 

[KEW]

@AcuDefTechGuy-- I think you raise some good points on the in walls. Let me sleep on this one. I hope you are right on the taxes. Seems like more and more online companies are asking for sales tax these days. Would love to save some $$ there too.

Just to keep things straight,
Jinjuku was the one that made the points on the in-walls.
ADTG on taxes and using AVR instead of external amplification.

 

[BMXTRIX]

@BMXTRIX the Crown amps are not digital amps (and what good would a digital amp do for analog speakers?) and work extremely well for home audio, altho I'd start with the 1502 rather than the 1002 for the snr advantage.

Sorry, I meant that they are class 'D' amplifiers, my bad. Unfortunately, these are known for having issues when dealing with higher frequencies and introducing distortion. People who say amplifiers are amplifiers are just not correct. The S/N ratio is very good with the Crowns, but I'm not sure that's at all frequencies given, and I'm glad to hear that the newer models have quieter fans, since the older ones had very noisy fans. But, in a separate room as described, this is a non-issue.

I would be interested in a actual test of the Crown amps at various frequencies before I would jump on them for home theater use. By 'installed sound', Crown is talking about auditoriums and stadiums, not home theater. I work in installed sound, we use these types of products every single day, and they do very well. Yet, we also have seen Crown product fail over the years like anything else.

I think Audioholics does a good writeup which includes my concerns in blindly switching from a class 'H' (Emotiva) to a class 'D' amplifier.

http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/amplifier-classes

The XPA models also start at about twice the weight of the Crown amps, which I think does say something about build quality, which some people do care about. The look, the finish, and the overall build quality.

But, I'm not saying that Crown is bad, or a terrible choice or anything like that. I would just not jump in a second at a class 'D' amp over a class 'H' amp unless I found some reviews saying I'm not losing out on audible audio quality. I've had more than a few amps which pop and hiss, including models from Crown, which are corrected with different amps. But, I do consider Crown one of the best commercial models on the market.

 

[lovinthehd]

Seems you need to become more acquainted with the XLS Drivecore series (different from the previous XLS series fwiw). In several fora many have had very good experiences with these amps save for a few with very high sensitivity speakers where hiss became an issue (but so did other "home" "audiophile" amps with such speakers).

XPA amps are passive class A/B so why compare weight with an actively cooled class D? Am I missing something here?

I've got four XLS1500 amps myself, use/used them both for speakers and subs. Good units. No issues with high frequencies I encountered. What are the HF issues you're concerned about?

 

[BMXTRIX]

Emotivas are listed as class 'H' amps, which are a more efficient version of the A/B amp design. That said, my concern with Crown is that most people who are talking about them, own them, and have a vested interest in loving them.

I don't own Crown, or Emotiva. I think that since class 'D' amplifiers are susceptible to having issues at higher frequencies, that perhaps some actual independent lab results may be in order vs. word of mouth and advertised specifications.

As for weight... A lot can be said for overall build quality by the weight of the unit. A heavy amp doesn't mean better sound, but it could mean better build quality and durability over the years. Components put together with a better foundation. Not a big deal, but a small part of the overall picture.

My words are all meant to suggest that the original poster consider his options, not to suggest that Crown or Emotiva is the wrong/right way to go, but to not simply follow any recommendation given without a bit more homework on the matter.