Center Channel Subwoofer

[Kyle0910]

So what is the point in having a subwoofer in my center channel? I have a new 9060 center channel and it has a 8 inch powered subwoofer.

Is it overkill or are they trying to get me to run my center channel as large.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[shadyJ]

There is no sense in running your center channel as large. Not to be too critical of your system, but it is pointless to have a center channel which extends that low. If the built-in sub in the center speaker gives it more power above 80 Hz, that is fine, but below that frequency, it is senseless. The reason is having the center channel play in the subwoofer's range it can cause all kinds of phase issues with your subwoofer if your sub is set at 80. It will make integration much harder or impossible. If you have a good subwoofer, set all of your speakers to small, even if they are tower speakers.

Such a center channel might not be bad if you have no subwoofer and are running all the speakers as full-range. Otherwise, it is a waste.

 

[Kyle0910]

There is no sense in running your center channel as large. Not to be too critical of your system, but it is pointless to have a center channel which extends that low. If the built-in sub in the center speaker gives it more power above 80 Hz, that is fine, but below that frequency, it is senseless. The reason is having the center channel play in the subwoofer's range it can cause all kinds of phase issues with your subwoofer if your sub is set at 80. It will make integration much harder or impossible. If you have a good subwoofer, set all of your speakers to small, even if they are tower speakers.

Such a center channel might not be bad if you have no subwoofer and are running all the speakers as full-range. Otherwise, it is a waste.

I appreciate the response.

I have two 9040s, the 9060 center and two 8020s as rears.

They all have powered subs and I am running the towers as large but still run lfe from each to my receiver. The center channel is currently just set to small and used like a regular center.

No sub at the moment, room is too small and the powered towers have decent subs for my room size.

Should I leave it the way it is? It doesn't sound bad at all I just didn't know if there was any benefit going full range.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[shadyJ]

If you have a way of taking a measurement, than you should to see what is going on. It might be OK, or there might be some room for major improvement, but you can't know until you take some measurements.

 

[Kyle0910]

If you have a way of taking a measurement, than you should to see what is going on. It might be OK, or there might be some room for major improvement, but you can't know until you take some measurements.

That's where I don't know as much as a lot of you guys.

Just use an SPL meter or learn how to take more in depth measurements?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[shadyJ]

While these measurements can be done with an SPL meter, they are so much easier and better when done with a measurement microphone and laptop. You can get a Umik microphone, hook it up to a laptop, and take some sweeps in your room with mic placed at the listening position. That will let you know right away what is going on, and with enough experience, you will be able to correspond what you see on a graph to what you are hearing.

 

[Kyle0910]

While these measurements can be done with an SPL meter, they are so much easier and better when done with a measurement microphone and laptop. You can get a Umik microphone, hook it up to a laptop, and take some sweeps in your room with mic placed at the listening position. That will let you know right away what is going on, and with enough experience, you will be able to correspond what you see on a graph to what you are hearing.

Ok awesome thank you for the suggestions! I'll look into getting a mic like this and taking some data down to see what it's looking like. Any particular software you recommend as far as analysing the room?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[shadyJ]

Ok awesome thank you for the suggestions! I'll look into getting a mic like this and taking some data down to see what it's looking like. Any particular software you recommend as far as analysing the room?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The best software is Room EQ Wizard, and the good news is it's free.

 

[Kyle0910]

The best software is Room EQ Wizard, and the good news is it's free.

In that case I will be getting that mic soon and taking some measurements. Thanks!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dan Madden]

I appreciate the response.

I have two 9040s, the 9060 center and two 8020s as rears.

They all have powered subs and I am running the towers as large but still run lfe from each to my receiver. The center channel is currently just set to small and used like a regular center.

No sub at the moment, room is too small and the powered towers have decent subs for my room size.

Should I leave it the way it is? It doesn't sound bad at all I just didn't know if there was any benefit going full range.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If all your speakers have powered subs (Which is odd), the best way to run them is to have all speakers set to large since you do not have enough LF/LFE outs on your AVR to send the independent LF signals to each of them. The AVR will matrix all the LF signals to all the speakers equally and each of your speakers will play them equally.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I believe in setting all my speakers to SMALL and letting all my subwoofers play the heavy bass.

So I don't believe in "built-in subs" for center speakers.

But I do believe in putting a subwoofer in the vicinity of the middle front wall.

 

[Kyle0910]

I believe in setting all my speakers to SMALL and letting all my subwoofers play the heavy bass.

So I don't believe in "built-in subs" for center speakers.

But I do believe in putting a subwoofer in the vicinity of the middle front wall.

There's just no room for dedicated subs until I move to a place with a room I can dedicate to a theater so the integrated powered subs will have to do for now.

Would you recommend not running the center channel as large still or does knowing that change anything?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

There's just no room for dedicated subs until I move to a place with a room I can dedicate to a theater so the integrated powered subs will have to do for now.

Would you recommend not running the center channel as large still or does knowing that change anything?

I don't see any "problems" with integrated subs as long as they produce good clean bass for you.

Theoretically, I want my Center speaker (and all speakers) to have as little distortion and stress as possible, which means not demanding it to be full-range. So I would still set the Center as Small.

But in reality, you can just try both Large and Small settings and see what works "best for you".

 

[Dan Madden]

I believe in setting all my speakers to SMALL and letting all my subwoofers play the heavy bass.

So I don't believe in "built-in subs" for center speakers.

But I do believe in putting a subwoofer in the vicinity of the middle front wall.

I believe the same thing too but this guy's got a very different speaker setup than most. If he sets all his speakers to small, the integrated sub in his center will be not used to it's potential. Most AVR's have only 2 sub outs on the back so if he used those and set all his speakers to small, he would have to send that signal only to his left and right mains, leaving his sub integrated center speaker without any LF/LFE to play.

Do ALL of your speakers (including the surrounds) have integrated subs? That's an important question! I would really like to see pictures of your speakers!!??

 

[Kyle0910]

I believe the same thing too but this guy's got a very different speaker setup than most. If he sets all his speakers to small, the integrated sub in his center will be not used to it's potential. Most AVR's have only 2 sub outs on the back so if he used those and set all his speakers to small, he would have to send that signal only to his left and right mains, leaving his sub integrated center speaker without any LF/LFE to play.

Do ALL of your speakers (including the surrounds) have integrated subs? That's an important question! I would really like to see pictures of your speakers!!??

Yes, all of my speakers have built in powered woofers, including the surrounds.

Those are my front three with powered woofers and the surrounds are similar but smaller.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[lovinthehd]

I believe the same thing too but this guy's got a very different speaker setup than most. If he sets all his speakers to small, the integrated sub in his center will be not used to it's potential. Most AVR's have only 2 sub outs on the back so if he used those and set all his speakers to small, he would have to send that signal only to his left and right mains, leaving his sub integrated center speaker without any LF/LFE to play.

Do ALL of your speakers (including the surrounds) have integrated subs? That's an important question! I would really like to see pictures of your speakers!!??

He could split the pre-out signal to all the speakers' "subwoofers" easily enough, even if the avr only has one sub pre-out (most dual sub pre-outs are just an internal splitter anyways)....if he indeed has them setup that way. I believe he's got the DT "BP" series with the built in powered bass module, and I believe those can be run either with speakers set to large and using the speaker's own bass management or you can use a pre-out from the avr.

OP--just how do you have each speaker connected and setup in your avr?

 

[Kyle0910]

He could split the pre-out signal to all the speakers' "subwoofers" easily enough, even if the avr only has one sub pre-out (most dual sub pre-outs are just an internal splitter anyways)....if he indeed has them setup that way. I believe he's got the DT "BP" series with the built in powered bass module, and I believe those can be run either with speakers set to large and using the speaker's own bass management or you can use a pre-out from the avr.

OP--just how do you have each speaker connected and setup in your avr?

At the moment I am running all of the speakers as large and using the internal crossovers.

Before I had the LFE run from my Denon X4200 to my four towers with a splitter coming off of the receiver and my center channel set to small.

Im off of work the next couple days and I'm going to spend some time listening and see what sounds best for me.

Yes they are the "BP 90XX" model speakers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[lovinthehd]

I had just reread other than your first post, where you say you ran the other four speakers as large but still have lfe input also connected? Why still using the lfe input on the speaker if running the speaker as large? Is this a way to get some sort of double bass? I'm not that familiar with the DT bass module setup methods....

In any case, it does always boil down to preference, so I think that would be a good move, compare the two methods of setup for all or some of the speakers and see what way/combo you like best.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I believe the same thing too but this guy's got a very different speaker setup than most. If he sets all his speakers to small, the integrated sub in his center will be not used to it's potential. Most AVR's have only 2 sub outs on the back so if he used those and set all his speakers to small, he would have to send that signal only to his left and right mains, leaving his sub integrated center speaker without any LF/LFE to play.

Do ALL of your speakers (including the surrounds) have integrated subs? That's an important question! I would really like to see pictures of your speakers!!??

I would not trust the "sub" in the center or surround speakers because they are probably too small. So I would just hook the LFE to the Front L/R and not use the Center or Surround LFE, but still set everything to Small.

 

[Kyle0910]

I would not trust the "sub" in the center or surround speakers because they are probably too small. So I would just hook the LFE to the Front L/R and not use the Center or Surround LFE, but still set everything to Small.

They are all 8 inch powered woofers.

I'll play around with different settings and let you guys know what I find.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk