Outlaw RR2150 or Emotiva BasX A300 w/Preamp?

[Blues Doctor]

Putting a music-only stereo rig together. I'm retired on fixed income, so looking for best value for money. I've only owned stereo receivers before, never seperates. I now would like to upgrade my amp, and am considering the Outlaw RR2150. Done. But then I started learning more about Emotiva, and am now considering the BasX A300 amp and their BasX $299 preamp. DAC, and tuner. I have to admit I was excited about getting seperates I could afford for first time in my life. The price is the same (+$40 shipping for the Outlaw.) for either option, and both will fit my needs. I decided on trying Emotiva, but then started having doubts about quality after reading various threads complaining about quality and customer service. (???). Would welcome and appreciate any input or suggestions regarding this subject. I will be powering a pair of Klipsch R-28F towers with an RSL Speedwoofer 10S for 2.1 channel stereo rig. I like the looks of both. BasX A-300 is rated at 150w @ 8 ohms, while the Outlaw is under specced @ 100w @ 8 ohms. Thanks in advance for your help. I believe I'd be happy with either, but quality and product lifespan is important. I believe the posts about Emotiva's QC and non-responsive customer service were on AVS Forum. I had decided upon the BasX option, however, those threads caused some serious doubt about durability and support after sale. Help!

 

[j_garcia]

I have had nothing but good experiences with Emo's customer service. Their quality can be hit or miss depending on the prodcut, but the amps have been excellent for me. I had an issue or two with the UMC-200 but they took care of it. The previously built in China stuff may have been higher in issue IMO. It is now all built here AFAIK. That's kind of a tough choice honestly, but I'd probably opt for the Outlaw between these two choices, even coming from a Emotiva owner. 100W of Outlaw power is more than enough to drive those R-28Fs.

If you happend to see the many threads about the one guy complaining about Emo service, he was SORELY in the wrong there, since HE was at fault and then tried to blame them. They still took care of his issues even though they should not have.

 

[KEW]

The Outlaw will properly manage the crossover between your speakers and sub.
I don't believe the Emotiva will do this - likely it gives a full range both to the sub and to your speakers.
That will work, but it is better if your speakers/amp are relieved of the ~50Hz and below that your sub will take on. (the Emo amp can do the job and those Klipsch do pretty good, but they will do a better job with the upper bass and lower midrange if they are free of the lowest notes)

Power rating is not an issue with those speakers. 100 Watts will drive them to insane levels in any normal living room.

 

[Blues Doctor]

I have had nothing but good experiences with Emo's customer service. Their quality can be hit or miss depending on the prodcut, but the amps have been excellent for me. I had an issue or two with the UMC-200 but they took care of it. The previously built in China stuff may have been higher in issue IMO. It is now all built here AFAIK. That's kind of a tough choice honestly, but I'd probably opt for the Outlaw between these two choices, even coming from a Emotiva owner. 100W of Outlaw power is more than enough to drive those R-28Fs.

If you happend to see the many threads about the one guy complaining about Emo service, he was SORELY in the wrong there, since HE was at fault and then tried to blame them. They still took care of his issues even though they should not have.

Thank you J. Your input is exactly why I posted the question. I like the bass management feature of the Outlaw and the reviews and specs. On the other hand, I am intrigued and curious about the Emotiva amp/pre option, having always having receivers since early 70s.
That being said, my top priority is SQ and value within my budget.

 

[Blues Doctor]

The Outlaw will properly manage the crossover between your speakers and sub.
I don't believe the Emotiva will do this - likely it gives a full range both to the sub and to your speakers.
That will work, but it is better if your speakers/amp are relieved of the ~50Hz and below that your sub will take on. (the Emo amp can do the job and those Klipsch do pretty good, but they will do a better job with the upper bass and lower midrange if they are free of the lowest notes)

Power rating is not an issue with those speakers. 100 Watts will drive them to insane levels in any normal living room.

Right KEW, I agree. The bass mangement feature is appealing to me. Thanks for your input. (Again) You helped me with subwoofer choices and options.

 

[KEW]

Happy to help.
The Outlaw is rare in providing decent bass management in a stereo receiver. It is a shame that Yamaha doesn't transfer some of the bass management technology from their AVR's, since they are actively producing & selling stereo receivers. Even a fixed XO at 80 or 100Hz (with an on-off switch) would be very useful at reducing the load on the main speakers and amp (which should be a benefit of having a sub)!
BTW, SVS's Merlin suggests 60Hz for the crossover setting on a receiver with bass management (or 40Hz if you had a receiver without bass management). I'd consider that a very good starting point and you can tweak from there if you are so inclined.
So, if you get the Outlaw, set it at 60Hz and set the toggle switch on your sub to crossover bypass (since the crossover you'll use is in the receiver)!

Happy to help, that is going to be a great sounding system!!!

 

[Blues Doctor]

Happy to help.
The Outlaw is rare in providing decent bass management in a stereo receiver. It is a shame that Yamaha doesn't transfer some of the bass management technology from their AVR's, since they are actively producing & selling stereo receivers. Even a fixed XO at 80 or 100Hz (with an on-off switch) would be very useful at reducing the load on the main speakers and amp (which should be a benefit of having a sub)!
BTW, SVS's Merlin suggests 60Hz for the crossover setting on a receiver with bass management (or 40Hz if you had a receiver without bass management). I'd consider that a very good starting point and you can tweak from there if you are so inclined.
So, if you get the Outlaw, set it at 60Hz and set the toggle switch on your sub to crossover bypass (since the crossover you'll use is in the receiver)!

Happy to help, that is going to be a great sounding system!!!

Thanks again. Have to say I'm leaning back towards the Outlaw now. I have yet to see any reviews on E's BasX line. The lack of bass management is the drawback of Yamaha's R-S700. Otherwise a capable receiver. Appreciate your input.

 

[Blues Doctor]

I have had nothing but good experiences with Emo's customer service. Their quality can be hit or miss depending on the prodcut, but the amps have been excellent for me. I had an issue or two with the UMC-200 but they took care of it. The previously built in China stuff may have been higher in issue IMO. It is now all built here AFAIK. That's kind of a tough choice honestly, but I'd probably opt for the Outlaw between these two choices, even coming from a Emotiva owner. 100W of Outlaw power is more than enough to drive those R-28Fs.

If you happend to see the many threads about the one guy complaining about Emo service, he was SORELY in the wrong there, since HE was at fault and then tried to blame them. They still took care of his issues even though they should not have.

Hey J. Thanks again for sharing your personal experience with Emotiva. I was hoping someone would do just that, or same with Outlaw. I was curious why you would probably opt for the RR-2150 between those choices. Powerful enough, yes, but any other reasons? Respect your opinion.

 

[KEW]

The Outlaw is a very solid unit and I don't believe you will have any regrets with it!

However, I will throw out another idea, since you are being so thorough in your selection.
Understand that I am not categorically suggesting this as "better", rather it is an option to consider. The choice should be determined by your objectives and inclinations!

For $280, you can get one of these.
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/marnr1504/marantz-nr1504-slimline-5.1-ch-x-50-watts-networking-a/v-receiver/1.html

Pros:
1) With stereo pre-outs, this makes for an inexpensive pre-amp which includes some interesting features.
2) It includes amplification, so you could add a stronger amp on your own time-table. The amp is rated at 50 WRMS, but since it is a 5 channel amp, it should do well for higher current demands (but certainly not so rigorous as the Outlaw).
3) Has Audyssey MultEQ, which most of us agree assists with optimizing the integration and setup of sub.
4) Has Audyssey DynamicEQ, which most of us (if not everyone) like. I think of this as what a loudness control should be/do!
5) As an AVR, it allows a transition into HT (or a music system that allows you to watch TV) if that has any value to you. You can add the additional 3 channels, but don't think this would improve your music experience - only if you are playing one of the very few properly mastered DVD/BD 5.1 channel recordings of a performance. Stereo is still the format of music.
6) Ability to control the level of the sub via the R/C (although you have to go into menu system and need TV to see). I find the bass is heavy on some recordings I like.
7) For me, adding an inexpensive Smart TV (see below) has great value. Assuming you have a basic internet connection, you can set up a free Pandora account (with occasional commercials) and have music streaming into your home. Pandora is not the very highest quality format, but it is such a good way to discover new music based on your preferences and its free!!! (you tell it what music you like and it starts feeding you that music plus other similar artists. If you especially like or dislike a song, you give it thumbs up or thumbs down and it modifies your play list accordingly)

Neutral:
1) Eco mode reduces operating temperature by 10 degrees, but I'd guess having a video processor increases the temperature by (10 or more) degrees, so that is a wash. For longevity, I'd go with the Outlaw

Cons:
1) A TV is really recommended to assist with setup and navigating menus (but for $140 you can buy something like this which may be useful, depending on the room/use). With the smart tv, aside from Netflix and Hulu, you can access youTube videos of your favorite groups and play them over your system (audio Quality is a mixed bag depending on who posted the clip).
https://www.walmart.com/ip/VIZIO-D24-D1-24-1080p-60Hz-LED-Smart-HDTV/49239323
2) Added complexity of simple operations like adjusting the Bass or Treble via menu (the Marantz is like most modern car stereos vs the simple knobs on the Outlaw).
3) Complexity and heat make me subjectively think of the AVR as an item with a 7-10 year lifespan, while I would put the Outlaw around 20. Understand there is no fact behind this statement; however, there certainly is more to fail in the Marantz.

More pros than cons, but the longevity is one item which may be very important to you.

If that has appeal, you might also consider one of these and forget about external amplification. This has tested out very well as a stereo amplifier (and I must admit, to me this is a great looking unit, which matters):
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/marsr6009/marantz-sr6009-7.2-ch-x-110-watts-networking-a/v-receiver/1.html


Another option is to get the Emotiva PT-100 (or any stereo pre-amp) and pair it with one of these:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/XLS1002

The trick here is the Crown Pro-audio amp has band-pass filters which will allow you to set up a high-pass filter at 60Hz for the amp/mains to compliment the low pass crossover on your sub (also set to 60Hz).
As a pro audio amp, these are built to take a beating and durability should be excellent in a consumer environment! Also, the cooling system in this unit and remote trigger will allow you to stick it almost anywhere if you want it out of sight for cleaner look.

Those are all of the options I know of that are worth consideration.

Hopefully this will help you to decide what you want/need. Several ways to skin this cat, but unfortunately, you can't get the integrated look of the Emo Amp and Pre without sacrificing the benefits of off-loading the bass from your towers. How important is this bass management? I believe you would hear a clear difference if you could A-B them, but don't think you are going to be distracted by anything sounding wrong if you went without.

 

[mannye]

I have owned the RR2150 and I can tell you that aside from being built like a tank, the customer service at Outlaw is second to none. I have also owned several products from them, from the first 5 channel amp they made, the 750, which still sounds great and is still powering my DefTech speakers to silly levels in the home theater.

I'm mentioning all this because I think as a fanboy of Outlaw, you should know that after a year or two of owning it, I decided to sell it because a refurbished Denon PMA-750 integrated amp just sounded better. the Outlaw always seemed to be missing something. I even sent it back to Outlaw for an update where they installed the latest bass management (I think it was both hardware and firmware) and went through it completely. Yet it was still missing "something." Maybe it's me. I even tried all sorts of speakers with the Outlaw (granted, all vintage..nothing new, so maybe that was the issue) and it just didn't like any of them.

I just wanted to put that out there. I haven't heard the BasX, so I can't comment except to say that separates are IMO always better because a great amp is something most people never part with. You can try all sorts of pre amps once you have a good speaker amp combo.

 

[KEW]

For $280, you can get one of these.
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/marnr1504/marantz-nr1504-slimline-5.1-ch-x-50-watts-networking-a/v-receiver/1.html

I need to qualify this suggestion.
I really like this unit on paper for its feature set and reasonable spec's. However, I own a slim-line NR1605 which has had an HDMI failure. When I went to the shop, I passed another guy picking up his NR-1606 which also had an HDMI board failure. That may just be a bizarre coincidence, but I'm not feeling real good about the long term durability of these units! I don't know if the 1504 uses similar HDMI board. It could be a heat issue in these slim profile AVR's, but at this point I can't be too positive with the slim Marantz AVR's.

 

[mannye]

That's one very important feature high end equipment generally has. Strong build quality. Most of these units will last for decades without a hiccup. The only downside is that a smaller company can sometimes disappear. Then you have an orphan. Ask all the guys that spent thousands on B&K home theater preamps. Me being one of them.

 

[KEW]

That's one very important feature high end equipment generally has. Strong build quality. Most of these units will last for decades without a hiccup. The only downside is that a smaller company can sometimes disappear. Then you have an orphan. Ask all the guys that spent thousands on B&K home theater preamps. Me being one of them.

I do believe there is some truth to what you are saying, but in the case of simpler gear like old school pre-amps, power amps, integrated amps, and stereo receivers; I believe the reliability of mainstream products from mainstream companies like HK, Yamaha, Marantz, Denon, and Pioneer is quite good.
I believe it is the advent of introducing modern processor technology that causes reliability issues. This is a new technology and even the best companies are entering (comparatively) uncertain territory with their newest products.

I'm over generalizing below, but I think you'd agree with my main premise.
More significant in the current world is that a 15 year old HT preamp is not very relevant. For HT, the sophistication of new technology is making obsolete the high-end pres from a decade ago.

Also, I believe the high end companies simply do not have the R&D funds available to keep pace with the latest technology. A company like Marantz-Denon is introducing a new line of AVRs on an annual basis with the latest tech as an on-going process. A company like Classe, Krell, Bryston, etc needs more time to prove out and bring the latest technology into production. That is why they have (wisely) avoided trying to keep up and sell their products as emphasizing the fundamentals.
Nothing wrong with that, but when you talk high-end pre's you are not exactly talking about the same thing as what most of us think of as a pre.

I think most people here who are into HT are partly into the technologies of HT. In that case, I think the best approach is to buy a mainstream pre or AVR with pre-outs and spend your high end money on speakers, projector/TV, amplifiers, etc. Though some may argue that screen resolution is advancing so fast as to suggest obsolescence.
The Pre is going to start getting out of date well before the others.

 

[mannye]

I do believe there is some truth to what you are saying, but in the case of simpler gear like old school pre-amps, power amps, integrated amps, and stereo receivers; I believe the reliability of mainstream products from mainstream companies like HK, Yamaha, Marantz, Denon, and Pioneer is quite good.
I believe it is the advent of introducing modern processor technology that causes reliability issues. This is a new technology and even the best companies are entering (comparatively) uncertain territory with their newest products.

I'm over generalizing below, but I think you'd agree with my main premise.
More significant in the current world is that a 15 year old HT preamp is not very relevant. For HT, the sophistication of new technology is making obsolete the high-end pres from a decade ago.

Also, I believe the high end companies simply do not have the R&D funds available to keep pace with the latest technology. A company like Marantz-Denon is introducing a new line of AVRs on an annual basis with the latest tech as an on-going process. A company like Classe, Krell, Bryston, etc needs more time to prove out and bring the latest technology into production. That is why they have (wisely) avoided trying to keep up and sell their products as emphasizing the fundamentals.
Nothing wrong with that, but when you talk high-end pre's you are not exactly talking about the same thing as what most of us think of as a pre.

I think most people here who are into HT are partly into the technologies of HT. In that case, I think the best approach is to buy a mainstream pre or AVR with pre-outs and spend your high end money on speakers, projector/TV, amplifiers, etc. Though some may argue that screen resolution is advancing so fast as to suggest obsolescence.
The Pre is going to start getting out of date well before the others.

Agree on everything you're saying. Only have one thing to add.

Keep in mind that tech will keep moving forward. Back when I made the big HT investment it was with an understanding that it would only be the latest and greatest for a month or two. The important thing was to have a movie watching experience that was immersive. Sure enough, not even a year went by and 5.1 became 7.1.

15 years later and even though I eventually acquired (cheap) a Reference 50 with balanced 7.1 outs, I'm still rocking unbalanced 5.1 and not feeling the need to upgrade audio. When the 55 inch Samsung dies or the Panasonic PJ dies, only then will I upgrade. Because the quality is good enough that I don't feel likje I am missing out on anything.

I wish I was as complacent with my 2 channel analoig rig.

 

[PENG]

Putting a music-only stereo rig together. I'm retired on fixed income, so looking for best value for money. I've only owned stereo receivers before, never seperates. I now would like to upgrade my amp, and am considering the Outlaw RR2150. Done. But then I started learning more about Emotiva, and am now considering the BasX A300 amp and their BasX $299 preamp. DAC, and tuner. I have to admit I was excited about getting seperates I could afford for first time in my life. The price is the same (+$40 shipping for the Outlaw.) for either option, and both will fit my needs. I decided on trying Emotiva, but then started having doubts about quality after reading various threads complaining about quality and customer service. (???). Would welcome and appreciate any input or suggestions regarding this subject. I will be powering a pair of Klipsch R-28F towers with an RSL Speedwoofer 10S for 2.1 channel stereo rig. I like the looks of both. BasX A-300 is rated at 150w @ 8 ohms, while the Outlaw is under specced @ 100w @ 8 ohms. Thanks in advance for your help. I believe I'd be happy with either, but quality and product lifespan is important. I believe the posts about Emotiva's QC and non-responsive customer service were on AVS Forum. I had decided upon the BasX option, however, those threads caused some serious doubt about durability and support after sale. Help!

Just want to add one more option, how about an integrated amp, especially one that has pre-outs and digital input(s). That will get you the benefits of a "separate" system at a lower initial cost.

 

[rnatalli]

HK made stereo units in the past with bass management that were excellent and reasonably priced. Not sure if their current units offer the same, but might be worth a look.

 

[mannye]

One important thing we haven't mentioned.

I THINK Outlaw offers a 30 day evaluation period. I would ask if Emotiva does the same.

I would get both, try them both and keep your favorite.