System upgrade

[matt houser]

So I have a pretty amazing system already but I would like to add more to it, my current setup is a denon x3100w, ascend acoustics ctm 340 se's across the front & cbm 170 se's as surrounds, anchored by an hsu vtf3 mk5 sub, what would be the best way to upgrade, I know there are several options, I could start by going from a 5.1 to a 7.1 system adding side surrounds, or maybe add a second sub, maybe even add Sierra towers in the front, although I am wondering how timbermatched they would be with the other ascends, where is the best place to start

 

[its phillip]

Add the second sub

 

[lsiberian]

I second the sub

 

[matt houser]

These ascends are Great sounding speakers , i'm surprised to hear you guys go with the sub though, I do know all the benefits that adding a second sub offers, I don't know if this makes a difference but I am mainly set up for a single sweet spot, I don't have friends over very often to enjoy my home theater it's just the wife and I, what are your opinions on why you would choose the sub first, even though the speakers are awesome I can't help but wonder if they're a little out matched by the sub I have already, your thoughts???

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

If you feel and measure bass in sweet spot to be good, then consider TV (size wise) upgrade.

 

[lovinthehd]

Don't see why that sub is on some extra level than the speakers, but dual subs could improve things....do both seats measure well or does the wife not care anyways? I'd at least want a bigger sub but that's me. Where are your current surrounds? In a 5.1 the surrounds should be to the sides, rears come into play in a 7ch setup (or not, you can do it other ways as well)...

ps How big a room is this? Sealed or open to others?

 

[matt houser]

Don't see why that sub is on some extra level than the speakers, but dual subs could improve things....do both seats measure well or does the wife not care anyways? I'd at least want a bigger sub but that's me. Where are your current surrounds? In a 5.1 the surrounds should be to the sides, rears come into play in a 7ch setup (or not, you can do it other ways as well)...

ps How big a room is this? Sealed or open to others?

Bigger sub, I am fairly new to the audio world but when I got this sub six months ago I thought it was huge, it's almost 3 feet tall and weighs over 100 pounds, The wife is not too much into the system, I'm pretty much spoiling myself, I am moving out of an apartment into my first home this weekend, The living room is very standard, typical rectangle shape and is carpeted, probably 14 x 18 x 10, although there is an open doorway to the kitchen and a second open doorway to another section of the house, I do have the surrounds off to the side and I don't think having room for rears is a problem, I watch movies occasionally and when I do I like to go all out and use lossless surround formats but mainly I love to crank up my tunes

 

[KenM10759]

Your room is a little bigger than mine, mostly in that you have almost 3 feet more height to the ceiling.

A simple test to see if you'd benefit from a second sub would be to find the most effective position for your current single sub at the main listening position, then go sit in other seats and decide if the bass response is radically worse. If so, you need a second one.

In my room small tower speakers work better (for me) than stand mount speakers ever did. A lot of music I listen to doesn't ever engage the subwoofer though it did with smaller speakers. Perhaps you could test a pair of floor standing speakers in the new room and decide if that would be good upgrade.

 

[shadyJ]

The thing is, it would be very costly to get speakers substantially better than the ones you own. There are better out there, but be prepared to pay multiple times what your existing speakers cost to get an upgrade that would actually be immediately noticeable and so worth it. The sub though.. Very few rooms vs listening position can get a good response with only a single subwoofer. Adding another VTF3 and a equalizer like the miniDSP + Umik mic will help you get a much more accurate bass response at your listening position. That is the upgrade I would make. The key is to measure your frequency response! It's all for nothing if you do not know what your own response is!

 

[lovinthehd]

Bigger sub, I am fairly new to the audio world but when I got this sub six months ago I thought it was huge, it's almost 3 feet tall and weighs over 100 pounds, The wife is not too much into the system, I'm pretty much spoiling myself, I am moving out of an apartment into my first home this weekend, The living room is very standard, typical rectangle shape and is carpeted, probably 14 x 18 x 10, although there is an open doorway to the kitchen and a second open doorway to another section of the house, I do have the surrounds off to the side and I don't think having room for rears is a problem, I watch movies occasionally and when I do I like to go all out and use lossless surround formats but mainly I love to crank up my tunes

LOL, yeah subs can be big but at least you're out of an apartment! WAF can be a force I hear, and that could affect having two I suppose. Assume this new living room is larger than your current one?

I agree with shadyj, go ahead and set up your current system in the new place then consider upgrade options....whatever that may end up being. There's always just going with what you have in the way of gear and getting more content to enjoy it with, too.

 

[matt houser]

The thing is, it would be very costly to get speakers substantially better than the ones you own. There are better out there, but be prepared to pay multiple times what your existing speakers cost to get an upgrade that would actually be immediately noticeable and so worth it. The sub though.. Very few rooms vs listening position can get a good response with only a single subwoofer. Adding another VTF3 and a equalizer like the miniDSP + Umik mic will help you get a much more accurate bass response at your listening position. That is the upgrade I would make. The key is to measure your frequency response! It's all for nothing if you do not know what your own response is!

Ahh Yes I was hoping you would weigh in with your opinion as you are the one that recommended me by this system, which by the way is absolutely amazing, I am just being greedy, you know how us audio guys are, The good old upgrade syndrome, just out of curiosity, I have been listening to a lot of music, i'm not sure I particularly care for the multi channel stereo option, I was thinking about maybe eventually adding two more CMT 340 se's to the back surround channels and when listening to music in stereo I could switch my receiver mode to A+B Fronts to listen in 4 way stereo, while at the same time being able to create a 7.1 system for movies, how do you feel about this idea, also you don't have to tell me twice, you help me create such an awesome system that I will be taking your word for it, a second mk5 sub is in my future

 

[matt houser]

LOL, yeah subs can be big but at least you're out of an apartment! WAF can be a force I hear, and that could affect having two I suppose. Assume this new living room is larger than your current one?

I agree with shadyj, go ahead and set up your current system in the new place then consider upgrade options....whatever that may end up being. There's always just going with what you have in the way of gear and getting more content to enjoy it with, too.

Honestly from all my research the current living room I'm in now is an absolute acoustic nightmare, The living room is connected to a quite large kitchen with a huge wall cut out and there's also a hallway connected to the rest of the apartment not to mention hardwood floors throughout the entire place, and I've definitely had a hard time getting good base out of the system but I think the living room that I am moving into will be a world a better, it's all carpeted and just a simple rectangle in shape, probably not quite as big is the room I'm in now and definitely not as wide open to the rest of the house

 

[shadyJ]

I think using CMT340s as surround speakers would be overkill. I would be looking at Ascend CBM170s for that.

I would avoid all-channel stereo, which will never sound right. Most recordings are meant to present the sound stage in front of the listener, not all around them.

Given the acoustic of your room, you really ought to measure the frequency response at your listening position. Get one of these, then install this software on your PC (it's free), and then do a measurement sweep. This will tell us exactly in what areas there is most room for improvement in your system.

 

[lovinthehd]

Honestly from all my research the current living room I'm in now is an absolute acoustic nightmare, The living room is connected to a quite large kitchen with a huge wall cut out and there's also a hallway connected to the rest of the apartment not to mention hardwood floors throughout the entire place, and I've definitely had a hard time getting good base out of the system but I think the living room that I am moving into will be a world a better, it's all carpeted and just a simple rectangle in shape, probably not quite as big is the room I'm in now and definitely not as wide open to the rest of the house

Living rooms aren't really good acoustic spaces in my experience, not in my last few houses at least. Carpeting vs hardwood should be an improvement, at least for higher frequencies. Bass sees the whole space, and if that's less that should help. I still like the benefits of multiple subs, I've gone from one to two to three to four now. Three was okay, four is better. Oh, plus a tactile transducer. I have a large living room open to other space, about 6500 cuft total.

I think you need to find out what your current gear sounds like in your new place first....at least it gives you something to compare with before making changes.

 

[matt houser]

I think using CMT340s as surround speakers would be overkill. I would be looking at Ascend CBM170s for that.

I would avoid all-channel stereo, which will never sound right. Most recordings are meant to present the sound stage in front of the listener, not all around them.

Given the acoustic of your room, you really ought to measure the frequency response at your listening position. Get one of these, then install this software on your PC (it's free), and then do a measurement sweep. This will tell us exactly in what areas there is most room for improvement in your system.

Thanks for all your help once again, i'll definitely order the microphone, I have never stepped into the world of audio measurements, I was looking at the mini DSP website, which one exactly would you recommend me get and how sophisticated is it to learn how to set this stuff up, I would be stepping into a whole new world but I have always been intrigued by great sound and I am a very willing participant

 

[shadyJ]

I would go for a 2x4 miniDSP box if you were to go that route. You will want to go over this application note carefully. It is not very difficult; there are a lot of tutorials out there that can walk you through everything.

 

[herbu]

I am mainly set up for a single sweet spot... it's just the wife and I

When you measure, you may find a huge difference in bass between two seats very close to each other. Our 2 primary seats are ~5' apart, just separated by a small end table. It was impossible to find a sub position in our room that provided near-equal bass in both chairs. I got a second sub... problem solved.

 

[KenM10759]

I found this to be true. In testing a 2 channel system (a Linn Majik/Exaktbox setup) with no sub at all I still found that ONE seat, a single position in that room, had significantly better bass and stereo imaging than either of the two the seats right next to it on left and right. In that one seat, it's unreal. In any other seat, it's just average.