Good used DAC & 2 Chan Preamp for good price.

[brad1138]

I am currently using a Lexicon MC-1 as DAC & Preamp for 2 channel CD listening, with an Onkyo DVD changer as CD transport. It actually works quite well. The Lexicon was built for surround, not necessarily 2 channel, but it was a $6,000 Preamp in 2002, I figure the 2 channel portion has to be at least "pretty good", and I do like it a bit better than the Emotiva for 2 chan (2 chan reviews on it are a bit mixed, but most of the reviews are from Audiophiles that paid ~$4,000-6,000 for it when it was new). I am happy with my transport, I don't believe they make much of a difference in the end anyway.

I want to experiment a bit, look for good deals on used DAC and 2 chan preamp. Hopefully keep it under $4-500.

With a little searching, I found that an "Entech Number Cruncher 205.2" is a very good DAC, and can be had for a few hundred when available on eBay, I am also looking at a PS Audio 4.6 preamp. I have owned one before, and liked it, but sold it when it started having a few issues.

I recently tried a little experiment that has worked out fine. I use my Citation 5.1 amp powering my Mirage M-3sis in both my 2 Stereo system and 7.2 Surround. I am using a Niles AXP-1 to switch between the Emotiva UMC-200 (for Surround) and Lexicon MC-1 (2.0 stereo). I know that any switch, like the AXP-1, has the potential to degrade the sound, but the Niles is a quality piece and I haven't noticed any issues, neither have others that have talked about it online. This also solves the issue that the Emotiva doesn't have a way to automatically turn the subs off for 2 channel listening and is a pain to go into the menu to do it every time. My Velodyne subs are great, but the M-3sis go down to 30Hz and sound better without them for most 2 chan music.

First question, for the price range I am looking at, will I likely be able to do any better than the Lexicon? Second, suggestions?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

while I'm not 100% sure, but these measurements look messy to my untrained eye
http://www.stereophile.com/content/mirage-m-3-loudspeaker-measurements#kpDd0AYAXkFFAwkB.97

but Irregardless (pun intended) General rule of thumb to significantly improve on sound one must invest in new speakers , not electronics which ones you already have are pretty good to say the least.

I think you could do better than Mirage M-3 and/or Velodyne subs (depends on the actual model, hi-end are pretty good, budget ones are dreck)

 

[brad1138]

while I'm not 100% sure, but these measurements look messy to my untrained eye
http://www.stereophile.com/content/mirage-m-3-loudspeaker-measurements#kpDd0AYAXkFFAwkB.97

but Irregardless (pun intended) General rule of thumb to significantly improve on sound one must invest in new speakers , not electronics which ones you already have are pretty good to say the least.

I think you could do better than Mirage M-3 and/or Velodyne subs (depends on the actual model, hi-end are pretty good, budget ones are dreck)

Thanks, But those are the wrong Speakers, mine are the M-3si. The "si" version was considerably better and are regarded as a reference standard speaker (regarded by some as the best Speakers Mirage ever made). I consider them the best part of my system. They are not going to be replaced.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/mirage-m-3si-loudspeaker-page-2#1mgZxqxhqDtMU74k.97

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/i-got-my-dream-speakers.227393/

I am not looking for significant improvement, my system is awesome and I love it to death, I am looking for ways to subtly improve it. If I can find an even better sounding DAC/preamp solution for under $500, I want to try it, I may not be able to. Tinkering with my system is part of the fun, especially when I can do it for not too much $. If I find a Better solution than the MC-1 for $500, and sell the MC-1 for ~$250, I only have $250 into it.

Also, the Velodyne Subs are top of the line (from their time) very well regarded Servo subs, That still go for near $500 each on the used market. I am very happy with those as well.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Thanks for correcting me on the model:
Here is right links, looks a bit better but a elevated lows
http://www.stereophile.com/content/mirage-m-3si-loudspeaker-measurements#SaYiz3u3OGFg4oJa.97

Ok, so you're perfectly happy to death with system - then why mess with it???
My opinions about new speakers stands. Try to order these on free home trial:
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cmt340m/cmt340m.html
Send them back before 30 days over. All you'd loose is a small cost of return shipping.

Your pre-pro allows some bass management - make sure it set correctly and/or try to play with various settings - like make sure your speakers are set to "small" for example and if possible try to change crossover point.

In addition, if you want to tinker on small budget, I'd recommend looking to acoustics panels. They will make more difference over new cables/dac.


Just my 2 humble centers. Feel free to disregard it and keep on looking on opinions on subtle differences in various dacs, but I fear that there are forums better suited for such quests.

 

[brad1138]

Thanks again for the advise... But you have basically done everything but answer my question.

I asked for recommendations on good quality DAC and Preamp from the used market (in the only preamp section of this forum), and you told me I didn't know what I wanted and I should replace my $3,500 pair of reference standard speakers with a well reviewed $500 pair...

Thanks, but I will be disregarding your advise.



Anyone (aside from this guy) have any thoughts?

(If a moderator thinks this belongs in a different part of these forums, feel free to move it)

 

[brad1138]

FWIW, I ended up getting a Schiit Modi Multibit DAC and am very pleased with it. I Also Found a very good deal on an Acurus LS11 Preamp. I am looking at some tube preamps also, but for now, I am happy with this setup. Also, in a high end 2.0 setup, the last thing you want is "bass management", you don't want an EQ in the signal path, or even bass and treble. The less circuitry and altering of the sound the better. That is completely different than in a surround sound setup.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[lovinthehd]

I think there are much better uses of time than substituting audio gear the way you're going about it. I will be disregarding your thoughts on the subject....

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I will be disregarding your thoughts on the subject....

+1. And if this wasn't blunt enough, let me share this piece of wisdom:

Because of idiots like the OP, companies which named borderline poop, continue to exist.
Also I highly recommend him to look for "subtle improvement" to upgrade his interconnect cable. I heard Audioquest are very expensive (ergo - they must be great, right?)

Oh, and I wasn't subtle enough about other forums, let me be more clear: http://forum.polkaudio.com/ - you'll find there troves of like minded audio-fools.

Now let me step back for a sec, if you're still here and re-iterate my and Lovingthehd points:
98% of sound quality are determinate by speakers, NOT ELECTRONICS, which in your case don't measure very well:

No amount of shitty electronics or tube pre-amps is going to fix that.

 

[mtrycrafts]

... I am looking at some tube preamps also, but for now, I am happy with this setup. Also, in a high end 2.0 setup, the last thing you want is "bass management", you don't want an EQ in the signal path, or even bass and treble. The less circuitry and altering of the sound the better. That is completely different than in a surround sound setup.

Thanks for all the help.

Everyone has opinions. Some have facts.

Since you seem to know what you want and so well equipped on urban legends and myths, don't think we can help you as we try to look for science based facts.
Some other place may be of more to your liking?

 

[lovinthehd]

re-illiterate my and Lovingthehd points:

I'd like to distance myself from this illiterate response Altho I assume you meant re-iterate....

 

[brad1138]

I think there are much better uses of time than substituting audio gear the way you're going about it. I will be disregarding your thoughts on the subject....

I didn't ask if you (or anyone) think there are better things to do.... As I said above, I ENJOY doing this (at least until I happened across this forum). I simply asked for some recommendations, which NO ONE gave, only people answering questions I didn't ask.

 

[brad1138]

Now let me step back for a sec, if you're still here and re-iterate my and Lovingthehd points:
98% of sound quality are determinate by speakers, NOT ELECTRONICS, which in your case don't measure very well:

.

It must be wonderful to know everything there is to know about something by looking at this picture with a self admitted, "untrained eye".....

I KNOW the speakers are the most important part, which is why I spent 20 years finding my favorite speakers and came up with these.

I think I said before, I didn't want to hear any more of your idiotic ramblings. Your continuing to post, only bolsters that belief. Maybe if you got out of your mom's basement, and didn't spend all day on this forum, you might learn something.

If you don't have an answer to the question I originally asked, instead of chiming in with off topic answers(and being rude about it), quit wasting both our time, and just STFU.

P.S. Vey sorry if you can't hear the difference between different audio products, must suck to have that crappy of hearing.

 

[brad1138]

Everyone has opinions. Some have facts.

Since you seem to know what you want and so well equipped on urban legends and myths, don't think we can help you as we try to look for science based facts.
Some other place may be of more to your liking?

You reply doesn't even deserve a response.

 

[brad1138]

Man, sorry I had the misfortune of finding this forum.

 

[lovinthehd]

Don't let the door hit ya in the butt on the way out. Maybe try the Polk or Audiokarma or Audiocircle forums...

 

[brad1138]

Don't let the door hit ya in the butt on the way out. Maybe try the Polk or Audiokarma or Audiocircle forums...

Never liked Polk, sorry. AudioKarma is a nice forum though, you guys could learn something from it.

 

[lovinthehd]

Sure.

 

[brad1138]

Also, an anechoic frequency response graph of a bipolar speaker isn't a particularly accurate representation of the speaker (sorry Boredsys.. if that is over your head). I'll take my own personal experience with them as well as this Conclusion from the same article as much more meaningful:

"
Conclusion
The Mirage M-3si is more than a refined M-3 (footnote 7). It is an unqualified success, a speaker which, in the right system, can re-create a musical experience with all the richness, finesse, power, and majesty one would expect from a full-range loudspeaker. It is easy to drive and is not too persnickety when it comes to room placement, working equally well in small or large rooms with adequate space (at least 3') between them and adjacent walls. The M-3si can give the music lover "the next best thing to the very best sound reproduction," with money left over for expanding his/her music library.

For a truly luxurious experience, try this: get your local Mirage dealer to hook up a pair of M-3sis in an all-tube analog system. Throw your copy of Joan Armatrading's Show Some Emotion (A&M SP 4663) on the turntable. Cue up "Willow," sit back, relax, and listen. I believe that, perhaps for the first time, you'll understand what all the brouhaha surrounding the High End is all about.

 

[lovinthehd]

From the numbnut reviewer who also creams himself about the silly Tara cables in the same review? Meh.

 

[mtrycrafts]

You reply doesn't even deserve a response.

Yet you commented. Strange.