am I wrong to be obsessed with Burr-Brown?

[applejax]

I'm considering a cheap receiver to replace a 15-year old dying Onkyo. While the general consensus is that receivers generally sound the same, While I'm sure that any of todays offerings would satisfy me on surround and video, I'm more concerned about getting something that sounds as least as good as the $1,000 Onkyo.

I am rather hung up on Burr-Brown D/A converters, and the only inexpensive receivers I see that use them are Yamahas. Interestingly, Yamaha uses them in *all* their receivers, even the $250 RX-V371. So, is it logical to think this unit would sound the same as something like their much more pricey RX-V671?

Or, is my hang up on Burr-Brown unwarranted, and would I be better off with a cheap Denon instead?

 

[avnetguy]

Part of having good sound is having a good D/A but that's only one part in the audio chain and I'm sure there are other good D/A makers. I really don't think you need to get hung up on the D/A chip maker IMO.

Steve

 

[jamie2112]

Yes, you are wrong, many others just as good.

 

[HexOmega]

Is the hang-up unwarranted? Probably.

You didn't mention your source material. The quality of DACs in a receiver will be of little importance with analog sources.

Your best bet is to purchase a receiver with the feature set that suits your needs, and a good strong amplifier section. The power consumption rating and overall build quality are usually pretty good indicators of the latter. Mainstream DACs have improved quite a bit in the last 15 years.

 

[cpp]

Lot of good DAC's chips out there. Wolfson, Crystal, Philips, ESS Sabre come to mind.. So don't get stuck on Burr Brown

 

[j_garcia]

Yes, you are wrong, many others just as good.

No real reason to repeat this word for word

 

[mtrycrafts]

No real reason to repeat this word for word

Well, but if you repeat it enough, it might sink in for good

 

[Ziontrain]

Sorry but just looking at the signal chain of a receiver, there is no way anyone can know their sound, let alone to prefer it.
- The signal-to-noise ratio of these DACs is so high that no human can actually detect their sound "signature" aka distortion in the first place.
- plus sound gets run through room correction processing that puts an audible on the signal.
- Then by the time you run that signa though an amplifier state, fuggeddaboutit.

 

[ichigo]

Burr Brown is a brand, like any others. The Burr Brown PCM1792/1796/1795 are popular with Yamaha, Denon, and Onkyo flagship receivers yes, but the rest of their lineup is no better or worse than any other brand.

As far as Yamaha goes, only the RX-A3000 and RX-A3010 uses the PCM1796 DAC. All the rest of their receivers use Burr Brown DACs (typically the PCM1791) that don't perform any better than competing receivers with Wolfsen or Cirrus Logic DACs.

The Onkyo 3009 and 5009 use the PCM1795 (32bit version of the 1796). The rest of their receivers, again, use more or less the same mid-tier DACs that any of the major brands make.

The Denon $10k separates use PCM1796 DACs, although your typical Denon receiver doesn't use anything special either.

 

[M Code]

Burr Brown is owned by Texas Instruments..
However TI never really got aggressive with Burr Brown's pricing so they were not as popular as DACs from Cirrus Logic, Analog Devices, Wolfson or AKM..

Todays the DACs are packed into a multi-channel pack where 8 channels can be in a single 1 IC package.. Significantly reducing its OE cost..

In the end, the above mentioned brands have DACs that are quite similar in sonic performance and one would find it difficult to hear any sonic differences..

Just my $0.02..

 

[rnatalli]

As others have already pointed out, it does not really matter. However, just as a FYI, many Onkyo models use Burr Brown DACs.

 

[applejax]

thanks all, very helpful - especially what ichigo had to say.

--david

 

[the_phew]

I don't think anyone in recent history has been able to distinguish between brands of DACs in a double-blind listening test, so I wouldn't be hung up on DAC brand.

In a receiver, the only feature that is undisputed to be audibly discernible is the room correction software. So buy the receiver with the best room correction software in your price range. Open Box Onkyo TX-NR 3009s are starting to show up for <$1600, and I think that is the current best deal going. Audyssey XT32 is the real deal, especially if you have two subwoofers.

If this is outside your budget, there are plenty of bargains for Audyssey XT receivers, especially in the used market. You can snag a used Onkyo TX-SR876 for <$500, which has a friggin beast of an amp section and Audyssey XT.

 

[3db]

yes. you are definately obessessing over DAC. This on the other had is normal..

 

[Ian Billen]

I'm considering a cheap receiver to replace a 15-year old dying Onkyo. While the general consensus is that receivers generally sound the same, While I'm sure that any of todays offerings would satisfy me on surround and video, I'm more concerned about getting something that sounds as least as good as the $1,000 Onkyo.

I am rather hung up on Burr-Brown D/A converters, and the only inexpensive receivers I see that use them are Yamahas. Interestingly, Yamaha uses them in *all* their receivers, even the $250 RX-V371. So, is it logical to think this unit would sound the same as something like their much more pricey RX-V671?

Or, is my hang up on Burr-Brown unwarranted, and would I be better off with a cheap Denon instead?

_______________________________________

If you enjoy products with Burr Brown DAC chips then that is fine. The sound you like may not be my personal first choice. Burr Brown (1790 series) are known to often provide a more 'rich' .. weighty ... thicker sound than the other DAC manufacturers. That is their schtick... so to speak. Some times this trades off on resolution (resolve of detail).... Sometimes it sounds fine. All depends on what you like and the recording itself.

**However ... as was said here ... don't get hung up on the DAC chip alone. That is only 1/3 of the equation. Sure.. it may be the most crucial BUT everything plays a role. There can be a less expensive Dac with a Burr Brown that doesn't sound all that great. There are gain stages.. transformers.. and the power circuitry and how it may be shielded have a great deal to do with it. Do 'not' .. I repeat... do NOT judge a DAC based on the actual converters alone. Although it may be the most important (technically)... all the components and the build / circuitry play a role... believe me.

Imagine having a Ferrari engine in a Datson and you are going on a 10 mile race. Sure.. the engine is the most important part BUT what about the steering.. the tires... the suspension .. the brakes... the transmission... etc. All that contributes to your experience and or you winning the race. The engine is the DAC chip ... but as you know there are a myriad of other factors that will seal the deal or make it a bit crappy.

 

[KEW]

I don't think "wrong" is the right word.
I think consumer audio industry marketers would consider people who believe there is good value to be gained from high-priced DACS as being highly "receptive" consumers!

 

[Speedskater]

That discussion was some 4 & 1/2 years ago. Everyone has moved on.

 

[cel4145]

That discussion was some 4 & 1/2 years ago. Everyone has moved on.

Yes. Now people are obsessed with Sabre ES9018 DAC chips. I know. Because I have one.

 

[MR.MAGOO]

If the device has a tone control for treble, bass, equalizer, does any DAC make a big difference?

 

[Mark of Cenla]

If the device has a tone control for treble, bass, equalizer, does any DAC make a big difference?

Yes, it can make a difference in the overall clarity/resolution. Peace and goodwill.