subwoofer connection

[Richard Adamski]

I would like some advice on connecting a sub to a stereo system. Based on the integrated amps I've looked at (parasound halo & rotel 1570) I have a choice of connecting the sub through the high & low pass filters (parasound) or just connecting through a pre amp out (rotel). I always thought separating the pre & power amp so the amp and speakers are relieved of the base work that the sub is doing is the best. But is it that important? Most amps I've looked at don't have this facility. What are the pro's & cons of these two options?Happy to hear what you think.

 

[j_garcia]

Lots of different questions there... The Parasound has basic bass management, though that's more than most. The Rotel, like nearly all integrated amps, offers full range preouts with no bass management. So we are clear, most subs have their own amp, so you wouldn't be powering it from the integrated in either case.

Speaker level can be fed to a sub equipped to handle that type of signal, but again, it is full range and you'd use the sub's x-over adjustment. Then the speakers would still be full range as well unless you used the sub's speaker level outputs, which would be at a fixed cutoff that is not adjusted by the sub's x-over.

In this case, the Parasound looks to offer the most flexibility, though the Oultaw RR2150 stereo receiver also offers basic bass management.

 

[Richard Adamski]

Lots of different questions there... The Parasound has basic bass management, though that's more than most. The Rotel, like nearly all integrated amps, offers full range preouts with no bass management. So we are clear, most subs have their own amp, so you wouldn't be powering it from the integrated in either case.

Speaker level can be fed to a sub equipped to handle that type of signal, but again, it is full range and you'd use the sub's x-over adjustment. Then the speakers would still be full range as well unless you used the sub's speaker level outputs, which would be at a fixed cutoff that is not adjusted by the sub's x-over.

In this case, the Parasound looks to offer the most flexibility, though the Oultaw RR2150 stereo receiver also offers basic bass management.

Thanks for that; I was told by a guy at a shop that base management wasn't necessary, you could just plug in the sub via the pre amp out. The speakers don't need to be filtered as they supposedly can't do that deep base anyway. It just got me wondering. By the way, has anyone heard and compared both the Parasound halo and the Rotel 1570??

 

[PENG]

Thanks for that; I was told by a guy at a shop that base management wasn't necessary, you could just plug in the sub via the pre amp out. The speakers don't need to be filtered as they supposedly can't do that deep base anyway. It just got me wondering. By the way, has anyone heard and compared both the Parasound halo and the Rotel 1570??

IMHO, even if you can get a response from someone who has such experience, it will be subjective opinion that such person may offer. I have enough faith in both, that it is probably good enough to just compare their specs, better yet if you can find their bench test data to compare as well.

 

[j_garcia]

Thanks for that; I was told by a guy at a shop that base management wasn't necessary, you could just plug in the sub via the pre amp out. The speakers don't need to be filtered as they supposedly can't do that deep base anyway. It just got me wondering. By the way, has anyone heard and compared both the Parasound halo and the Rotel 1570??

You don't NEED bass management, but it makes things a lot easier. You can achieve good results on your own; it just means doing things very much manually (dialing in the sub to blend properly with the mains).

I have actually heard the Parasound integrated and I was impressed. I didn't get to check it out much though because the guy said at the time it was the first unit shipped to any shop (apparently they know this guy, Parasound is local for me) and I was one of the first people to hear it somewhere other than at a demo show. I didn't know it even had bass management at all.

Have not heard the Rotel, but I don't doubt it is good too.

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks for that; I was told by a guy at a shop that base management wasn't necessary, you could just plug in the sub via the pre amp out. The speakers don't need to be filtered as they supposedly can't do that deep base anyway. It just got me wondering. By the way, has anyone heard and compared both the Parasound halo and the Rotel 1570??

Bass management gives you a way of controlling what goes to the speaker vs sub. Without it, you're often sending a full signal to the speakers and a full (sometimes limited) signal to the sub, duplicating the frequency range handled by each (and sometimes the sub has a true crossover on its line level or speaker level inputs/outputs, but more often simply a low pass filter). Personally if a salesman told me that nonsense I'd never buy from them again. YMMV. An avr can provide better bass management than most 2ch integrated amps and far more cost effectively. The amp "sound quality" IMO is not the piece to concentrate on.

 

[Richard Adamski]

Thanks for your responses. You have helped me make up my mind to stick to something with base management. I am still looking at other system combinations though and am sure to have other questions. Cheers

 

[lovinthehd]

@Dan Madden, you dislike what exactly about my post?

 

[Richard Adamski]

I appreciated your post! I don't know where the 'dislike' came from.
Next week I have the pleasure of listening to a set of Whatmough P15 signitures powered by Icon Audio Stereo 60 (tube amp). And I will be comparing these (at another location) with the PSB imaging II's. These will be powered by a Yamaha S2100 amp. It, like the Stereo 60, doesn't have base management hence my interest in the Parasound Halo. I think I have a mental block about avr's there another whole thing I don't know much about. And I'm primarily interested in recreating a purely stereo sound system. Cheers

 

[lovinthehd]

No problem, Dan has some funny ideas about audio from past posts, IMO. You should have the information from which to make a choice; you may decide bass management isn't for you (or your 2-ch wallet). 2ch gear isn't that special compared to avrs IMO....I have both and I'd rather have one of my avrs with bass management rather than either of my two-ch preamps without. YMMV.

 

[Dan Madden]

@Dan Madden, you dislike what exactly about my post?

"The amp "sound quality" IMO is not the piece to concentrate on".

 

[lovinthehd]

"The amp "sound quality" IMO is not the piece to concentrate on".

Figured you'd say something like that. Amp listening is not a useful pursuit among all things audio that actually matter, such as speakers and rooms. Especially review-driven, sighted non blind listening tests as you seem to use. Suum cuique.

 

[Dan Madden]

Figured you'd say something like that. Amp listening is not a useful pursuit among all things audio that actually matter, such as speakers and rooms. Especially review-driven, sighted non blind listening tests as you seem to use. Suum cuique.

Yep.......I figured you'd say something like that too. Let's agree to disagree and leave it at that. Many expert reviewers of amps and AVR's agree with me however.

I agree that room acoustics and speakers can have a huge difference on how a system will sound but once you have speakers you love in a room that is good for audio, an improved amp/AVR can make a major difference in how that system performs. You seem (and others here) to indicate that amplification makes ZERO difference and it does........in a rather big way actually .

 

[lovinthehd]

Yep.......I figured you'd say something like that too. Let's agree to disagree and leave it at that. Many expert reviewers of amps and AVR's agree with me however.

I agree that room acoustics and speakers can have a huge difference on how a system will sound but once you have speakers you love in a room that is good for audio, an improved amp/AVR can make a major difference in how that system performs. You seem (and others here) to indicate that amplification makes ZERO difference and it does........in a rather big way actually .

What is an "expert" reviewer of an amp/avr? Name three.

 

[Dan Madden]

What is an "expert" reviewer of an amp/avr? Name three.

What I'm talking about are reviews and A/B comparisons of amps and AVR's done by magazines such as 'Home Theater' and 'Stereo review' etc over the years. They are out there......all you have to do is look them up and read them.

 

[j_garcia]

What I'm talking about are reviews and A/B comparisons of amps and AVR's done by magazines such as 'Home Theater' and 'Stereo review' etc over the years. They are out there......all you have to do is look them up and read them.

Magazines who rely on paid advertisements from said reviewed products aren't a good source of "reviews". I trust my own ears and the only time I hear a difference in amps is when they are of completely different designs (valve vs solid state for example) where they have VERY different behaviors. From one solid state amp to another the difference is extremely minimal and other factors such as moving the speakers as little as 1" will have a bigger influence on the sound.

 

[lovinthehd]

What I'm talking about are reviews and A/B comparisons of amps and AVR's done by magazines such as 'Home Theater' and 'Stereo review' etc over the years. They are out there......all you have to do is look them up and read them.

Sorry, find few reviews/reviewers worth reading due their marketing ties these days. Which reviewers are expert? If one of them promotes silly 'phool cables for exAMPple their reviews become worthless drivel....any of your favs outside that bunch?

 

[Dan Madden]

I like to think that reviewers of audio products do so with with their ears and a passion for the biz. Run that statement by Gene here at Audioholics and see what he has to say about being biased towards paid advertisers!!??

 

[Dan Madden]

Also......to be clear on what you are suggesting. If you have an excellent source hooked up to high end speakers, that a $600 buck Yamaha amp will sound and perform the SAME as a $6K Classe amp level matched in a A/B comparison?

 

[j_garcia]

I like to think that reviewers of audio products do so with with their ears and a passion for the biz. Run that statement by Gene here at Audioholics and see what he has to say about being biased towards paid advertisers!!??

LOL. AH isn't the same thing. Companies know they will get an HONEST review here, so they know if they submit something that isn't up to snuff, it will NOT get a favorable review. There are plenty of paid advertisers here who do not have products reviewed here.

Also......to be clear on what you are suggesting. If you have an excellent source hooked up to high end speakers, that a $600 buck Yamaha amp will sound and perform the SAME as a $6K Classe amp level matched in a A/B comparison?

Why don't you go try it out in a blind test and let us know? Of course there will be small differences, but I actually will wager you can't tell the difference without knowing which is which and neither can an "expert".