My Odd dilemma

[Funky Zero]

Well, I recently started trying to piece together a budget system for my basement. I've been out of the audio habit for well over 20 years and quite frankly, I've never done much with or known a lot about home audio.
I've spent the last month reading and doing my best to absorb what is going on and searching for what I need.
For simplicity, I decided to stick with older solid state stuff and buy a set of SVS towers to go with it... in hopes of gradual upgrades on the gear later down the road.
So I found a so-so mediocre 2 channel amplifier (Sony TA-N330ES) and bought it several days ago. My first piece. I was happy, I finally got started.
Well, now my father, the evil scientist with too much idle time on his hands, has thrown a wrench in the plan. Not that I'm necessarily complaining, I'm quite thrilled... but all my research is out the window now.
When I mentioned to him a couple of months ago that I had started a budget audio project, he saw an opportunity for another of his retirement projects and went to work.
Tonight he produced 2, Odd mono tube amps that he built for me... complete with KT88 Gold Lion tubes and Edcor transformers. He dropped a lot of money (and time) building these... they are the 25watt versions (http://diyaudioprojects.com/Tubes/5751-KT88-Tube-Amp-Kit/). He didn't like the kit, he wanted some better parts so it's all basically the same except he got the Edcor transformers and he sourced some JJ caps from the Russians. He wanted them for some particular reason that I can't recall now.

Ok anyway, now that I have the short story out of the way, I have to admit, I'm in over my head now. I was avoiding tube amps for a reason... I know nothing about them, what other components I need or anything else. He is also building a 2-channel tube preamp for me right now but that is where this falls off.

Here's what I would like to end up with and in this order:
- 2 channel system with an adequate sub. I'm not stuck on SVS, but seems to be the best I can afford
- Digital source input for playback of all my FLAC files (no idea how to do this yet)
- Input for CD or SACD
- later down the road, a turntable

I really want to keep it that simplistic, no video or anything. I just don't know what parts I need.

So some questions... do you think 25 watts will properly drive the SVS tower? I don't know how to compare this to a solid state amp from a power perspective. I understand the SVS Ultra towers are pretty efficient but I'm not sure what to expect. I have no baseline or method to audition anything.
I want to integrate a sub later on. Since I now have 2 mono amps, how would I accomplish this?
As far as something to take source inputs, where should I go? I'm reluctant to tell my dad that the simple 2 channel preamp won't fit my needs so I have to make it work somehow. I don't have any details about the preamp yet or what it's capabilities are. Knowing him, it will be top notch quality and very minimalist in design.
What other pieces will I need to bring in digital source and later, a turntable?
I know this info is most likely already out there, but it's a quagmire, I'm suffering from information overload and quite frankly, I've gotten lost at this point.
Keeping in mind I don't have a wad of cash, can anyone tell me what direction they would run from this point? I'm willing to be patient, wait for the right deals, but I really want to do this right the first try.
Any advice would be deeply appreciated.

 

[TLS Guy]

Well, I recently started trying to piece together a budget system for my basement. I've been out of the audio habit for well over 20 years and quite frankly, I've never done much with or known a lot about home audio.
I've spent the last month reading and doing my best to absorb what is going on and searching for what I need.
For simplicity, I decided to stick with older solid state stuff and buy a set of SVS towers to go with it... in hopes of gradual upgrades on the gear later down the road.
So I found a so-so mediocre 2 channel amplifier (Sony TA-N330ES) and bought it several days ago. My first piece. I was happy, I finally got started.
Well, now my father, the evil scientist with too much idle time on his hands, has thrown a wrench in the plan. Not that I'm necessarily complaining, I'm quite thrilled... but all my research is out the window now.
When I mentioned to him a couple of months ago that I had started a budget audio project, he saw an opportunity for another of his retirement projects and went to work.
Tonight he produced 2, Odd mono tube amps that he built for me... complete with KT88 Gold Lion tubes and Edcor transformers. He dropped a lot of money (and time) building these... they are the 25watt versions (http://diyaudioprojects.com/Tubes/5751-KT88-Tube-Amp-Kit/). He didn't like the kit, he wanted some better parts so it's all basically the same except he got the Edcor transformers and he sourced some JJ caps from the Russians. He wanted them for some particular reason that I can't recall now.

Ok anyway, now that I have the short story out of the way, I have to admit, I'm in over my head now. I was avoiding tube amps for a reason... I know nothing about them, what other components I need or anything else. He is also building a 2-channel tube preamp for me right now but that is where this falls off.

Here's what I would like to end up with and in this order:
- 2 channel system with an adequate sub. I'm not stuck on SVS, but seems to be the best I can afford
- Digital source input for playback of all my FLAC files (no idea how to do this yet)
- Input for CD or SACD
- later down the road, a turntable

I really want to keep it that simplistic, no video or anything. I just don't know what parts I need.

So some questions... do you think 25 watts will properly drive the SVS tower? I don't know how to compare this to a solid state amp from a power perspective. I understand the SVS Ultra towers are pretty efficient but I'm not sure what to expect. I have no baseline or method to audition anything.
I want to integrate a sub later on. Since I now have 2 mono amps, how would I accomplish this?
As far as something to take source inputs, where should I go? I'm reluctant to tell my dad that the simple 2 channel preamp won't fit my needs so I have to make it work somehow. I don't have any details about the preamp yet or what it's capabilities are. Knowing him, it will be top notch quality and very minimalist in design.
What other pieces will I need to bring in digital source and later, a turntable?
I know this info is most likely already out there, but it's a quagmire, I'm suffering from information overload and quite frankly, I've gotten lost at this point.
Keeping in mind I don't have a wad of cash, can anyone tell me what direction they would run from this point? I'm willing to be patient, wait for the right deals, but I really want to do this right the first try.
Any advice would be deeply appreciated.

First of all I think that amp will drive the SVS towers. Since this is a preamp/amp situation, a crossover for sub and bass management can be inserted between preamp and amp.

The bigger question is your needs. A tube amp system like this weds you to the analog world pretty much. Sure you can use a smart TV and a DAC to convert the optical out to analog and use the TV as a switch to change sources and stream AV, but is not handy in my view.

What you want to do belongs squarely in the brave new digital age.

Now that tube power amp is hair shirt minimalist. There in lies a potential problem for your future ambitions.

This is the circuit.

Now the input is right at the driver/phase splitter stage. The 12SL7 tube is actually two triode tubes under one glass. This two tubes as well as providing some voltage amplification then split the signal into +ve and -ve phases, which are then amplified by the dual push/pull KT 88 pentodes.

Now it is much more usual to have a voltage amp stage like an EF 86 tube ahead of the driver stage.

The issue is that this amp is not highly sensitive because of the lack of a voltage amplifier first stage and requires 1.5 volts input for full modulation, whereas 700 mv will be batter suited to an AV pre pro or receiver with pre outs that is more suited to the modern AV world than a tube preamp.

If this is going to be an audio only system then your Dad's tube preamp/power amp combo will work. You could ask you dad to build bass management into the preamp. This can be done with tubes, but is better and more easily done with IC opamp chips. May be he should consider a hybrid preamp. I assume he will build an RIAA input into the preamp for your turntable.

Your other option is to use this tube system as a nice analog music only system and then put together a more modern AV system so you can get a picture as well as audio, and stream all the digital media you want and has HDMI inputs.

 

[Funky Zero]

First of all I think that amp will drive the SVS towers. Since this is a preamp/amp situation, a crossover for sub and bass management can be inserted between preamp and amp.

I appreciate the quite detailed reply, it was nice of you to take the time to do that. Since I am in over my head, it's going to take me some time to figure out and absorb most of what you just told me, but it's information like this that helps me prime to know what I need to read.
Thanks again!

Oh, and yes he did mention the preamp included a circuit for a phono input

 

[ski2xblack]

This is kind of a pickle.

Usually, when putting together a sound system, you start with the speakers, choosing the ones that sound good to your ears and will work well in your particular situation. That choice in turn dictates how much amplification you need.

But your father is charging ahead by building some tube gear for you, a very kind, if perhaps misguided, gesture, and one you cannot disregard.

Given the low power of the amp he's building, I would suggest going toward much more sensitive speakers. I wouldn't consider anything unless it was north of 95 db/w/m. Something like THESE (which I have built and used with all sorts of low powered amps) would pair very nicely with the amp your father is building. They happen to sound fantastic, and have robust and deep enough bass response that a sub is optional.

You should consider a universal player with aux digital inputs. That would allow you to feed the flac files from your computer and play the discs you have, while allowing you to work with the kit your father is building.

 

[Funky Zero]

This is kind of a pickle.

Usually, when putting together a sound system, you start with the speakers, choosing the ones that sound good to your ears and will work well in your particular situation. That choice in turn dictates how much amplification you need.

But your father is charging ahead by building some tube gear for you, a very kind, if perhaps misguided, gesture, and one you cannot disregard.

Given the low power of the amp he's building, I would suggest going toward much more sensitive speakers. I wouldn't consider anything unless it was north of 95 db/w/m. Something like THESE (which I have built and used with all sorts of low powered amps) would pair very nicely with the amp your father is building. They happen to sound fantastic, and have robust and deep enough bass response that a sub is optional.

You should consider a universal player with aux digital inputs. That would allow you to feed the flac files from your computer and play the discs you have, while allowing you to work with the kit your father is building.

That's really interesting... and guess what, even "I" can glue together a speaker cab kit. What sort of mid performance did you get out of them... if you could compare them to something mainstream?

 

[ski2xblack]

They really don't compare to much in the mainstream, unless you consider JTR, Seaton, and such mainstream. Otherwise, the comparison is just not fair. The closest commercial speaker would probably be something like a Klipsch Cornwall, and these newer SEOS designs by Jeff Bagby and company sound far better than the old Klipsch monkey coffins (IMO of course, but I do have these and old Klipsch to compare). At a legit 98 db/w/m, they can get quite loud on little power; compared to less sensitive speakers, they exhibit considerably less speaker induced distortion, giving a very open, relaxed, and revealing sound at normal domestic listening levels. They're voiced on the warm side, very smooth across the mids, and have the sort of dynamic range that few speakers can match. They peg the "fun factor" meter. Highly recommended.

 

[slipperybidness]

Your other option is to use this tube system as a nice analog music only system and then put together a more modern AV system so you can get a picture as well as audio, and stream all the digital media you want and has HDMI inputs.

If it were me, I would tend to go this route.

I've never heard the Oddwatts, but have wanted to for a long time.

And, I think you are getting great info from ski on the correct approach for speakers to pair with them.

I bet you that a complete DIY setup with speakers and the oddwatts would sound nice indeed!

Of course, you already have the Oddwatts, and the SVS speakers, so I would hook those up for a listen too. It's free at this point and you may find that you really like that combo anyway.

 

[Funky Zero]

Actually, I don't have the speakers yet. I had kind-of pointed myself in that direction, but haven't bought them yet. However, after looking at those DIY kits and hearing about his experience, I may have just changed my mind. I'm going to chew on this one. It definitely saves me a was of cash for sure.

 

[herbu]

However, after looking at those DIY kits and hearing about his experience, I may have just changed my mind.

It would be pretty cool to have a system built by you and your dad.

 

[Funky Zero]

It would be pretty cool to have a system built by you and your dad.

I was kind of thinking along the same lines as I was going over these plans. Dad has a way about things. I talked to him last night and asked which case he got for the preamp and he told me he didn't want it. He made the preamp case out of Cherry.. haha. I'll be the only guy in Indy with a wooden preamp. It's gonna be really cool and will always have his style written all over it.