Rotel RB-1552 MKll

[EvanSpurlock]

Has anyone ever heard or had any experience with the Rotel Rb 1552 on the B&W CM 10 S2's? I heard the Ra-12 on a pair of 683's and like the sound of the Rotel, but I didn't get to hear the Rotel on the CM 10's. Im sure the 1552 would sound great on them, but I was just curious if anyone has ever heard it. Thanks!

 

[everettT]

You will find that the majority of users here don't believe that amplification has sound. If an amp has sound then it's A. Not linear B. Clipping C. Damaged D. Owned by a goldenear . As long as the amp can drive the speakers to the levels you want , purchase it. Most decide on avrs and intergeated units based on features. What most will strive for is the least $ per watt

 

[dave-t]

I have both the 1572 and 1572 (250 watts per channel)on a 7.1 surround system with B&W Xt4, XTC, CCm683 and XT2 and Velodyne DD10. The Rotel amps sound amazing they really transformed the speakers and brought them alive. My receiver is a Denon 4308ci which pushes 140 watts per channel, adding the amps and using the receiver as a processor changed the sound of the speakers in better way. Some say that D class amps are to bright and not warm like class AB but i do not find that to be the case. B&W speakers in general are wattage hogs the more power you give them the better they sound.

 

[everettT]

How does an amp have sound? Speakers have sound thats what you hear . Your post reads like a sales pitch. As for B&W being power hogs, that's pretty generalized and not necessarily accurate. There is one member here that drove his 802d2s with a denon 3312 with no issues. We all want to believe that more (expensive and wattage) is better, but its not necessarily true. If people would put more money towards speakers and less in electronics they would be much more satisfied.

I have both the 1572 and 1572 (250 watts per channel)on a 7.1 surround system with B&W Xt4, XTC, CCm683 and XT2 and Velodyne DD10. The Rotel amps sound amazing they really transformed the speakers and brought them alive. My receiver is a Denon 4308ci which pushes 140 watts per channel, adding the amps and using the receiver as a processor changed the sound of the speakers in better way. Some say that D class amps are to bright and not warm like class AB but i do not find that to be the case. B&W speakers in general are wattage hogs the more power you give them the better they sound.

 

[dave-t]

I do not sell av equipment, I was also skeptical at first until I heard the difference. They sounded like completely different speakers with the added headroom the extra wattage provided. All I am saying is that I am happy with my purchase decision and the op should not discount the d class amps. I also play my home theater loud so am sure the extra wattage helped. We then come to the discussion about separates verse receivers with built in amps and we both know that there are two thoughts on that. I agree that most people want the most wattage for the least amount of money in the smallest unit because restate in an AV cabinet can be hard to come by.

 

[Swerd]

It's important to remember that the company that owns B&W also owns Rotel. Likewise, the dealers that sell B&W speakers also sell Rotel amps and receivers.

Many B&W speaker owners, or those interested in buying them, ask about buying more powerful Rotel amps. This, in my opinion, is driven by salesmen who are motivated by sales commissions.

 

[Patrick Butler]

Hi Swerd,

While we distribute Rotel internationally, we do not own Rotel.

Regards,

Patrick
B&W Group North America

It's important to remember that the company that owns B&W also owns Rotel. Likewise, the dealers that sell B&W speakers also sell Rotel amps and receivers.

Many B&W speaker owners, or those interested in buying them, ask about buying more powerful Rotel amps. This, in my opinion, is driven by salesmen who are motivated by sales commissions.

 

[Swerd]

Hi Swerd,

While we distribute Rotel internationally, we do not own Rotel.

Regards,

Patrick
B&W Group North America

Thanks for the reply. I stand partially corrected.

Nonetheless, it was my experience in the past, and that of some others, that salesmen tried to sell both B&W speakers and Rotel products (and not other electronic products) to customers at the same time.

 

[Patrick Butler]

That only some salespeople sell Rotel with Bowers & Wilkins just goes to show that I need to work on my sales trainings!

Regards,

Patrick
B&W Group North America

Thanks for the reply. I stand partially corrected.

Nonetheless, it was my experience in the past, and that of some others, that salesmen tried to sell both B&W speakers and Rotel products (and not other electronic products) to customers at the same time.

 

[PENG]

I have both the 1572 and 1572 (250 watts per channel)on a 7.1 surround system with B&W Xt4, XTC, CCm683 and XT2 and Velodyne DD10. The Rotel amps sound amazing they really transformed the speakers and brought them alive. My receiver is a Denon 4308ci which pushes 140 watts per channel, adding the amps and using the receiver as a processor changed the sound of the speakers in better way. Some say that D class amps are to bright and not warm like class AB but i do not find that to be the case. B&W speakers in general are wattage hogs the more power you give them the better they sound.

I have had used a 4308 with and without a power amp and found no noticeable difference in sound quality. The XT4 does have impedance dips and probably slightly below average sensitivity. As such, if you listen at reference level and sit 4 meter away or further in a medium large to large room, adding a 300W/500W (8/4 ohms) may help the peaks, but only the peaks. It shouldn't make such obvious difference as to "transformed" the speakers. If it did that for you, then I would suspect there were other hidden factors.

By the way, based on specs, the XT4 don't seem to be designed for playing too loud. B&W recommended 50/150W so take it from there.

 

[PENG]

Has anyone ever heard or had any experience with the Rotel Rb 1552 on the B&W CM 10 S2's? I heard the Ra-12 on a pair of 683's and like the sound of the Rotel, but I didn't get to hear the Rotel on the CM 10's. Im sure the 1552 would sound great on them, but I was just curious if anyone has ever heard it. Thanks!

If you are sure if you need more power, why not go for something more robust, such as:

http://www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/100rotel/#Wg0o8LJ5Qtb6tuU1.97
http://www.ati-amp.com/AT3000.php
http://www.parasound.com/vintage/hca3500.php
http://www.crownaudio.com/en/products/xls-2000

You need 2X watts to gain 3 dB in sound pressure level so the little RB1572 isn't going to make much difference for your CM10 S2s.

 

[mtrycrafts]

You will find that the majority of users here don't believe that amplification has sound.

I surely hope than amplification increases that boom or bass drum.

 

[mtrycrafts]

.. Some say that D class amps are to bright and not warm like class AB but i do not find that to be the case. ...

You are right. If that was the case though, the frequency response plot would reflect this flawed perception.

 

[Patrick Butler]

Question- would a frequency response plot reflect intermodulation distortion?

Regards,

Patrick
B&W Group North America

You are right. If that was the case though, the frequency response plot would reflect this flawed perception.

 

[TLS Guy]

Question- would a frequency response plot reflect intermodulation distortion?

Regards,

Patrick
B&W Group North America

You have posed a complex question. To get IM it implies a least some degree of non linearity. However a frequency plot uses single tones, and very likely will not reveal it.

Now this relates to slew rate. If the slew rate is high enough that the amp can produce full power within it bandwidth, then a signal at the top end of the bandwidth combined with a signal of a frequency lower in the bandwidth will not induce IM in a linear amplifier.

IM implies distortion produced by more than one frequency interfering with another.

Even if the slew rate is low enough the full bandwidth is not available at full power in the upper frequencies you are unlikely to hear IM on musical program, as the power in music is limited in the upper frequency range. If that were not so we would blow up tweeters all the time!

 

[sonicgoose]

As it so happens I just very recently bought an Rotel rb-1572, class d 250w per channel amp.

I have Boston acoustic M340 frontspeakers, with an Pioneer sc-1223 a/v receiver. The speakers have an maximum 350w output. The m340 have 4 4 1/2 bass woofers each. So they are really capable of putting out some great bass!

I was really unsure if the Rotel would make any difference. But after I listened for 5 seconds it became obvious what a major difference the Rotel made! The bass was now much more precise, quick and punchy. Such an difference!

The overall sound also got larger, as in a more dynamic and "open" sound. Everything just opened up. The speakers really went alive! I have been enjoying my music library as never before these last days.

As an example, I have listened everything from Radiohead, Pink Floyd, classical to jazz and rock. The Rotel just made everything so much better.

I believe that those who say that an amp makes no difference in sound must be using speakers which don't need this much power as the m340 or b&w.

The Rotel is not only for listening to loud music, but really does give the speakers some "legroom".

Or maybe it is just cool to say that electronics is electronics, 100$ or 1000$, there is no difference. But listen for your self and try it if you can, for me at least it has made my music come "alive", and is worth every penny.

 

[mtrycrafts]

As it so happens I just very recently bought an Rotel rb-1572, class d 250w per channel amp.

I have Boston acoustic M340 frontspeakers, with an Pioneer sc-1223 a/v receiver. The speakers have an maximum 350w output. The m340 have 4 4 1/2 bass woofers each. So they are really capable of putting out some great bass!

Welcome. Great place to learn. Should check out the home page tab AV research for great articles that mean something.

Firstly, speakers don't put out power in watts, they can consume power. I believe that is an article in that aforementioned location as well.

Those four 4.5" speakers are equivalent to a 9" speaker in surface area. The frequency band for that speaker is 45Hz on the low end, and that is debateable.

I was really unsure if the Rotel would make any difference. But after I listened for 5 seconds it became obvious what a major difference the Rotel made! The bass was now much more precise, quick and punchy. Such an difference!

Maybe, maybe not. That Pioneer is not very powerful to begin with and your speaker is not very sensitive. Perhaps you also like to listen very loudly?

The overall sound also got larger, as in a more dynamic and "open" sound. Everything just opened up. The speakers really went alive! I have been enjoying my music library as never before these last days.

Perhaps the infatuation with that powerful amp caused your subconscious to to bias your judgement?
And, of course, your comparison was also sighted, levels not matched between the two amps.

I believe that those who say that an amp makes no difference in sound must be using speakers which don't need this much power as the m340 or b&w.

Well, it may be, or maybe not. Since your comparison quality is in question, who knows.

The Rotel is not only for listening to loud music, but really does give the speakers some "legroom".

Not sure what that means.

Or maybe it is just cool to say that electronics is electronics, 100$ or 1000$, there is no difference. But listen for your self and try it if you can, for me at least it has made my music come "alive", and is worth every penny.

Well, no, it is not cool but in most cases a reality backed up by careful protocols, levels matched to a tight tolerance and of course, double blind.
So, perhaps you should try to learn about the proper protocols for meaningful outcomes and try a double blind test, perhaps with an audio club if they do such comparisons; the truth teller of a comparison.

Hope you will find this place educational in the end.

 

[sonicgoose]

Yeah, no suprises there This forum seems very very anti-amp...

Thank for your reply and educational information. However I do not need to go to a club to make 20 blindtests with careful protocols etc etc...

I just reported my findings, and even though some people here have for some reason decided that all amps are the same, their loss

However the OP have now some other answers than the usual "aaah its all the same just signals in and out!!!".

 

[PENG]

I just reported my findings, and even though some people here have for some reason decided that all amps are the same, their loss

To be fair, it is not that simple. Typically one side would claim well designed amps (not amps) when used within their output capability, would not sound audibly different to most people in AB comparison listening when bias is removed. The other side tended to claim even under the same comparison criteria, amps would sound different and easy to pick up, even night and day difference were often mentioned.

To those who listened and ended up saving money, or spending on things, such as better speakers that count more, skipping amps that could not get them what they were looking for, it can hardly be considered "loss". To those who went ahead and purchase their amps, they may "gain", if they believe the amps in fact offered them what they were hoping for.

However the OP have now some other answers than the usual "aaah its all the same just signals in and out!!!".

On this forum, you probably will have hard time finding people making such simplistic statements. I do see often, people on the other camp claimed "night and day" difference.

Many of the people you may be referring to, do own amps and have years of experience with all kinds of amps. I bet most of them used to be "believers", but after spending lots of money and efforts, they realized something that they didn't, in their earlier years in this hobby. I wouldn't call them anti amp, as they simply felt the need to present the other side of the story based on their own experience, and knowledge. You are doing the same right?

 

[sonicgoose]

To those who listened and ended up saving money, or spending on things, such as better speakers that count more, skipping amps that could not get them what they were looking for, it can hardly be considered "loss". To those who went ahead and purchase their amps, they may "gain", if they believe the amps in fact offered them what they were hoping for.

On this forum, you probably will have hard time finding people making such simplistic statements. I do see often, people on the other camp claimed "night and day" difference.

First of all I think that your view is a much more objective and reasonable one than previously given. Regarding my own system, I already have (for me at least) quite expensive speakers, bought for 1150$ on discount. I had these connected to the wonderful Pioneer A/V. If we would believe the dogma of "every amp sounds the same", I should instead have bought another pair of expensive speakers, when the problem was not the speakers, but the weak Pioneer A/V amp (as mtrycrafts himself stated previously).

In my case it would be silly to buy new speakers, when the amp was the weak link in the system. For me a good stereo Rotel amp was the right solution. It may be I could have bought an weaker Rotel amp, or a another more cheaper stereo amp, who knows. But in any case, the Rotel really made an great difference for me. The difference is not night and day, but more like the last 5-10% sound quality push that made the Boston Acoustic M340 really come alive.

Heck, it could be the last 1% sound improvement for all I know, but it still made the music come alive, and the bass to bloom to its fullest potential. I have an 12 inch subwoofer for movies, but for music I prefer to have clearly defined bass that the M340 gives out.

I understand that there is an sentiment that if many people here have bought an good amplifier to begin with, and then try to improve the sound by buying an even more expensive one, they get disappointed when they hear no audible difference. In this case it is of course a better solution to buy better speakers instead.

But if you already have good speakers, but a not so good ordinary a/v receiver, then I believe you will benefit from upgrading the amp. At least I did.

Thanks for the great reply btw Peng!