Ceiling speakers for background music

[Onepointtwentyonegigawatt]

I have an odd shaped open concept area where I'd like to install 4 ceiling speakers for background music. I have 2x100 watt channels open on a 9.2 receiver capable of multiple zones. I'm new to home audio, but I'm thinking I have three options:

1) wire in two lefts and two rights, knowing that I probably won't get good stereo effect most places in the room

2)wire 4 speakers as mono-is this a function of the receiver or of the wiring?

3) use 4 stereo input speakers

Do I have my options right? Is there a clear "best"? Other options?

This won't be for critical listening, and I would like to install a wall mounted volume control, if that makes a difference.

 

[lovinthehd]

I have no experience with such a setup but if you can indeed use your avr like mine to set two amps each for zone 2 & 3, then I'd wire each pair to a zone and simply change amp assign as needed, rather than think of wiring one amp pair to all four speakers. That way if the dual stereo mode doesn't work well, you still have the choice of running mono as a mode in the avr rather than wiring that way. I'd use a phone app to control volume myself via wifi.

Wiring for a pair in mono to each zone may be okay depending on your speakers' impedance...try this article on wiring http://cie-wc.edu/Series_Parallel_9_14.pdf

 

[TheWarrior]

You cannot drive two speakers on one channel, period! You will damage your receiver's amp! Receivers are not set up for distributed audio, the demands are different. Either use only 2 ceiling speakers, in stereo, or buy a separate amp. A proper D/A amplifier will get you the mono output you seek.

 

[Onepointtwentyonegigawatt]

Thanks to both of you for your responses, especially for that link, above. @TheWarrior, so wiring two speakers @8 ohms in series to a single 140watt channel could damage the amp? From the article it seems like the concern is that low impedance, from parallel wiring, is where the danger would be. I'm not concerned about the power loss since it's just background music. It seems like this would work for a regular amp but you are saying a powered receiver is different?

For reference, I'm using a yamaha 2050 receiver, powering a 5.1 system, with 2 outdoor speakers on two channels, so I've just got the 2 channels left. Buying an external amp is certainly an option, I was just looking for simplicity.

 

[TheWarrior]

Correct, parallel wiring halves the impedance.

Receiver amps, even top dollar ones, are really limited in their output capabilities. Heat is a major issue, and with receivers including video processing now(ever wonder why PC's have dedicated fans for video cards?) that alone limits how powerful of an amp can be included in a receiver, or a single box, for that matter. And because you are seeking each channel to receive a mono signal, that isn't even an option for a receiver designed solely for HT and stereo playback.

 

[Onepointtwentyonegigawatt]

Ok, so, if instead I use a separate amp, or, more likely, use a separate amp to power my outdoor speakers and use 4 channels to power 4 ceiling speakers, would the best solution be to have 2 lefts and 2 rights, or have 4 mono? From above, it looks like I should be able to set them to mono from the avr, and not wire them any different?

Thanks for the help!

 

[lovinthehd]

Keep in mind speaker impedance values as stated by the manufacturer are nominal, they will vary above and below the nominal impedance with frequency, so an 8 ohm speaker might swing as low as 4 ohms, so if you halve that you could be down to 2 ohm loads at points in the frequency spectrum. AVR amps aren't generally the best amps for 2-4 ohm impedance loads but at lower volume for background music would probably be okay, but could send the avr into protection mode at higher volume levels.

You could easily add an outboard amp (or amps) to your zone channel(s), too, to avoid any issues.

 

[TheWarrior]

Ok, so, if instead I use a separate amp, or, more likely, use a separate amp to power my outdoor speakers and use 4 channels to power 4 ceiling speakers, would the best solution be to have 2 lefts and 2 rights, or have 4 mono? From above, it looks like I should be able to set them to mono from the avr, and not wire them any different?

Thanks for the help!

No, re-read my post.

If these 4 speakers are located so that they are distributing the sound throughout the house, or a very large great-room i.e., you would want them receiving a mono signal. There is something called the precedence effect that allows the mind to perceive one image, from a stereo pair. Achieving that from the ceiling without a dedicated listening position is impossible. You want mono, which means you need a distributed audio amp.

 

[Onepointtwentyonegigawatt]

Something like this?

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_543D850/Russound-D850.html?tp=9414&awkw=140063386585&awat=pla&awnw=g&awcr=75378111745&awdv=m

That's not overkill for background speakers?

 

[lovinthehd]

Maybe a pair of these http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-apa100-class-ab-stereo-amplifier-60-wpc--300-590

 

[TheWarrior]

Something like this?

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_543D850/Russound-D850.html?tp=9414&awkw=140063386585&awat=pla&awnw=g&awcr=75378111745&awdv=m

That's not overkill for background speakers?

Both this and lovinthehd's suggestion still rely on stereo. 'Distributed Audio' products are what you are searching for, but given the number of questions I'd need to ask to try and recommend, all I can do is give you the correct search keyword.

 

[lovinthehd]

Both this and lovinthehd's suggestion still rely on stereo. 'Distributed Audio' products are what you are searching for, but given the number of questions I'd need to ask to try and recommend, all I can do is give you the correct search keyword.

Why not simply set the zone to mono output?

 

[TheWarrior]

Why not simply set the zone to mono output?

There's only two channels available for 4 speakers.

 

[Onepointtwentyonegigawatt]

I'll research distributed audio, for certain, but if I can't set the zone to mono as noted above, and I'm buying an external amp anyway, couldn't I use 4 stereo input speakers like the Polk rc6s driven by 2 channels each off the russound?

 

[TheWarrior]

Assuming mono output is even an option on his receiver, anyway!

 

[Onepointtwentyonegigawatt]

Or, alternatively, just try to see if two speakers covers the space. Then, I can use the yamaha and set the zone to mono? I just can't wire an additional speaker in series when I do it that way, correct?

Thanks for the help, new to home audio but used to doing my own work elsewhere!

 

[TheWarrior]

Or, alternatively, just try to see if two speakers covers the space. Then, I can use the yamaha and set the zone to mono? I just can't wire an additional speaker in series when I do it that way, correct?

Thanks for the help, new to home audio but used to doing my own work elsewhere!

Distributed audio and home theater are two very different animals. If you want to go with only two, and the receiver can be configured for mono, great! I can't recommend using them in stereo L/R because it will sound different everywhere in the room. Is it a simple solution you may adapt to(using two in stereo)? Maybe, but I just don't want to steer you toward installing in ceiling speakers only to be disappointed.

 

[lovinthehd]

There's only two channels available for 4 speakers.

He can possibly double up for his use if he chooses higher impedance speakers, 16ohm for example, or take some risks with the 8 ohm. Many people have done this with amps for years (with A&B speakers run simultaneously) and the world didn't end. Just at louder playback levels is this likely to be an issue.

A four channel amp or a pair of two channel amps on the preouts for one or two zones would likely be the better way to go, though.

@Onepointtwentyonegigawatt what avr are you using?

 

[Onepointtwentyonegigawatt]

A yamaha 2050.

 

[Onepointtwentyonegigawatt]

And, just out of curiosity, if I can set a zone to mono output, would wiring the speakers in series, two to a channel, still be a problem?