Power conditioners and blackouts

[moves]

Hi,

I've been talking to APC all week in trying to find a product to protect my equipment. My question is, when the power randomly goes out, blackout, can this sudden shutdown damage equipment?

APC said that it can and thus need a battery backup to safely shut down equipment. I want to see what everyone's opinion was on this.

They have the H series which has voltage regulation and higher Wattage capacity. The battery operated ones have lower wattage capacity but has the battery backup.

 

[its phillip]

I use a couple of these:
https://smile.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP1500PFCLCD-Sinewave-Compatible-Mini-Tower/dp/B00429N19W/

 

[Blue Dude]

I have one of these: https://www.amazon.com/APC-J35B-8-Outlet-Conditioner-Battery/dp/B003GSLL2O
I have everything (receiver, TV, projector, sources) except the amplifier and the subwoofers plugged into this unit. The battery is really for allowing a clean shutdown of your equipment, especially equipment with critical heat fans such as a projector. It's not for seamless operation through a brownout or blackout.

 

[j_garcia]

You don't really need a battery. That's mainly for computer based systems and bulb based projection systems IMO. For most HTs something that shuts down without spiking voltage should be sufficient. I've used my H10 for years without issue including a number of blackouts with no issues.

 

[moves]

You don't really need a battery. That's mainly for computer based systems and bulb based projection systems IMO. For most HTs something that shuts down without spiking voltage should be sufficient. I've used my H10 for years without issue including a number of blackouts with no issues.

You don't think that blackouts will harm your system with the H10 or 15?

 

[j_garcia]

You don't think that blackouts will harm your system with the H10 or 15?

Potential is there always, but thus far it has never happened. In the 5 or 6 times it has happened in the last 3 or 4 years the unit shuts off immediately.

 

[moves]

Potential is there always, but thus far it has never happened. In the 5 or 6 times it has happened in the last 3 or 4 years the unit shuts off immediately.

The units shut off because the power went out lol. I don't believe that the H10 or 15 have anything to protect against blackouts.

 

[j_garcia]

The units shut off because the power went out lol. I don't believe that the H10 or 15 have anything to protect against blackouts.

Not sure what the difference is? Power outage/blackout same thing.

 

[moves]

Not sure what the difference is? Power outage/blackout same thing.

Yes same thing but I am just saying that I don't think the H10 has anything to protect from blackouts.

 

[j_garcia]

Sounds like you'll need to pony up for one with a battery then.

 

[Diesel57]

Not being sarcastic but what is the difference in a power outage and a blackout?

 

[moves]

Not being sarcastic but what is the difference in a power outage and a blackout?

There is no difference.

 

[moves]

Here is a convo I just had with APC chat line. I am not sure if he is that knowledgable though. He is saying the receivers and t.v. won't be harmed by blackouts so a battery is not needed on these types of equipment. However, the receiver has chips that process Dolby etc. so wouldn't this benefit from a battery backup?

agha
Hello Attila, thank you for contacting APC by Schneider Electric, my name is Ragha. How may I help you?

1:57:31 PM
Me
I may be considering a new H15 from you but I am worried about blackouts damaging my Av equipment as it has no battery.... are blackouts something that I should be worried about? I would be connecting my t.v. and receiver to the unit

1:58:06 PM
Ragha
Attila, for a TV and receiver normally H15 device would work fine.

1:59:52 PM
However, if there is more blackouts in your area, then you may need a Av unit with battery.

2:00:14 PM
Me
is there a high risk of damage to equipment during a blackout?

2:00:51 PM
Ragha
We have not come across any such issues.

2:02:21 PM
If the input power is more impure or if there is lot of power cuts, then you can opt for a unit with battery.

2:03:17 PM
Me
wouldn't the AVR on the H15 handle that without the need for a battery?

2:04:06 PM
Ragha
H series device would have the input voltage regulation feature. Only if you need battery backup during blackouts then you need a unit which will have battery. All other features would remain same.

2:05:53 PM
Also note that H15 device has been discontinued few years back.

2:06:19 PM
Me
sorry i mean h15 BLK

2:06:30 PM
Ragha
H15BLK is the recommended replacement model for this unit.

2:06:30 PM
Okay.

2:06:41 PM
Me
that didn't answer my question though. you said If the input power is more impure or if there is lot of power cuts, then you can opt for a unit with battery. Wouldn't the AVR on the h15BLK handle the power cuts or impure power?

2:07:50 PM
Ragha
Well, the AV unit will stabilize the input power if it was within the acceptable range, if the input voltage fluctuates randomly below the threshold , then AV unit would eventually cut power to connected devices in order to protect them instead of allowing a very high or very low voltage.

2:09:58 PM
Me
ok thats good

2:10:58 PM
Ragha
I am sorry for confusion.

2:11:30 PM
Me
now I am trying to wrap my head around the purpose of a battery in a home theatre application

2:11:34 PM
Ragha
H series AV unit will provide: Surge & Spike Protection, Noise Filtering, Voltage Regulation.

2:15:34 PM
Only if your application device requires sometime to power off safely during a power outage then you will need a AV unit which contains battery

2:16:36 PM
Me
but when do you need this?

2:17:20 PM
Ragha
The units with battery will protect DVR recordings, system pre-sets & eliminates interruptions due to power outages.

2:18:34 PM
Me
so in your opinion for safety, the H15 is plenty for Home theatre protection because blackouts don't harm t.v. and receivers?

2:19:32 PM
Ragha
Yes, that is correct.

 

[j_garcia]

Chips are not the issue since a receiver is generally well configured for shedding heat. A computer likes to not be shut off instantly because it may be in the middle of processing something that could affect the OS and thus be a more serious issue. Projectors may have fans that run to keep the bulb/system cool during a shut down period, so again, it may be a benefit but with current projectors and bulbs that may be a lesser issue now.

Your receiver does not need a battery backup. Worst case you end up re-running calibration, but other than that, unless you are in the middle of a firmware update, it shouldn't be an issue. If you have an event that actually cooks something, then a battery backup wouldn't have made any difference.

 

[moves]

Your receiver does not need a battery backup. Worst case you end up re-running calibration, but other than that, unless you are in the middle of a firmware update, it shouldn't be an issue. If you have an event that actually cooks something, then a battery backup wouldn't have made any difference.

I am interested in the battery because of possible blackouts and not because of high or low voltage coming in. So you are saying that blackouts are not an issue for my t.v. and the AVR?

 

[moves]

I got another guy from APC telling me that blackouts will harm my t.v.... I thought this was a pretty basic question for the pros lol....

 

[j_garcia]

Never ask for advice from a company that wants to sell you their product whether or not you NEED their product.

The answer will ALWAYS be yes, unless you are Dennis Murphy I'm not selling anything.

 

[moves]

I found an APC S15 older model for $250 CAD I may just pick that up.

 

[TLS Guy]

Chips are not the issue since a receiver is generally well configured for shedding heat. A computer likes to not be shut off instantly because it may be in the middle of processing something that could affect the OS and thus be a more serious issue. Projectors may have fans that run to keep the bulb/system cool during a shut down period, so again, it may be a benefit but with current projectors and bulbs that may be a lesser issue now.

Your receiver does not need a battery backup. Worst case you end up re-running calibration, but other than that, unless you are in the middle of a firmware update, it shouldn't be an issue. If you have an event that actually cooks something, then a battery backup wouldn't have made any difference.

I think it depends where you live. Here we have bad storms. Last week, there was no forecast of bad weather, other than perhaps a localized mild thunderstorm. In the evening the alarm on the weather radio went off. I checked the Doppler radar out of Duluth and Grand Forks, and saw hellish storms almost right here. By the time I put my computer down the lights were going on off repeatedly and also dimming and going super bright. My UPS units were catching it all and keeping a steady state to the equipment racks. As I was racing down to the utility room to start the generator, the power went out and the generator started by itself. It starts after the power is out for 5 sec continuously and did.

The house was on generator for 17 hours. It was very hot and humid. I was glad of the generator as the whole house operated normally including the AC. In lakes country you don't even have water when the power goes out as the well pumps don't run. Some were without power for about a week and very miserable.

We had a fair bit of tree damage. I had to push trees out of the way to open up our private road and the township road. The canopy of the boat lift sustained significant damage, quite a few round the lake were blown off or shredded. Power lines were down all over the place, with two breaks on our private road alone. These seem to be yearly events, although this year we have had three events knocking out the power. Three years ago we lost 16 trees in one storm.


We had trees down and our cars were blocked in. I had to get the chain saw out and push trees out of the way with the JD Model A tractor.

The point is I'm pretty sure I would have had major equipment damage without my Smart UPS systems. They paid for themselves last week if they had not before. Modern electronics would not have stood that abuse.

 

[highfigh]

Hi,

I've been talking to APC all week in trying to find a product to protect my equipment. My question is, when the power randomly goes out, blackout, can this sudden shutdown damage equipment?

APC said that it can and thus need a battery backup to safely shut down equipment. I want to see what everyone's opinion was on this.

They have the H series which has voltage regulation and higher Wattage capacity. The battery operated ones have lower wattage capacity but has the battery backup.

How the power goes out makes more of a difference than if it goes out. If it toggles off/on/off/on several times, anything with a microprocessor won't be happy- lights and motors don't experience the same effects. I have used more UPS from Minuteman with good results. I installed one for a customer and while he was creating a document on the desktop computer, their power went out. He turned to his wife and said "Well, that just paid for itself". I have been in their house during thunderstorms and one time, I heard a loud snapping sound in the room where the main AV rack is located- the Furman never missed a beat and none of the equipment has had any problems in the 9 years since I installed it. I suspect an APC would work just as well.

I bought a Panamax for my AV system mainly because it shuts off below 90VAC and above 140VAC, but I should probably have a battery backup for my ReQuest server. Some power protection doesn't shut off until 180VAC or higher and some don't bother to do anything until about 300VAC- not what I would call 'protection'.