Need help with choosing a budget subwoofer - some used options included

[yonyz]

Hmmm... Decisions decisions.

My speakers are SAMSON Resolv A8.
I thought maybe the Behringer would allow me to change to passive speakers some time, but never mind that.

I think I'l go with the cleaner solution of a plate amp.

80 hz seems to be a popular choice for a high pass filter on bookshelf speaker systems, so maybe I could use these instead and add them to each cable that goes from the sub to the speaker?

http://www.parts-express.com/parts-express-80-hz-high-pass-4-ohm-crossover--266-456

Or I could buy a miniDSP and get the benefit of all of its nice features. Or a used receiver. No idea, really. :\

Edit: those passive filters I linked to won't work, apparently, because they're 4 ohm and line level outputs have less impedance.

So maybe I'll get the miniDSP. I'm still trying to figure out if it can do what I want it to do. I found a seller on eBay that ships it for free Worldwide, which is nice for a change.

To keep the overall costs low, I'll borrow a jigsaw from someone and I'll try to make most of the panels of the enclosure, except for the two front baffles.

 

[rojo]

Hmmm... Decisions decisions.

My speakers are SAMSON Resolv A8.
I thought maybe the Behringer would allow me to change to passive speakers some time, but never mind that.

I think I'l go with the cleaner solution of a plate amp.

80 hz seems to be a popular choice for a high pass filter on bookshelf speaker systems, so maybe I could use these instead and add them to each cable that goes from the sub to the speaker?

http://www.parts-express.com/parts-express-80-hz-high-pass-4-ohm-crossover--266-456

Or I could buy a miniDSP and get the benefit of all of its nice features. Or a used receiver. No idea, really. :\

Edit: those passive filters I linked to won't work, apparently, because they're 4 ohm and line level outputs have less impedance.

So maybe I'll get the miniDSP. I'm still trying to figure out if it can do what I want it to do. I found a seller on eBay that ships it for free Worldwide, which is nice for a change.

To keep the overall costs low, I'll borrow a jigsaw from someone and I'll try to make most of the panels of the enclosure, except for the two front baffles.

Those Samson monitors look quite capable. I'd say there's no harm in running them full range. A miniDSP 2x4 RevA + 4way Advanced plugin would certainly be a nice addition if you change your mind later, but it seems that for now at least, completing your project under budget is more crucial than crossing over your mains.

You'll also need to borrow wood clamps, something like these. Lots of clamps. What was your carpenter going to charge for completing all cuts and assembly?

 

[yonyz]

Those Samson monitors look quite capable. I'd say there's no harm in running them full range. A miniDSP 2x4 RevA + 4way Advanced plugin would certainly be a nice addition if you change your mind later, but it seems that for now at least, completing your project under budget is more crucial than crossing over your mains.

You'll also need to borrow wood clamps, something like these. Lots of clamps. What was your carpenter going to charge for completing all cuts and assembly?

About $110 for the first sketch. Now there are two front baffles and that curved port. What are the clamps used for?

Also, it's very important for me to implement a high pass for the mains as it should help clear up their mids at higher volumes. With bass heavy content, mostly movies, the mids lose a noticeable amount of clarity.

 

[rojo]

About $110 for the first sketch. Now there are two front baffles and that curved port. What are the clamps used for?

Also, it's very important for me to implement a high pass for the mains as it should help clear up their mids at higher volumes. With bass heavy content, mostly movies, the mids lose a noticeable amount of clarity.

Clamps hold the wood pieces together while the glue dries. Example.

Unless you're just looking for the enjoyment of making something with your own hands, I'd say let your carpenter build it. $110 for the first box seems very reasonable, especially considering an unassembled sealed flat pack costs $120 from Parts-Express. If he could build and assemble the slot ported, double-baffle version for $200 or less, you should jump on that.

Regarding the high pass for the mains, you know, there's still the option of that unbranded generic Chinese amp with the 100Hz high pass filter on its line outs.

 

[yonyz]

Clamps hold the wood pieces together while the glue dries. Example.

Unless you're just looking for the enjoyment of making something with your own hands, I'd say let your carpenter build it. $110 for the first box seems very reasonable, especially considering an unassembled sealed flat pack costs $120 from Parts-Express. If he could build and assemble the slot ported, double-baffle version for $200 or less, you should jump on that.

Regarding the high pass for the mains, you know, there's still the option of that unbranded generic Chinese amp with the 100Hz high pass filter on its line outs.

Can't I use a pile of books instead?

Overall cost estimate:

$200 for an enclosure (hopefully less), $91 for a driver, roughly $300 for an SPA250 amp (Dayton), $40 for a high pass Fmod filter. That's $631, with no finish or paint for the box.

Gotta save on the enclosure or the amp somehow. I'll look into getting those clamps and maybe there's also a cheaper way to buy the amp.

 

[rojo]

Is there no one in Israel who sells plate amps for less?

This Dayton SPA250 appears to ship for $210 to Israel.

 

[yonyz]

Is there no one in Israel who sells plate amps for less?

This Dayton SPA250 appears to ship for $210 to Israel.

Thanks but that's not cheap. There's a 35% tax. This amp is heavy at over 13 lbs. The BASH 300s is just slightly above 3 lbs, and it costs $36 to ship. However, it's listed to only work with 120V, but if BASH hasn't changed the board, this can be changed:
http://www.jjensen.se/projekt/bash_300s.html

As mentioned, I have found a seller on eBay who ships it for $36. That's not a cheap shipping price, but it is shipped via standard mail and not express, which means a decent chance to avoid customs. Maybe the seller would even agree to declare a lower value on the package.

Without taxes it would be $200 which is a nice saving of $100, plus it's 300W and not 250.

Regarding the enclosure, what if I use nails to hold the pieces together while the glue dries? I'll then cut the "head" of the nails so that a veneer could attach nice and smooth.

 

[rojo]

Thanks but that's not cheap. There's a 35% tax. This amp is heavy at over 13 lbs. The BASH 300s is just slightly above 3 lbs, and it costs $36 to ship. However, it's listed to only work with 120V, but if BASH hasn't changed the board, this can be changed:
http://www.jjensen.se/projekt/bash_300s.html

As mentioned, I have found a seller on eBay who ships it for $36. That's not a cheap shipping price, but it is shipped via standard mail and not express, which means a decent chance to avoid customs. Maybe the seller would even agree to declare a lower value on the package.

Without taxes it would be $200 which is a nice saving of $100, plus it's 300W and not 250.

Regarding the enclosure, what if I use nails to hold the pieces together while the glue dries? I'll then cut the "head" of the nails so that a veneer could attach nice and smooth.

Nice find on the BASH 300. I have the BASH 500 in my SDX12 sub, and it's never given me any grief.

You could countersink wood screws or drywall screws so that the heads are sunk below the surface of the wood. Here's an explanation.

 

[yonyz]

OK, I'll definitely get the BASH and not the Dayton. The price difference is negligible and neither have a high passed output so...

Could you please modify the attached SketchUp file so that the amp will sit flush with the wood, like you did with the woofer cutout?

Thanks.

 

[rojo]

OK, I'll definitely get the BASH and not the Dayton. The price difference is negligible and neither have a high passed output so...

Could you please modify the attached SketchUp file so that the amp will sit flush with the wood, like you did with the woofer cutout?

Thanks.

Hmmm. I'm hesitant to add a second rear baffle to the design. Your sub is already going to be very heavy, and a second rear baffle might require you to add an additional sheet of MDF to your over-budget shopping list. With driver, amp, and wood, I think you're already looking at 50kg or more.

I just rendered a 4mm routered recess into the single rear baffle. The finished effect should be similar to this I think. I also reworked the brace since the Bash amp has smaller height.

 

[rojo]

Heh, cool. Found the Infinity 1260w driver in the SketchUp 3D Warehouse.

The face is painted charcoal gray. It looks nice with a little lighter shade, simply named "dark gray" as well.

I'll upload the model so you can play with colors too.

 

[yonyz]

Heh, cool. Found the Infinity 1260w driver in the SketchUp 3D Warehouse.

The face is painted charcoal gray. It looks nice with a little lighter shade, simply named "dark gray" as well.

I'll upload the model so you can play with colors too.

Great job on the recess and and the colors. The lighter grey definitely looks better due to the bright color of the driver.

A question though - why has the brace changed? It looked simpler before. I don't quite understand how the amp should affect it as long as there's room for the amp (and there is with the older brace).

Thanks again.

 

[rojo]

Great job on the recess and and the colors. The lighter grey definitely looks better due to the bright color of the driver.

A question though - why has the brace changed? It looked simpler before. I don't quite understand how the amp should affect it as long as there's room for the amp (and there is with the older brace).

Thanks again.

Bolstering the rear baffle with a brace will make the cabinet more inert. Do you have access to a 10mm hole saw? Drilling round holes might be less work than cutting squares.

 

[yonyz]

Bolstering the rear baffle with a brace will make the cabinet more inert. Do you have access to a 10mm hole saw? Drilling round holes might be less work than cutting squares.

I have found a video that illustrates how to make "pocket cuts" by first using a drill to drill holes at the corners of the squares. I do have a drill.

I have just ordered the BASH 300s, it should arrive in two weeks or so and then I'll continue with the shopping list, since the other items can be purchased locally.

I'll then go to a carpenter and we'll see if it's a lot cheaper to just buy the MDF panels and the two with holes in them, since cutting holes with a jigsaw doesn't sound too fun.

Edit:

Apparently the same eBay seller from whom I bought the amp, also sells the Fmod filters. I wonder which of these would be better (if any)?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Harrison-Labs-FMOD-70Hz-100Hz-HP-Hi-Pass-Satellite-Electronic-Crossover-USA-/371594282303

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Harrison-Labs-FMOD-70Hz-HP-High-Pass-Satellite-Electronic-Crossover-USA-Made-/371594281990

 

[rojo]

I have found a video that illustrates how to make "pocket cuts" by first using a drill to drill holes at the corners of the squares. I do have a drill.

I have just ordered the BASH 300s, it should arrive in two weeks or so and then I'll continue with the shopping list, since the other items can be purchased locally.

I'll then go to a carpenter and we'll see if it's a lot cheaper to just buy the MDF panels and the two with holes in them, since cutting holes with a jigsaw doesn't sound too fun.

Edit:

Apparently the same eBay seller from whom I bought the amp, also sells the Fmod filters. I wonder which of these would be better (if any)?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Harrison-Labs-FMOD-70Hz-100Hz-HP-Hi-Pass-Satellite-Electronic-Crossover-USA-/371594282303

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Harrison-Labs-FMOD-70Hz-HP-High-Pass-Satellite-Electronic-Crossover-USA-Made-/371594281990

Well, I think if heavy bass at higher volumes stresses your mids, a 100Hz filter is more likely to help that than a 70Hz filter. I'm confused about the auction for a 70/100Hz filter though. I don't know what that means.

 

[yonyz]

Well, I think if heavy bass at higher volumes stresses your mids, a 100Hz filter is more likely to help that than a 70Hz filter. I'm confused about the auction for a 70/100Hz filter though. I don't know what that means.

OK. I read somewhere that the effective cut off of a passive crossover depends on the input impedance of the amp. I recall that if the impedance is 10000, then the 70hz filter would actually cut the signal at around 87hz.

 

[yonyz]

Well, I think if heavy bass at higher volumes stresses your mids, a 100Hz filter is more likely to help that than a 70Hz filter. I'm confused about the auction for a 70/100Hz filter though. I don't know what that means.

The seller hasn't shipped my amp yet, so there's still time to ask.
Do I need a high pass for the subwoofer as well, to prevent it from trying to produce frequencies it cannot produce adequately?

Also, I wanted to add a miniDSP at some point, but I've come to understand that it would replace my DAC, which I have received a mere month ago. My current DAC is an SMSL M8. Will I lose anything by switching to the DAC of the miniDSP, and what are your thoughts about selling the DAC to get a receiver vs selling it to get a miniDSP?

Thanks.

 

[rojo]

The seller hasn't shipped my amp yet, so there's still time to ask.
Do I need a high pass for the subwoofer as well, to prevent it from trying to produce frequencies it cannot produce adequately?

Also, I wanted to add a miniDSP at some point, but I've come to understand that it would replace my DAC, which I have received a mere month ago. My current DAC is an SMSL M8. Will I lose anything by switching to the DAC of the miniDSP, and what are your thoughts about selling the DAC to get a receiver vs selling it to get a miniDSP?

Thanks.

For your sub needing a subsonic filter, I guess it depends on how loud you turn up your sub, and how much content it attempts to play below 20Hz. I doubt you'll need one.

Re: receiver vs. miniDSP vs. DAC, it really depends on whether you want to replace your active monitors with passive bookshelf speakers. Unless you spend a lot of money on a receiver that has pre-amp outputs (like a mid-level Marantz receiver), a receiver wouldn't connect to your current speakers. Re: miniDSP vs. DAC, a miniDSP would certainly give you more flexibility to flatten room response peaks and dial in a house curve, but you would also need a calibrated measurement microphone. Learning to measure your room's response and correct it takes a lot of reading, trial and error, and patience. But, if you enjoy gadgets, the miniDSP can be a fun gadget. Here is a tutorial for Room EQ Wizard, a freeware measurement program whose measurements can be imported into the miniDSP. My advice is for you to try the DAC first. You can change your mind later if you're unable to dial in a smooth blend between your monitors and your sub. But spending $0 is usually better than spending $200 if you can still achieve a satisfactory result with $0.

 

[everettT]

A subsonic filter like thishttps://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.minidsp.com/applications/advanced-tools/linkwitz-transform&ved=0ahUKEwjGzbvhp5TOAhWKmx4KHTmRCccQFggbMAA&usg=AFQjCNGeaQKVnLLiltz2mSZyd91DHu9cnQ&sig2=lwsBZ9ai6I3HALZnHiRICg
Can be input into the minidsp

 

[yonyz]

For your sub needing a subsonic filter, I guess it depends on how loud you turn up your sub, and how much content it attempts to play below 20Hz. I doubt you'll need one.

Re: receiver vs. miniDSP vs. DAC, it really depends on whether you want to replace your active monitors with passive bookshelf speakers. Unless you spend a lot of money on a receiver that has pre-amp outputs (like a mid-level Marantz receiver), a receiver wouldn't connect to your current speakers. Re: miniDSP vs. DAC, a miniDSP would certainly give you more flexibility to flatten room response peaks and dial in a house curve, but you would also need a calibrated measurement microphone. Learning to measure your room's response and correct it takes a lot of reading, trial and error, and patience. But, if you enjoy gadgets, the miniDSP can be a fun gadget. Here is a tutorial for Room EQ Wizard, a freeware measurement program whose measurements can be imported into the miniDSP. My advice is for you to try the DAC first. You can change your mind later if you're unable to dial in a smooth blend between your monitors and your sub. But spending $0 is usually better than spending $200 if you can still achieve a satisfactory result with $0.

There's no free option here. If I decide that I won't be getting a receiver or miniDSP soon, I'll have to buy the hi pass FMOD filter for about $30. Also, I won't get a miniDSP or a receiver before I sell my DAC (should I decide to sell it).

So budget receivers don't have pre-amp outputs? That's weird.
As for the miniDSP vs a dedicated DAC, what I meant to ask is - will the miniDSP's DAC be noticeably inferior in quality compared to a dedicated DAC, and pretty much the same question regarding the DAC that is built-in on budget or midrange receivers.

And lastly, receivers have room correction capability too, right?

EDIT: Bought the FMOD 70/100hz, it has two modes so it should do for now.